Misconception of Naruto's final rasenshurikens

[Punk Hazard]

You posted "yin," dumb@ss. :|

And? Yeah, I was mistaken on that part, but the rest of what you said about how the listing doesn't mean he has just Yang is what I'm disagreeing with.

 

[VongolaX]

And? Yeah, I was mistaken on that part, but the rest of what you said about how the listing doesn't mean he has just Yang is what I'm disagreeing with.

You can disagree all you want, it's already written in the databook a yin yang origins section.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can disagree all you want, it's already written in the databook a yin yang origins section.

And the databook also classifies Naruto as having Yang, but no Yin.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Your theory is most likely to be true, but there is one big "but" in this matter.

The Databook states that Naruto in Rikudou Mode has domain over Yang and the five elements, but not over Yin (as Sasuke).

His Yin-Yang release is referred to his the capacity to use Yang Release, since only few ninjas can do this.

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Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo)

Sage technique/Ninjutsu used by Naruto. Most of this page is too blurry to read, so I can only translate some of it.

The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of Shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.

From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of Chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosophical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.

← Top caption says that the caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).

→ Second caption says, "Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!"

← Third caption says, "His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchūriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!"

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Important side not form a translator:

---

Actually, the databook states pretty explicitly that almost nobody can use Yin-Yang Release. At best, they only use a basic, rudimentary fragment of that power.

Actual Yin-Yang Release seems to pretty much be restricted to people who have obtained power similar to that of the Sage of Six Paths (namely Six Paths Senjutsu and the Rinnegan).

Keep in mind that the databook listing someone as having Yin Release and Yang Release doesn't mean they have Yin-Yang Release. Same as having Water and Wind doesn't mean they can use Ice.

 

[southern sun]

Your theory is most likely to be true, but there is one big "but" in this matter.

The Databook states that Naruto in Rikudou Mode has domain over Yang and the five elements, but not over Yin (as Sasuke).

His Yin-Yang release is referred to his the capacity to use Yang Release, since only few ninjas can do this.

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Moron! Read pages about yin-yang release, not about six paths senjutsu!

And the databook also classifies Naruto as having Yang, but no Yin.

And databook classifies Hashirama only as yang release user, while he able to use powerful genjutsu (yin)

 

[Mr Hiru]

Moron! Read pages about yin-yang release, not about six paths senjutsu!

And databook classifies Hashirama only as yang release user, while he able to use powerful genjutsu (yin)

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Can't you see the image of the elemental affinity? Where is the Yin? Naruto can only use the 5 elements with the beasts' help, and the Yang Release in his Six Paths Mode. That's clearly put in this page of the Databook.

The Databook spoke about Yin-Yang Release, and Naruto can't use it. He can only use Yang Release, but not Yin-Yang Release (Creation of All Things being the technique of this release).

The Databook also speaks about Yin release as the basis of some special techniques (genjutsu, Nara clan techniques, Yamanaka techniques), but as it is the basis of these techniques and not the full mastery of this release, then your argument is far from true.

Why? Try to put your feets to earth, the hand on your heart, and answer honestly if a basis usage of Yin Release (i.e. like the examples I gave before) would enable Naruto to do this...

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Did you forget that the Rasen Shuriken was the apice of any elemental technique?

Being able to use Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken was the ultimate form of wind ninjutsu, this implies that Naruto has affinity with the element.

Your statement has to imply that Naruto can use Yin element, but databook clearly states otherwise. And there, my case rests.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Databook states that Madara, Obito, and Naruto are the only ones with yin yang release (besides the Ootsuki family)

Naruto has yin yang release obviously, but what he used against Sasuke was just a fuuton Rasenshuuriken and a Gudodama Rasenshuuriken.

There's no basis for that, unlike Yin-Yang release, and in all honesty, it makes no sense. Sasuke cancelled out three gudoudamas before their final clash with his base susano'o no less. How would one make a difference, much less a single, basic bijuu bomb or a single, basic wind rasenshuriken? The gudoudamas are composed of all elements and already shapeable. What would be the point of just adding a little more wind to them? Meanwhile, we have Sasuke, whose Indra avatar is powered by all nine bijuu including Yang Kurama.

I'm happy you admit he has Yin-Yang release though.

Hmm I like your enthusiasm on the subject but one thing is working against you, and that's the look of the white Rashenshiriken. If it was pure yin/yang release, the centers would be pure white and pure black respectively.

If you look closely at the white one, however, it has a dark center.

Spoiler

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So again, I like the theory, but the image clearly shows the lighter one is simply a Giant Rasenshirken while the darker must then me assumed as a Biju Bomb Rasenshiriken. Again, I like the effort you made on this though.

Just to let you know, you're very patronizing and superficial Floydical.

Your theory is most likely to be true, but there is one big "but" in this matter.

The Databook states that Naruto in Rikudou Mode has domain over Yang and the five elements, but not over Yin (as Sasuke).

His Yin-Yang release is referred to his the capacity to use Yang Release, since only few ninjas can do this.

If it's referred to as "perfect use," it could imply the true, full Yin-Yang release.

Anyway, I don't really see how this third translation is working against me. It actually comes off as supporting me.

The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of Shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.

Actual Yin-Yang Release seems to pretty much be restricted to people who have obtained power similar to that of the Sage of Six Paths (namely Six Paths Senjutsu and the Rinnegan).

 

[Mr Hiru]

If it's referred to as "perfect use," it could imply the true, full Yin-Yang release.

Anyway, I don't really see how this third translation is working against me. It actually comes off as supporting me.

I understand your line of argumentation, but please don't overlook certain points of the translation. The person in charge of translation was emphatic when he spoke that having comprehension of all things doesn't mean to have mastery over the release.

Important side not form a translator:

---

Actually, the databook states pretty explicitly that almost nobody can use Yin-Yang Release. At best, they only use a basic, rudimentary fragment of that power.

Actual Yin-Yang Release seems to pretty much be restricted to people who have obtained power similar to that of the Sage of Six Paths (namely Six Paths Senjutsu and the Rinnegan).

Keep in mind that the databook listing someone as having Yin Release and Yang Release doesn't mean they have Yin-Yang Release. Same as having Water and Wind doesn't mean they can use Ice.

Truthseeker Orbs

Listed as just a Ninjutsu (not Kekkei Mōra), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independently. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely obliterate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta.

PS: I need to make a minor (okay, somewhat major) correction on the Truthseeker Orbs thing.

I accidentally translated the phrase shinra bansho as "creation of all things," but it actually means "all of creation" or "everything in the universe." It's not saying that they're using the Ninjutsu "Creation of All Things" to manipulate/control the Truthseeker Orbs, but rather that they're using "the power of the universe".

Kurama Mode

Stated to be the "complete version" of Nine Tails Chakra Mode, accomplished when Naruto and Kurama synch their hearts. It allows Naruto to use the most powerful secret abilities of the jinchuriki, like Biju Bomb and Biju Transformation.

So take in mind that your conception of "comprehension of all things" is far from being something related to Yin-Yang release.

And also

Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei

It has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a Kekkei Genkai, sealing technique.

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals. It rips a giant chunk of earth up and turns it into a heavenly body, becoming the Prison of Six Paths (六道の獄 Rokudō no Goku) that can capture all things (万物捕, "banbutsuto"). It's a sealing jutsu that can be used by individuals who awaken Six Paths Senjutsu. "Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive. This forms a heavenly body in the sky that can act as a prison for even a tailed beast. The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much Chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic satellite. It also describes it as a giant sealing stone (封印石 "Fuinseki"), which implies that Kishimoto took some inspiration from those giant "sealing stones" you sometimes see -- the big boulders with the Kanji inscribed on them, usually with the ceremonial ropes adoring them.

...in which case Sasuke had the Yin power and Naruto the Yang power. Sasuke could not use the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei alone, nor Naruto.

Another important point here, to tell that your last quote was the one who explains my point.

Actual Yin-Yang Release seems to pretty much be restricted to people who have obtained power similar to that of the Sage of Six Paths (namely Six Paths Senjutsu and the Rinnegan).

So, I'd respectfully ask you to not ignore the facts.

Finally, but not least important... the undeniable fact

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Naruto doesn't have Yin Release. So, as much as you want to imply things, the hard fact is that Naruto has domain over the 5 elements and Yang Release, and he could only use the Shadow Style when he used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei along with Sasuke.

 

[davidou]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

I understand your line of argumentation, but please don't overlook certain points of the translation. The person in charge of translation was emphatic when he spoke that having comprehension of all things doesn't mean to have mastery over the release.

That sounds incredibly subjective and unsupported to me. "Oh, yeah, well, CREATION of ALL THINGS isn't the same as POWER OF THE UNIVERSE." -_-

So take in mind that your conception of "comprehension of all things" is far from being something related to Yin-Yang release.

Actual Yin-Yang Release seems to pretty much be restricted to people who have obtained power similar to that of the Sage of Six Paths (namely Six Paths Senjutsu and the Rinnegan)."

??????

...in which case Sasuke had the Yin power and Naruto the Yang power. Sasuke could not use the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei alone, nor Naruto.

Going by the logic you're trying to convey here, Hagoromo had only Yang and Hamura had only Yin. Oh wait, Yin-Yang release and mastery over all the elements is a main technique of the Rinnegan and how Hagoromo created creation of all things, which Naruto also obtained through the gudou damas and his six paths senjutsu. -_-

Another important point here, to tell that your last quote was the one who explains my point.

Lol no it doesn't.

So, I'd respectfully ask you to not ignore the facts.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've used like a half a dozen goddamn sources over and over from the manga and databook alike saying the same thing, as well as examples of the use of the technique, yet here you are still denying and snarking at me. What do you want from me? My sanity?

Finally, but not least important... the undeniable fact

Naruto doesn't have Yin Release. So, as much as you want to imply things, the hard fact is that Naruto has domain over the 5 elements and Yang Release, and he could only use the Shadow Style when he used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei along with Sasuke.

So then why exactly did you agree with me in your first sentence, but now are completely against me? Make up your mind. By the way, six paths senjutsu Naruto is not mentioned in that and the Kurama he had in him throughout the fights with Madara, Kaguya and Sasuke was the Yin Kurama.

It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them.

This third translator doesn't seem very reliable if he's making mistakes, estimations and contradicting himself/herself.

Can't you see the image of the elemental affinity? Where is the Yin? Naruto can only use the 5 elements with the beasts' help, and the Yang Release in his Six Paths Mode. That's clearly put in this page of the Databook.

The Databook spoke about Yin-Yang Release, and Naruto can't use it. He can only use Yang Release, but not Yin-Yang Release (Creation of All Things being the technique of this release).

The Databook also speaks about Yin release as the basis of some special techniques (genjutsu, Nara clan techniques, Yamanaka techniques), but as it is the basis of these techniques and not the full mastery of this release, then your argument is far from true.

Why? Try to put your feets to earth, the hand on your heart, and answer honestly if a basis usage of Yin Release (i.e. like the examples I gave before) would enable Naruto to do this...

Naruto possesses the six paths senjutsu and gudou damas from Hagoromo. That's all elements. Stop yammering and quibbling about things that contradict themselves.

Did you forget that the Rasen Shuriken was the apice of any elemental technique?

Including Yin-Yang release, granted in the gudou damas.

The word you're looking for is apex by the way. *Apices is the plural to it.

Being able to use Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken was the ultimate form of wind ninjutsu, this implies that Naruto has affinity with the element.

And he used the same technique with every other element with his six paths senjutsu against Kaguya. Your point?

Your statement has to imply that Naruto can use Yin element, but databook clearly states otherwise. And there, my case rests.

Yes, you said I was right from the beginning and agree that he has Yin-Yang release. Case closed. Lols.

 

[Mr Hiru]

That sounds incredibly subjective and unsupported to me. "Oh, yeah, well, CREATION of ALL THINGS isn't the same as POWER OF THE UNIVERSE." -_-





??????



Going by the logic you're trying to convey here, Hagoromo had only Yang and Hamura had only Yin. Oh wait, Yin-Yang release and mastery over all the elements is a main technique of the Rinnegan and how Hagoromo created creation of all things, which Naruto also obtained through the gudou damas and his six paths senjutsu. -_-



Lol no it doesn't.



I'm not ignoring anything. I've used like a half a dozen goddamn sources over and over from the manga and databook alike saying the same thing, as well as examples of the use of the technique, yet here you are still denying and snarking at me. What do you want from me? My sanity?



So then why exactly did you agree with me in your first sentence, but now are completely against me? Make up your mind. By the way, six paths senjutsu Naruto is not mentioned in that and the Kurama he had in him throughout the fights with Madara, Kaguya and Sasuke was the Yin Kurama.



This third translator doesn't seem very reliable if he's making mistakes, estimations and contradicting himself/herself.



Naruto possesses the six paths senjutsu and gudou damas from Hagoromo. That's all elements. Stop yammering and quibbling about things that contradict themselves.



Including Yin-Yang release, granted in the gudou damas.

The word you're looking for is apex by the way. *Apices is the plural to it.



And he used the same technique with every other element with his six paths senjutsu against Kaguya. Your point?



Yes, you said I was right from the beginning and agree that he has Yin-Yang release. Case closed. Lols.

...quite bad way to ignore things, man... harsh. I won't keep reading this thread.

It's clear that you ignored that those with Yin-Yang release had BOTH rinnegan and senjutsu of six paths, and that Naruto only had Yang Release in the Databook.

Keep that attitude up. Until then, bye.

 

[Floydical]

Spoiler

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Just to let you know, you're very patronizing and superficial Floydical.

What does that panel do to prove my point wrong? I like that you don't even respond to my points and simply insist on claiming I feel superior. Thing is, you're the one making assumptions in your "theory", which holds little water in reality. If you took insult to my comment, as you always seem to do, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

What does that panel do to prove my point wrong? I like that you don't even respond to my points and simply insist on claiming I feel superior. Thing is, you're the one making assumptions in your "theory", which holds little water in reality. If you took insult to my comment, as you always seem to do, then that's your problem, not mine.

The image depicts Hagoromo piecing out his Yin to the people and it possessing a black center, paralleling taoism as it was meant to. The symbol on Naruto's abdomen also depicts it. Your argument was that it should be pure white with absolutely nothing to support it other than your subjective, condescending word. I am not retarded, so do not speak to me as though I were. You have been proven wrong countless times by members of this forum and have never once admitted it, even when you had nothing left to support yourself. Always attempting to get the last word and using your petty, pointless, douchebag vocabulary to get under people's skin. Well it worked. Are you happy now? Good. Unfortunately, my "water" drowns and grinds the shit out of your unfounded generalizations and interpretations. If you can't accept that, "that's your problem, not mine."

...quite bad way to ignore things, man... harsh. I won't keep reading this thread.

It's clear that you ignored that those with Yin-Yang release had BOTH rinnegan and senjutsu of six paths, and that Naruto only had Yang Release in the Databook.

Your translation says "similar to the sage" not the same, and not requiring both.

Keep that attitude up. Until then, bye.

Don't tell me I ignore things and I won't give you an attitude lols.

 

[Meowazziel]

Spoiler

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Bijoudama Rasenshuriken.
It looks the same.

Its likely that Naruto threw a Fuuton Rasen Shuriken to counter the Raiton element of Sasuke's arrow and a Bijoudama Rasen Shuriken for extra power.

Not saying your yin and yang bijoudama's cant be true, but the black one looks basically the same as the bijoudama rasenshuriken that he threw in earlier chapters (see my link).

And why wouldnt he throw a yinyang Rasenshuriken in your link? Why a yin and a yang one?

 

[Zawerni]

Spoiler

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Bijoudama Rasenshuriken.
It looks the same.

Its likely that Naruto threw a Fuuton Rasen Shuriken to counter the Raiton element of Sasuke's arrow and a Bijoudama Rasen Shuriken for extra power.

Not saying your yin and yang bijoudama's cant be true, but the black one looks basically the same as the bijoudama rasenshuriken that he threw in earlier chapters (see my link).

And why wouldnt he throw a yinyang Rasenshuriken in your link? Why a yin and a yang one?

What is Hinata doing with that straw in her nose. That's not how it's done.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Your translation says "similar to the sage" not the same, and not requiring both.

It wasn't my translation, it was YOUR quote. And it clearly said "AND", ergo, both included.

It is not my fault that you have faulty interpretation of boolean logic. Learn the difference between AND and OR, NAND and NOR and XOR, then we can talk about being right and wrong about both included or only one of them.

Don't tell me I ignore things and I won't give you an attitude lols.

You clearly don't understand sarcasms. Whatever...

 

[Floydical]

The image depicts Hagoromo piecing out his Yin to the people and it possessing a black center, paralleling taoism as it was meant to. The symbol on Naruto's abdomen also depicts it. Your argument was that it should be pure white with absolutely nothing to support it other than your subjective, condescending word. I am not retarded, so do not speak to me as though I were. You have been proven wrong countless times by members of this forum and have never once admitted it, even when you had nothing left to support yourself. Always attempting to get the last word and using your petty, pointless, douchebag vocabulary to get under people's skin. Well it worked. Are you happy now? Good. Unfortunately, my "water" drowns and grinds the shit out of your unfounded generalizations and interpretations. If you can't accept that, "that's your problem, not mine."

Wow. First off, I have admitted I was wrong in the past, actually more than the average member I'd say, so that's just an outright lie on your part. You fail to admit that the Giant Rasen Shiriken look alike attack follows the trademark Rasengan look. That is my whole point with the dark center, it looks like every other Rasengan. So you simply 'theorizing' that's how a pure Yin attack would look is ludicrous. As I said in a past thread, the burden of proof is on you, not me. I simply can defend its a Rasengan and that's all I have to do. Its your argument that needs proving, and you're failing to do so thus far.

You know what the funniest thing about you arguing with me is? Every time I respond to your threads, I don't even realize its you making them. The only member's name I always notice is Minamoto. I came into this thread cause I saw it was interesting, read it without realizing who wrote it, and responded still not knowing. It wasn't until I saw your response to my comment that I realized it was you. Considering you take offense to most of my comments on your threads, that tells me that you are the douchebag that can't admit when he's wrong despite not having anything left to support himself with.

I came into the thread complimenting the OP but genuinely arguing the points at the same time. I meant no offense, considering I didn't even know what member I was responding to. Considering you have a pre-set reaction to my posts, it tells me no matter what I say you'll fight me over it. You essentially claiming I have a superiority complex just tells me you're threatened by other competent members on this base. If one person claims you're wrong and has evidence to support it, you're the one that stubbornly denies it.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Wow. First off, I have admitted I was wrong in the past, actually more than the average member I'd say, so that's just an outright lie on your part. You fail to admit that the Giant Rasen Shiriken look alike attack follows the trademark Rasengan look. That is my whole point with the dark center, it looks like every other Rasengan. So you simply 'theorizing' that's how a pure Yin attack would look is ludicrous. As I said in a past thread, the burden of proof is on you, not me. I simply can defend its a Rasengan and that's all I have to do. Its your argument that needs proving, and you're failing to do so thus far.

You know what the funniest thing about you arguing with me is? Every time I respond to your threads, I don't even realize its you making them. The only member's name I always notice is Minamoto. I came into this thread cause I saw it was interesting, read it without realizing who wrote it, and responded still not knowing. It wasn't until I saw your response to my comment that I realized it was you. Considering you take offense to most of my comments on your threads, that tells me that you are the douchebag that can't admit when he's wrong despite not having anything left to support himself with.

I came into the thread complimenting the OP but genuinely arguing the points at the same time. I meant no offense, considering I didn't even know what member I was responding to. Considering you have a pre-set reaction to my posts, it tells me no matter what I say you'll fight me over it. You essentially claiming I have a superiority complex just tells me you're threatened by other competent members on this base. If one person claims you're wrong and has evidence to support it, you're the one that stubbornly denies it.

I hope you're wrong, dude. If this is really the case, no matter how much reason I try to bring into the thread, he won't listen :/

 

[SkyGodHorus]

It looks the same.

Its likely that Naruto threw a Fuuton Rasen Shuriken to counter the Raiton element of Sasuke's arrow and a Bijoudama Rasen Shuriken for extra power.

Not saying your yin and yang bijoudama's cant be true, but the black one looks basically the same as the bijoudama rasenshuriken that he threw in earlier chapters (see my link).

Finally, someone who speaks to me like a human being and uses logic, reasoning and data without resulting to insults and generalizations. That's also a good point about the wind against the lightning and parallels the time when Yamato stated it was fortunate Naruto was a wind nature rather than an earth due to his future fight with Sasuke.

And why wouldnt he throw a yinyang Rasenshuriken in your link? Why a yin and a yang one?

Well, that's just how it looked like or how I interpreted it when I first read it as it looked so much like a parallel to the panel with hagoromo having the universal yin and yang in each of his hands and using the creation of all things technique to create the bijuus, which Obito explained. Furthermore, Yin yang release just sounded more up to par with Indra's arrow, considering it was infused with all the bijuus while a basic wind rasenshuriken and bijuu dama just doesn't sound that powerful compared to it, even when powered by the six paths senjutsu. Then of course there was the magnitude of the three hitting each other...

But, you've been reasonable, logical, courteous and even introduced some things I hadn't considered, so I'll throw the debate to you. Good work.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Finally, someone who speaks to me like a human being and uses logic, reasoning and data without resulting to insults and generalizations. That's also a good point about the wind against the lightning and parallels the time when Yamato stated it was fortunate Naruto was a wind nature rather than an earth due to his future fight with Sasuke.



Well, that's just how it looked like or how I interpreted it when I first read it as it looked so much like a parallel to the panel with hagoromo having the universal yin and yang in each of his hands and using the creation of all things technique to create the bijuus, which Obito explained. Furthermore, Yin yang release just sounded more up to par with Indra's arrow, considering it was infused with all the bijuus while a basic wind rasenshuriken and bijuu dama just doesn't sound that powerful compared to it, even when powered by the six paths senjutsu. Then of course there was the magnitude of the three hitting each other...

But, you've been reasonable, logical, courteous and even introduced some things I hadn't considered, so I'll throw the debate to you. Good work.

Too late. I already congratulated him way before you did xD