Minato vs Jiraya

[NarutoX28]

Minato was also said to have Shunshin as fast as V2 E. Does he? Manga disagrees with that too.

Also Jiraiya doesn't have perfect HM. It's imperfect and he can't clearly sense as a Path surprised him. HM sensing is passive.

This is what we call a Retcon. Not even Ma and Pa displayed Sage Sensing during that fight despite Myoboku Toads having the natural ability of being able to draw in natural energy which is what increases one's sensing capabilities in the first place.

 

[Rιver]

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Manga doesn't disagree the notion of Sage Mode heightening one's Senses.

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Furthermore, Pa states that Sennin Mode raises both threat perception and attacking range and it's clear he is discussing about it in general. The Frog Katas is debatable within that statement as it's a skill that needs to be learned, but Sage Sensing isn't, esp. when the previous scan emphasizes how drawing in Natural Energy heightens one's senses, so it's not a skill that needs to be learned. It's a natural ability that's granted from Sage Mode.

Naruto =/= Jiraiya. Naruto has the SM Fukasaku is talking about. Jiraiya doesn't.

 

[Rιver]

Also Ma and Pa are not SM users are they? Since they are animals. So their sensing should not be passive like Narutos.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Also Ma and Pa are not SM users are they? Since they are animals. So their sensing should not be passive like Narutos.

:|

Don't know how to respond to this, not sure what more I can say.

 

[NarutoX28]

Also Ma and Pa are not SM users are they? Since they are animals. So their sensing should not be passive like Narutos.

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They are as they can mold Sage Chakra.

And no, using animal logic won't work when animals can't even sense Natural Energy in the first place whereas Gamakichi stated that Toads are able to sense Natural Energy around them and Pa as well stated that once you can draw in Natural Energy, you'll be able to sense it. It's similar to Natural Sensing that sensors such as Karin, C, Minato, and Tobirama have. They can't sense Chakra without the ability to knead Chakra. Same issue here, you can't sense Natural Energy without being able to manipulate Natural Energy.

 

[Rιver]

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They are as they can mold Sage Chakra.

And no, using animal logic won't work when animals can't even sense Natural Energy in the first place whereas Gamakichi stated that Toads are able to sense Natural Energy around them and Pa as well stated that once you can draw in Natural Energy, you'll be able to sense it. It's similar to Natural Sensing that sensors such as Karin, C, Minato, and Tobirama have. They can't sense Chakra without the ability to knead Chakra. Same issue here, you can't sense Natural Energy without being able to manipulate Natural Energy.

Yeah, using Senjutsu =/= having SM. Juugo also uses Senjutsu yet is not in SM. You can use Senjutsu and still not be in SM.

Also my question was not if they can use Senjutsu but the mode itself.

 

[NarutoX28]

Naruto =/= Jiraiya. Naruto has the SM Fukasaku is talking about. Jiraiya doesn't.

What are you talking about? Both have Frog Sage Mode. Nothing changes besides Jiraiya absorbing a bit too much Natural Energy rather than keeping it proportionate like Naruto does in comparison to his own Physical and Spiritual Energy.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Yeah, using Senjutsu =/= having SM. Juugo also uses Senjutsu yet is not in SM. You can use Senjutsu and still not be in SM.

Also my question was not if they can use Senjutsu but the mode itself.

The toads don't need sage mode, that's a human thing, they are toads so they just utilise senjutsu. Sage mode is human way of utilising senjutsu. The fact that Fukasaku uses frog kata and sage techniques means he's a sage. He can do everything a human toad sage can.

 

[Rιver]

The toads don't need sage mode, that's a human thing, they are toads so they just utilise senjutsu. Sage mode is human way of utilising senjutsu. The fact that Fukasaku uses frog kata and sage techniques means he's a sage. He can do everything a human toad sage can.

He had to absorb Natural Energy and balance it to gain strength so I doubt that.

 

[Rιver]

What are you talking about? Both have Frog Sage Mode. Nothing changes besides Jiraiya absorbing a bit too much Natural Energy rather than keeping it proportionate like Naruto does in comparison to his own Physical and Spiritual Energy.

But manga says otherwise man.

:/

 

[Gold Lightning]

He had to absorb Natural Energy and balance it to gain strength so I doubt that.

Yeah I know, but he doesn't enter sage mode like a human would by doing so. He gathers natural energy and then utilises it. So I guess for toads it's different. But for humans, sage mode is a sign that they are able to utilise nature energy.

Either way, doesn't matter. The toads are called sages, and they use senjutsu. Not sure what the argument even is anymore. They teach sage mode, how do they not know it.

 

[NarutoX28]

Yeah, using Senjutsu =/= having SM. Juugo also uses Senjutsu yet is not in SM. You can use Senjutsu and still not be in SM.

Also my question was not if they can use Senjutsu but the mode itself.

The source of Jugo's ability is Ryuchidou Cave which grants users Sage Mode, so yes, Jugo's ability is essentially Sage Mode.

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Yes, he's a Sage User. That's why Pa's explanation relates the augmentation that Natural Energy has on one's capabilities to kneading Sage Chakra as that's what grants Sage Mode in the first place.

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Not to mention Jiraiya concedes to Ma being superior in using Sage Mode in comparison to Jiraiya.

 

[NarutoX28]

But manga says otherwise man.

:/

Well, you convinced me. ....

 

[Draegod]

No, that's something you made up, it's said to nullify contracts. It's called a "contract" seal for a reason. Not "direct control seal breaker". Kuramas contract was formed via genjutsu, so that's what minatos seal broke.

Or do you think Minato learned that technique for the sole purpose of one day coincidently fighting an uchiha who can control beasts.

They also respect Minato. Point?

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Keiyaku Fuuin (contract sealing)
Ninjutsu, sealing jutsu
Volume 53, page 155
A sealing justu used by Minato to nullify a contract with the Kyuubi. In order to retrieve the stolen Kyuubi from Obito, he aimed his right hand at his opponent’s heart, and immediately completed the seal.

No, You clearly made what you are stating up! It was never stated nor hinted to make the summon turn on the user or go "Poof". So like i stated; Breaking the contract would do nothing unless you have proof besides teh databook and manga since it never states other wise.

 

[Vanto]

Holy shit.

Anyway, so huh, Minato wins this, mid-diff judging by the words.

 

[Gold Lightning]

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No, You clearly made what you are stating up! It was never stated nor hinted to make the summon turn on the user or go "Poof". So like i stated; Breaking the contract would do nothing unless you have proof besides teh databook and manga since it never states other wise.

thank you for posting a scan that I already have direct access to, which doesn't help you at all. You're telling me it doesn't work on contracts, and saying what I said is never stated (even though it's common sense). Meanwhile what you've said is never stated either.

I never said it makes a summon turn on the user. I said it's a contract seal that nullifies contracts. Breaking the contract means summoner no longer has access to the summon, meaning their link will be broken. I don't need proof, it's in the name. "Contract Seal". It works on contracts.

It's called a contract seal for a reason, meaning anything with a contract will be nullified. It's as straight forward as that. It's naive of you to even remotely believe that the technique only works on summons controlled by genjutsu, that's a little too specific and coincidental.

 

[Gein]

My boy Jiraiya didn't raise no fool, Minato wins with a simple mark placed on Jiraiya.

 

[ARGUS]

Minato is at a level above Jiraiya,
he wins all scenario mid diff at most

 

[Haizaki]

Also Ma and Pa are not SM users are they? Since they are animals. So their sensing should not be passive like Narutos.

No one wants to sig this? Anyone?

 

[NarutoX28]

No one wants to sig this? Anyone?

He's a good debater. I don't think it's right just to spite someone for having a misconception about something.