I could go on and on about how you are wrong but if you have any question then ask. But make sure you're more specific. U_U
If you've read the manga, you'd know what all of them are capable of. I'm specifically talking about you not knowing what these people are capable of. No one cares about your fantasy "Oh, they might be able to do this and that". We go by manga evidence. Manga evidence makes tobirama and Hiruzen non factors. These two literally can't get past the Tbb/Tenpechii tanking abilities of kyuubi avatar but they can do anything? Just stop.
So, you know there's a big difference, yet you're spouting so much nonsense? One of the strongest hokage, powered up by one of the strongest beasts will be on par with tobirama/hiruzen? lol...?
Now I'm convinced you don't know what you're talking about at all. Alive minato has never ever ever been hit in this manga. But, please, bring in scans of juubi jins -- who can keep up with the 8th gate -- to debunk this claim. I'm sure you'll also be able to convince us that hiruzen/tobirama can reproduce those feats when they couldn't keep up with sm madara. I'll wait, don't worry.
Seriously, Just stop... Tobirama has shown comparable if not inferior feats to alive minato, let alone minato under BM influence. Anyone who thinks for one second would realise minato was in shell shock half the time while fighting obito. You're trying to say minato's intelligence is off the scale, dips to below moron levels when he sees obito, then flies back off the scale against madara, yet you can't clearly see the guy was in shock? What intelligence feat has tobirama shown? Analysing that Senjutsu worked against obito? Even naruto figured that out. Minato figured out the exact range of the omnyoudon orbs. Minato was called a
once in a lifetime genius, tobirama has no such moniker or hype. Saying he's comparable in intelligence is understandable, saying he's smarter is just laughable.
>Comparable reaction. Based on what? He got manhandled by juubito and SM madara.
>more raw power. Based on what? Kibaku fuda? That's literally the most destructive jutsu he's shown and hiruzen could outrun the jutsu. Minato's oodama rasengan shattered gojou defence and was the size of the kyuubi. This raw power claim is baseless.
Did I say hiruzen was a non factor because minato's faster? You're calling people idiot's yet you're the biggest dumbass here. Look, I'll say it slow, so learn to read please. Hiruzen AND tobirama are non factors because;
a) Base minato's stronger -> Hiruzen was stated to be stronger than the previous kage(at least tobirama for sure), yet hiruzen hinted base, alive minato was stronger than him on many occasions
b) Minato is boosted by the massive power of BM mode.
Do you understand english now? BM minato is out of these guy's league. Saying he's in their league is like saying base naruto and BM naruto are in the same league. No. Base minato was in their league, BM naruto blew past it and made them near irrelevant.
tl;dr; You just brought up some useless bullshit about speed that I never mentioned. Kudos.
No, go on, because everything you said there was wrong. Complete and utter rubbish. But, please, come back with more 'evidence' of how tobirama and hiruzen are factors. This time, please use manga fax to tell us how they;
a) Survive a point blank TBB teleported to their back by someone leagues faster than them
b) get past the Kyuubi avatar
c) Hit or sneak up on minato when he has comparable sensing to Tobirama + BM's danger sensing + short bursts of SM sensing
d) Hit minato when he can teleport their attacks away with his hands, his body, his cloak, his kunai or an S/T barrier. In other wards, he can throw their attacks back at them with anything in his arsenal.
e) Assist hashirama in any which way when their best defence, tobirama's ftg, is inferior to minato's.
Now, I didn't ask you what hashirama can do, I'm asking you what tobirama and hiruzen can do to make them factors.