Misconception of Hagoromo’s composition

Animegoin

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People seem to believe that Hagoromo’s chakra is only Indra+Ashura and that by characters becoming the Juubi Jin, they are becoming like Jinchuriki Hagoromo. What they don’t seem to understand is that Hagoromo (both pre-Jinchuriki and post-Jinchuriki extraction) was always linked to the Juubi. Hagoromo’s entire existence relies on the Juubi’s chakra, which is half of his own chakra.

As Hagoromo said in the third panel, “I’m only able to emerge like this now because their chakra has finally become one.”

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Hagoromo’s chakra had to be reconstructed in its entirety for him manifest in the real, physical world. Therefore his composition regardless of if he’s a Jinchuriki or not is and has always been:
-Half Rinnegan chakra (Indra+Ashura)
-Half Juubi Senjutsu.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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well that answers why he didn't appear from madara's body back when madara was stuck in that cave. how does he have juubi chakra if the juubi appeared after his birth though?
 

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well that answers why he didn't appear from madara's body back when madara was stuck in that cave. how does he have juubi chakra if the juubi appeared after his birth though?
The Juubi and the Divine Tree are one, the Juubi is the weakened, fruitless and sentient Divine Tree. Hagoromo just inherited everything from Kaguya after she ate the fruit.
 

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so the fruit and tree have the same chakra composition or whatever it is that makes a chakra unique?
Yes and no, the tree stores all of the chakra until it creates a chakra fruit. After the chakra fruit is consumed, the tree is weakened and will start gathering chakra again to grow another fruit.

Hagoromo explained it:
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That is something most ignore.

Hogaromo had Indra(eyes/chakra/yin)/Ashura(body/yang/lifeforce) of Jyuubi and then it's senjutsu(he used it when he was fighting the Jyuubi).
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He was likely diluted like Obito was without the full chakra of it, which is why at that time he didn't have TSBs.

The only thing that bothers me is, whether he had the Rinnegan at the time of sealing. By filler he does, by canon it's not clear.
 
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minamoto

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That is something most ignore.

Hogaromo had Indra(eyes/chakra/yin)/Ashura(body/yang/lifeforce) of Jyuubi and then it's senjutsu(he used it when he was fighting the Jyuubi).
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He was likely diluted like Obito was without the full chakra of it, which is why at that time he didn't have TSBs.

The only thing that bothers me is, whether he had the Rinnegan at the time of sealing. By filler he does, by canon it's not clear.
get urself ready we r gonna start a tobidara clan groupe..
 
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Animegoin

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That is something most ignore.

Hogaromo had Indra(eyes/chakra/yin)/Ashura(body/yang/lifeforce) of Jyuubi and then it's senjutsu(he used it when he was fighting the Jyuubi).
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He was likely diluted like Obito was without the full chakra of it, which is why at that time he didn't have TSBs.

The only thing that bothers me is, whether he had the Rinnegan at the time of sealing. By filler he does, by canon it's not clear.
Nothing but facts 🙌👌
 
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While what you say makes sense, I still have some misgivings about it:

1. Firstly, I have always interpreted that scan of Hagoromo needing Indra/Asura/Kurama to manifest in the real world a bit differently from how you are interpreting it.

You are interpreting it as being that Hagoromo = Indra + Asura + juubi, which is why Kurama's chakara was necessary and not just Indra + Asura.

I on the other hand, interpret it as Hagoromo having done something special to Kurama or added some of his own chakara or essence to Kurama's (and not the other bijuus) upon the creation of the bijuus. This special thing or this added chakara would have allowed Hagoromo to use Kurama's chakara as a portal or a connector of sorts so that Hagoromo could manifold in the real world after his death (provided the Indra + Asura requirement is met). Allow me to explain why I think this way:

We clearly see that there is something special and unique about Kurama and his chakara that is different from the other bijuus. This can be seen by looking at jinchuuriki transformations. Why is it that only Kurama's jinchuuriki get the golden bijuu mode and KCM while the jinchuuriki of other bijuus (1 - 8) can only turn into true flesh replicas of their bijuu? Why does a Kurama bijuu mode and KCM have rikudou-esque markings on the body while the other bijuus modes don't? This cannot just simply be the result of Kurama being stronger than the others or having more chakara (because simply having more chakara shouldn't give you unique powers/modes). Clearly, Hagoromo did something rikudou related to Kurama.

By the way, we know that the reason behind KCM/BM isn't due to Naruto being Asura's transmigrant because Minato got the same mode even without being a transmigrant.

2. If what you are saying about Hagoromo's composition is true, then why would it be Indra/Asura/Kurama that lets Hagoromo come out instead of Indra/Asura/juubi? Once again, why just Kurama? If just any bijuu would suffice, then Hagoromo would have simply said that he needed Indra + Asura + bijuu chakara to manifest. However, he said specifically Kurama (which lends more credibility to my notion that something special was done to Kurama). You may be thinking that it is because Kurama's chakara is a significant part of the juubi's, but keep in mind that an individual bijuu's chakara alone is not the same as the juubi's chakara. The juubi's chakara is the amalgamation of all 9 bijuus' chakara (not just Kurama's).

I have some more reasons behind my misgivings (pertaining to different types of rikudou chakara and the differences between the juubi's chakara and Hagoromo's chakara, and also some things about rikudou senjutsu), but this post is getting kind of long. I might post the rest later.
 
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Animegoin

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While what you say makes sense, I still have some misgivings about it:

1. Firstly, I have always interpreted that scan of Hagoromo needing Indra/Asura/Kurama to manifest in the real world a bit differently from how you are interpreting it.

You are interpreting it as being that Hagoromo = Indra + Asura + juubi, which is why Kurama's chakara was necessary and not just Indra + Asura.

I on the other hand, interpret it as Hagoromo having done something special to Kurama or added some of his own chakara or essence to Kurama's (and not the other bijuus) upon the creation of the bijuus. This special thing or this added chakara would have allowed Hagoromo to use Kurama's chakara as a portal or a connector of sorts so that Hagoromo could manifold in the real world after his death (provided the Indra + Asura requirement is met). Allow me to explain why I think this way:

We clearly see that there is something special and unique about Kurama and his chakara that is different from the other bijuus. This can be seen by looking at jinchuuriki transformations. Why is it that only Kurama's jinchuuriki get the golden bijuu mode and KCM while the jinchuuriki of other bijuus (1 - 8) can only turn into true flesh replicas of their bijuu? Why does a Kurama bijuu mode and KCM have rikudou-esque markings on the body while the other bijuus modes don't? This cannot just simply be the result of Kurama being stronger than the others or having more chakara (because simply having more chakara shouldn't give you unique powers/modes). Clearly, Hagoromo did something rikudou related to Kurama.

By the way, we know that the reason behind KCM/BM isn't due to Naruto being Asura's transmigrant because Minato got the same mode even without being a transmigrant.

2. If what you are saying about Hagoromo's composition is true, then why would it be Indra/Asura/Kurama that lets Hagoromo come out instead of Indra/Asura/juubi? Once again, why just Kurama? If just any bijuu would suffice, then Hagoromo would have simply said that he needed Indra + Asura + bijuu chakara to manifest. However, he said specifically Kurama (which lends more credibility to my notion that something special was done to Kurama). You may be thinking that it is because Kurama's chakara is a significant part of the juubi's, but keep in mind that an individual bijuu's chakara alone is not the same as the juubi's chakara. The juubi's chakara is the amalgamation of all 9 bijuus' chakara (not just Kurama's).

I have some more reasons behind my misgivings (pertaining to different types of rikudou chakara and the differences between the juubi's chakara and Hagoromo's chakara, and also some things about rikudou senjutsu), but this post is getting kind of long. I might post the rest later.
I disagree that your notion more credible but the answer to your question is indeed as simple as Kurama undoubtedly having the most chakra of all of the bijuu. Half of Kurama is at least 5x‘s stronger than Gyuki, even KCM Naruto’s power was immaculate compared to Bee’s V1 & 2 transformations. Kurama having the most chakra makes him the most akin to the Juubi, hence his 9 tails. That’s also why Naruto and Minato both took on Juubi jin-esque features when using their BCM cloaks. Additionally that’s why the bijuu had to be gathered and sealed within the Mezo in order because Kurama‘s power dwarfs all of the others. Even Ashura had an avatar that resembled Kurama after he inherited Hagoromo’s power.

Another aspect to look at is Kurama’s life force power, which caused Minato’s wood constructs grow leaves. It’s like as the Mezo itself and the Juubi. In any case, Hagoromo specifically mentioning the 10 tails and Kurama when speaking relatively proves me correct.
Post automatically merged:

The opening was worded incorrectly, I fixed it.
 
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I disagree that your notion more credible and to the is indeed as simple as Kurama undoubtedly having the most chakra of all of the bijuu. Half of Kurama is at least 5x‘s stronger than Gyuki, even KCM Naruto’s power was immaculate compared to Bee’s V1 & 2 transformations. Kurama having the most chakra makes him the most akin to the Juubi, hence his 9 tails. That’s also why Naruto and Minato both took on Juubi jin-esque features when using their BCM cloaks. Additionally that’s why the bijuu had to be gathered and sealed within the Mezo in order because Kurama‘s power dwarfs all of the others.

Another aspect to look at is Kurama’s life force power, which caused Minato’s wood constructs grow leaves. It’s like as the Mezo itself and the Juubi.
I can't really agree that simply having more chakara would yield six paths esque properties, even if the amount of chakara dwarfs that of the other bijuus.

We never see characters gain entire modes or new properties just from the quantity of chakara. It is generally the type of chakara that grants new powers and features (not the quantity).

Examples:

We see several characters gain modes such as sage mode or curse mark modes from the acquisition and utilization of natural energy, which is a different type of energy than normal chakara. We never see someone just suddenly gain sage mode or a curse mark mode from simply having a lot of chakara.

Another example is how we see jinchuuriki gain special cloaks and modes from using bijuu chakara, which is a different type of chakara from normal chakara. Even non-jinchuuriki have manifested bijuu cloaks when given some bijuu chakara (referencing when Naruto gave the alliance cloaks). Of course, no non-jinchuuriki shinobi is going to manifest a bijuu cloak just by simply having a lot of chakara. This is another example of how the type of chakara grants new powers and modes, and not the quantity.

Another example is with six paths chakara. We have seen six paths chakara do things such as turn raiton techniques black (and more powerful), and allow a person to actually attack limbo. Simply having large quantities of regular chakara won't yield these results.

We even see this concept with dojutsu since it takes a special type of chakara released from an Uchiha's brain to awaken the sharingan (an effect that cannot be achieved simply by having large quantities of chakara).

The overarching pattern here seems to be that type of chakara yields new modes and powers rather than quantity.

Having said that, I would see it as more likely that Kurama has those special qualities because of Hagoromo doing something to him rather than simply having more chakara than the other bijuus.

Besides, like I said before, if what you say is true then it would still make more sense for him to say Indra + Asura + juubi.

Edit:
It is also worth noting that Kurama's modes are similar to Asura's mode (who possessed rikudou chakara) and Asura wasn't even a jinchuuriki.
 

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I can't really agree that simply having more chakara would yield six paths esque properties, even if the amount of chakara dwarfs that of the other bijuus.

We never see characters gain entire modes or new properties just from the quantity of chakara. It is generally the type of chakara that grants new powers and features (not the quantity).

Examples:

We see several characters gain modes such as sage mode or curse mark modes from the acquisition and utilization of natural energy, which is a different type of energy than normal chakara. We never see someone just suddenly gain sage mode or a curse mark mode from simply having a lot of chakara.

Another example is how we see jinchuuriki gain special cloaks and modes from using bijuu chakara, which is a different type of chakara from normal chakara. Even non-jinchuuriki have manifested bijuu cloaks when given some bijuu chakara (referencing when Naruto gave the alliance cloaks). Of course, no non-jinchuuriki shinobi is going to manifest a bijuu cloak just by simply having a lot of chakara. This is another example of how the type of chakara grants new powers and modes, and not the quantity.

Another example is with six paths chakara. We have seen six paths chakara do things such as turn raiton techniques black (and more powerful), and allow a person to actually attack limbo. Simply having large quantities of regular chakara won't yield these results.

We even see this concept with dojutsu since it takes a special type of chakara released from an Uchiha's brain to awaken the sharingan (an effect that cannot be achieved simply by having large quantities of chakara).

The overarching pattern here seems to be that type of chakara yields new modes and powers rather than quantity.

Having said that, I would see it as more likely that Kurama has those special qualities because of Hagoromo doing something to him rather than simply having more chakara than the other bijuus.

Besides, like I said before, if what you say is true then it would still make more sense for him to say Indra + Asura + juubi.
Kurama’s immense chakra and life force are what makes him the most akin to the juubi, it’s not that hard to understand really. There’s literally no other reason that can be proven as to why Naruto and Minato have Rikudou horn-like hair, tomoe on their collars and chest area, and golden aura while in KCM & BCM. Even after Naruto obtained the chakra of all bijuu and gained RSM, he still appeared almost exact the same as if he only had Kurama’s chakra.

As opposed to Hagoromo, who’s always in RSM, he looks like a Juubi Jinchuriki and every Juubi Jin (even pseudo Jin’s) have the 9 tomoe and Rinnegan that are featured on Hagoromo’s back. That in itself tells you that Hagoromo was really relying on the 10 tails chakra, but Kurama is undoubtedly the largest composition of the Juubi‘s chakra. And just to remind you, Juubi Madara only had half of Kurama inside of him and that severed lower portion of Madara had even less. So that tells you how much power Kurama has.
 
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