Minato Itachi & kakashi vs hashirama & 3 tomoe obito

[Owarij]

Zetsu (Hashirama's clone) is a sensor, naturally Hashirama would be a sensor as well. He'll be able to sense Kamui coming before its used just like Nagato sensed Amaterasu coming then he can either obstruct Kakashi's line of vision or he can use a replacement jutsu, or he can blend with his Mokuton clones.

Eh, no, you can't make that conclusion.. Is hashirama able to eat human bodies as well? no
Amaterasu Causes a change in the atmosphere.It starts getting hotter.. Kamui and other ms techniques do not

not only this , but he has no knowledge of it in the first place

 

[KidGamer65]

Eh, no, you can't make that conclusion.. Is hashirama able to eat human bodies as well? no
Amaterasu Causes a change in the atmosphere.. Kamui and other ms techniques do not

not only this , but he has no knowledge of it in the first place

That's because of Zetsu's composition, all his abilities come from Hashirama.

Mayfly-Madara has it, or something similar to it, Madara got his Mokuton abilities from Hashirama.

Mokuton-From Hashirama.

Sensors will still be able to sense the build up of chakra or chakra change when the jutsu is about to be used. Just like Karin was able to sense Danzo's chakra everytime he used Izanagi.

The only abilities that probably didn't come from Hashirama came from Zetsu's odd composition. Where else would he get the ability to sense from?

Actually he does have knowledge so he can simply mix with Mokuton Clones or hide in the ground.
From OP: info all

 

[Owarij]

That's because of Zetsu's composition, all his abilities come from Hashirama.

Mayfly-Madara has it, or something similar to it, Madara got his Mokuton abilities from Hashirama.

Mokuton-From Hashirama.

Sensors will still be able to sense the build up of chakra or chakra change when the jutsu is about to be used. Just like Karin was able to sense Danzo's chakra everytime he used Izanagi.

The only abilities that probably didn't come from Hashirama came from Zetsu's odd composition. Where else would he get the ability to sense from?

Actually he does have knowledge so he can simply mix with Mokuton Clones or hide in the ground.
From OP: info all

I just listed something... zetsu can eat bodies, and hashirama wouldnt be able to because he's a human..
Implanting someone's dna doesnt give you their sensor skills.., that would be so if all senju dna gave you sensory skills.. but it doesnt..

Danzo had hashirama dna and was not a sensor.. Tobi has half hashirama dna and was not a sensor.. he didnt even notice kakashi used kamui on clone naruto RIGHT infront of him..

I can list several things that dispute this

Just noticed the info all , which only means that kakashi will use kamui before he can attempt such a tactic.. if the ninja knows that he can enter the ground and fight there.. why would they waste time and allow him to do it? we've seen kakashi can activate ms and us kamui in the blink of an eye... he sent away sasuke's susanno arrows moments before impact..

We've also seen that when faced with a tough opponent , possibly out of his league.. (madara/ tobi), he wouldn't hesitate to use kamui on him at the beginning

 

[garas56]

Minato holds Hashirama Till Kakashi and Itachi deals with Obito
Pousibly Obito Lose Cous he is dumb And wuld be cought on an Traps that Itachi and Kakashi makes
Hashirama is high deal but Minato has Ftg So he can hold Hashi busy and when Itachi and Kakashi cames Hashirama is Killed.Kamui and Ftg can be used We know that minato is gud at seals Or use Itachis Genjutsu or susano.
So team 1 Wins Hard/Extream dificulity.

 

[OnPoint]

I take it that by 3 tomoe Obito, you're referring to Obito as he was before his Mangekyō was revealed, yes?

Once Hashirama performs his Moku Bunshin technique, he and Obito will be at an advantage. It would seem that only an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan user can see through this Jutsu [

You must be registered for see links

], and as such, the likelihood of Kakashi being successful in landing a fatal Kamui shot is reduced drastically. The Moku Bunshin is one of those Jutsu which remains menacing even with full knowledge for the opponent, because you'll never be able to distinguish between the ever durable clones and the original. We also have to wonder how effective Kakashi would be in trying to warp a large area or group of clones, since we know that Obito is capable of cancelling Kakashi's technique if he's fast enough in reacting to it, as we've already seen once before [

You must be registered for see links

].

Shodai has an incredible amount of experience fighting with the Uchiha and their ocular powers. He will not fall to Tsukuyomi, particularly with full knowledge. Since Obito can casually see through any illusions with his sharingan, it'd be pointless for Itachi to even attempt any form of Genjutsu on him. The former will also be free to alert the 1st to any Genjutsu he may be caught in. From what we've seen, Obito was able to handle Minato's Hiraishin up to v1, only being caught out by v2 because of a lack of knowledge and by being relatively inexperienced. Any member of team Kakashi could be finished by Obito's near instant warp, particularly if explodes from the ground to lay a hand on them. The only reason that Naruto wasn't lolstomped by such a tactic was because of his ability to sense negative emotions [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Neither Itachi, Minato or Kakashi possess any of the required sensing abilities which may've improved their chances of reacting in such a circumstance, although Obito's chakra can't be sensed when his body is in his pocket dimension anyway. The risk of being defeated like so is very high considering the three of them would also be engaged with multiple Mokuton doppelgangers; they won't even be able to give their full attention to looking out for Obito. None of them can exhaust Obito's five minute intangibility, and the three of them, if engaged by Hashirama's techniques aswell, won't be able to overcome him easily in CQC. Let's remember that Obito, with nothing more than the Gunbai and Kamui, was able to easily troll the combined efforts of Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and Bee [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

].

With Hashirama's large scale Wood Release, Minato's kunai (and any subsequent seals which may've placed in the environment) will be effortlessly displaced [

You must be registered for see links

]. He won't be able to arrange a set of markings which he could use to bamboozle either Obito or Shodai, and will be limited to v2 Hiraishin (which would eventually run out). No-one on the initial team has the kind of firepower needed to annihilate these kind of Jutsu. Not even Amaterasu, which taxes Itachi heavily, would be enough to trouble Shodai, who can easily regrow his forests or simply eliminate the black flames from the equation [

You must be registered for see links

]. Hashirama can have some clones merge with the trees and provide intel regarding his opponents via telepathy [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Summons can either be crushed with Jukai Kōtan [

You must be registered for see links

], quelled by the Mokuryū [

You must be registered for see links

] or slaughtered with Mokuton Sashiki from the master of Wood Release [

You must be registered for see links

]. Minato's Hiraishin isn't quick enough the allow him to escape a bloodlusted warp [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. The manga has also implied that the only way in or out of that dimension is through the use of Kamui.

Kakashi and Itachi's stamina/chakra reserves leave alot to be desired. Hashirama and his team mate's are among the best in the manga. If the situation calls, Obito can always resort to using the complete Izanagi to pick off anyone who lets their guard down, even for an instant. Hashirama can continue creating Moku Bunshins and hounding his opponents with the Wood Style. If any of them are restrained by Shodai's Wood Release, their chakra can be absorbed as happened to Kisame. What'll happen if the 1st's Bringer of Darkness Genjutsu is used? They'll be pretty much finished. You must grab your opponent to end it, but how'll that happen when both Obito and Hashirama are able to freely move into the ground? Random Mokuton spikes erupting from the floor will effortlessly bypass Itachi's Susano'o and kill him. It would be too easy for Obito, unaffected by the technique, to move in and warp his now blind opponents.

Hashirama and Obito, 10/10.

 

[TobisPawn]

Hashirama can potentially solo Team 1. Adding in Obito makes it overkill.

Hashirama , CANNOT, solo team one... This is what I mean.. people are overating his hype.. he was really high kage level, but that's it...
He has no known counters for something like kakashi's long range kamui...

If he's really high kage level, then any other kage wouldn't even be kage level. Madara said Hashirama would trash the current Gokage, so in no way is his hype overrated.

 

[EliteKakashi]

I take it that by 3 tomoe Obito, you're referring to Obito as he was before his Mangekyō was revealed, yes?

Once Hashirama performs his Moku Bunshin technique, he and Obito will be at an advantage. It would seem that only an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan user can see through this Jutsu [

You must be registered for see links

], and as such, the likelihood of Kakashi being successful in landing a fatal Kamui shot is reduced drastically. The Moku Bunshin is one of those Jutsu which remains menacing even with full knowledge for the opponent, because you'll never be able to distinguish between the ever durable clones and the original. We also have to wonder how effective Kakashi would be in trying to warp a large area or group of clones, since we know that Obito is capable of cancelling Kakashi's technique if he's fast enough in reacting to it, as we've already seen once before [

You must be registered for see links

].

Shodai has an incredible amount of experience fighting with the Uchiha and their ocular powers. He will not fall to Tsukuyomi, particularly with full knowledge. Since Obito can casually see through any illusions with his sharingan, it'd be pointless for Itachi to even attempt any form of Genjutsu on him. The former will also be free to alert the 1st to any Genjutsu he may be caught in. From what we've seen, Obito was able to handle Minato's Hiraishin up to v1, only being caught out by v2 because of a lack of knowledge and by being relatively inexperienced. Any member of team Kakashi could be finished by Obito's near instant warp, particularly if explodes from the ground to lay a hand on them. The only reason that Naruto wasn't lolstomped by such a tactic was because of his ability to sense negative emotions [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Neither Itachi, Minato or Kakashi possess any of the required sensing abilities which may've improved their chances of reacting in such a circumstance, although Obito's chakra can't be sensed when his body is in his pocket dimension anyway. The risk of being defeated like so is very high considering the three of them would also be engaged with multiple Mokuton doppelgangers; they won't even be able to give their full attention to looking out for Obito. None of them can exhaust Obito's five minute intangibility, and the three of them, if engaged by Hashirama's techniques aswell, won't be able to overcome him easily in CQC. Let's remember that Obito, with nothing more than the Gunbai and Kamui, was able to easily troll the combined efforts of Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and Bee [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

].

With Hashirama's large scale Wood Release, Minato's kunai (and any subsequent seals which may've placed in the environment) will be effortlessly displaced [

You must be registered for see links

]. He won't be able to arrange a set of markings which he could use to bamboozle either Obito or Shodai, and will be limited to v2 Hiraishin (which would eventually run out). No-one on the initial team has the kind of firepower needed to annihilate these kind of Jutsu. Not even Amaterasu, which taxes Itachi heavily, would be enough to trouble Shodai, who can easily regrow his forests or simply eliminate the black flames from the equation [

You must be registered for see links

]. Hashirama can have some clones merge with the trees and provide intel regarding his opponents via telepathy [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Summons can either be crushed with Jukai Kōtan [

You must be registered for see links

], quelled by the Mokuryū [

You must be registered for see links

] or slaughtered with Mokuton Sashiki from the master of Wood Release [

You must be registered for see links

]. Minato's Hiraishin isn't quick enough the allow him to escape a bloodlusted warp [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. The manga has also implied that the only way in or out of that dimension is through the use of Kamui.

Kakashi and Itachi's stamina/chakra reserves leave alot to be desired. Hashirama and his team mate's are among the best in the manga. If the situation calls, Obito can always resort to using the complete Izanagi to pick off anyone who lets their guard down, even for an instant. Hashirama can continue creating Moku Bunshins and hounding his opponents with the Wood Style. If any of them are restrained by Shodai's Wood Release, their chakra can be absorbed as happened to Kisame. What'll happen if the 1st's Bringer of Darkness Genjutsu is used? They'll be pretty much finished. You must grab your opponent to end it, but how'll that happen when both Obito and Hashirama are able to freely move into the ground? Random Mokuton spikes erupting from the floor will effortlessly bypass Itachi's Susano'o and kill him. It would be too easy for Obito, unaffected by the technique, to move in and warp his now blind opponents.

Hashirama and Obito, 10/10.

Excellent post. I'm gonna go through a couple things though.

While Obito can react to and cancel Kakashi's kamui, him being distracted by Minato or Itachi(or both) while Kakashi attempts to take out the first could prevent him from doing so. It's not illogical to assume Kakashi would resort straight to kamui on Hashirama, given he has the complete knowledge of him and would know what he's capable of. He also knows his kamui is not necessary to defeating Obito, as Minato is on his team. Knowing this, he could throw pretty much whatever amount of chakra he wants in to the kamui and warp Hashirama at a nearly-instant speed. He would obviously go with just warping the head, as warping the entire body would allow Obito to rescue him. Obito also made the remark that if he didn't keep secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. What that implies in battle, I'm not quite sure, but one could think Itachi would know of a way to defeat him with the knowledge.

Giving Itachi, Kakashi and Minato, arguably the top 3 tacticians in the Narutoverse(Shikaku and Shikamaru obviously having a case as well) full knowledge of their opponents techniques makes it a bit more difficult than you seemed to let on in your post. Kakashi has

You must be registered for see links

and shown numerous times that if he has knowledge on a technique, it will not work on him. Some examples being

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

.

Now, it goes without saying, knowing how a technique works doesn't always give you the ability to counter it, but with this team, Kakashi's plans(and I'm giving him the "leader" role here, only because he has the most feats in regards to countering/analyzing techniques, Itachi and Minato are just as good as him, but lack the number of feats), I feel they could give Hashi and Obito a run for their money. Kakashi can also rescue people from kamui's dimension, but he could obviously only do that a couple of times before he runs out of chakra.

As far as Bringer of Darkness goes, Kakashi's nindogs could nullify that, but if the fight has drug on that far(unless Hashi just starts off with it), I don't think team 1 has a chance.

But the only way for victory is if Hashirama is taken out from the start, which is possible given Minato and Itachi can distract Obito as Kakashi takes care of Hashirama's head.

Given Obito's knowledge of the technique, it's a good possibility he simply stays close to Hashirama just to protect him from the kamui, and lets him do the majority of the fighting, and only once he's took control of the battlefield, he springs in to action. Hashi/Obito win more times than not, but I don't see a 10/10 happening due to the combined intelligence of team 1 and kamui's ridiculous strength.

 

[OnPoint]

Excellent post. I'm gonna go through a couple things though.

While Obito can react to and cancel Kakashi's kamui, him being distracted by Minato or Itachi(or both) while Kakashi attempts to take out the first could prevent him from doing so. It's not illogical to assume Kakashi would resort straight to kamui on Hashirama, given he has the complete knowledge of him and would know what he's capable of. He also knows his kamui is not necessary to defeating Obito, as Minato is on his team. Knowing this, he could throw pretty much whatever amount of chakra he wants in to the kamui and warp Hashirama at a nearly-instant speed. He would obviously go with just warping the head, as warping the entire body would allow Obito to rescue him. Obito also made the remark that if he didn't keep secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. What that implies in battle, I'm not quite sure, but one could think Itachi would know of a way to defeat him with the knowledge.

Thanks.

It depends on the mindset really. If he's bloodlusted, then it's true that he could one-shot the first with Kamui. The OP, however, didn't mention the participants mindset, so I tended to keep everyone in character. Perhaps full knowledge would mean Obito turns both himself and Hashirama intangible (but touching him) right at the start, as to avoid being ruined by a Kamui gg. And once Moku Bunshins are used, Kakashi isn't really going to be that effective in the fight, particularly if Hashirama decides to keep himself hidden and send out wave after wave of clones. If the three of them are engaged by masses of clones, I doubt that they'll pressure Obito as much as Kakashi, Naruto, Bee and Gai did during the war (since the latter set were able to focus all their attention on this one foe).

Obito mentioned that he would've been killed at that very moment by Itachi's surprise assassination attempt had he not kept secrets from him. There was no mention of him being defeated in a one on one fight. It was more implying that Itachi should've chosen a different technique to try and surprise Obito with.

Giving Itachi, Kakashi and Minato, arguably the top 3 tacticians in the Narutoverse(Shikaku and Shikamaru obviously having a case as well) full knowledge of their opponents techniques makes it a bit more difficult than you seemed to let on in your post. Kakashi has

You must be registered for see links

and shown numerous times that if he has knowledge on a technique, it will not work on him. Some examples being

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

.

Now, it goes without saying, knowing how a technique works doesn't always give you the ability to counter it, but with this team, Kakashi's plans(and I'm giving him the "leader" role here, only because he has the most feats in regards to countering/analyzing techniques, Itachi and Minato are just as good as him, but lack the number of feats), I feel they could give Hashi and Obito a run for their money. Kakashi can also rescue people from kamui's dimension, but he could obviously only do that a couple of times before he runs out of chakra.

Full knowledge won't let them see through Hashirama's Moku Bunshin technique. It won't allow them to sense Obito's whereabouts if he turns intangible. It won't even allow them to counter his near insta-warp considering that even with Hiraishin, Minato would've succumbed to the speed of the technique. Sometimes, raw power is more essential than anything else. Jinton or the like would've boosted team Kakashi's chances considerably, because they would've been able to immediately eliminate one variable (Hashirama's clones). It won't be easy for team Hashirama, of course not, but I think they should definitely be considered the favourites. I think having full knowledge benefits them more, since they possess the techniques that can't simply be overcome with full knowledge.

As far as Bringer of Darkness goes, Kakashi's nindogs could nullify that, but if the fight has drug on that far(unless Hashi just starts off with it), I don't think team 1 has a chance.

But what if Hashirama conceals himself within the ground? How will they find him?

But the only way for victory is if Hashirama is taken out from the start, which is possible given Minato and Itachi can distract Obito as Kakashi takes care of Hashirama's head.

Ultimately, it'll depend on the mindset of the participants. Bloodlusted vs IC. But if it is indeed the latter, Hashirama and Obito's chances should be much higher.

Given Obito's knowledge of the technique, it's a good possibility he simply stays close to Hashirama just to protect him from the kamui, and lets him do the majority of the fighting, and only once he's took control of the battlefield, he springs in to action. Hashi/Obito win more times than not, but I don't see a 10/10 happening due to the combined intelligence of team 1 and kamui's ridiculous strength.

I personally just don't see them withstanding a Bringer-of-Darkness/Kamui combo or the raw power of the 1st Hokage. If Shodai uses the technique, then Obito is free to warp them immediately, since they'll be completely blind. They'll be under constant pressure from Mokuton clones and map redrawing techniques.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Itachi and Kakashi and Minato all get one shotted by the flower world unless you can tell me how they deal with it.

what is this overrating of a tech thats failed every time its been used? onoki resisted it with ease, and kakashi has similar willpower. also we have no idea how hashi fights or whether he'd use it the way madara has.

Hashirama is a sensor as his weaker clones, Zetsu, are sensor

zetsu has techs no one else has. like spores and mayfly

Susanoo doesn't block out air

it blocked out acid mist or sasukes face would have melted vs mei

Hashirama doesn't even need to look at Itachi or any of his opponents to beat them. He doesn't even need to get anywhere near them, He makes the Flower World and then its over.

1. sharingan would see it coming
2. its never worked in a fight. its failed twice. if its as OP as you say, madara should be dead at VOTE. no one said hashirama isnt near them.

Its a Mokuton jutsu that exhales pollen that makes you sleep.

itachis genjutsu can do the same thing if he wants AND its faster

He'll be able to sense Kamui coming before its used just like Nagato sensed Amaterasu coming

how will he know what it is? kamui first appeared in the presence of hashirama's lovechildren wiht madara not hashi himself. even if the stipulations give him intel only one person can counter kamui and live and thats obito.

Intel is full anyway so Hashirama would know about Kamui, easily allowing him to blend with his Mokuton Clones so Kakashi can't locate him.

can he do that faster than the time it takes kakashi to look at him? and if not him then itachi with his tsukiyomi or minato with RDS?

That's because of Zetsu's composition, all his abilities come from Hashirama.

nowhere is this stated. sakura said they can use weaker mokuton and the clone thing. but obviously they have other stuff. black zetsu's far stronger and more versatile than the white one

Karin was able to sense Danzo's chakra everytime he used Izanagi.

she sensed it decrease when an eye closed.

Once Hashirama performs his Moku Bunshin technique,

hes dead before that, also we havent seen him use it so for all we know its nowhere near an essential part of his fighting style since we dont know his style

It would seem that only an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan user can see through this Jutsu

madara fought hashirama before EMS. so an MS is more than enough.

Shodai has an incredible amount of experience fighting with the Uchiha and their ocular powers.

hes fought one of them, who has a fighting style nothing like kakashi's or itachi's and is much dumber than they are

He will not fall to Tsukuyomi, particularly with full knowledge

he doesnt have much choice. unless he closes off his eyes entirely theres no staying away from itachis eyes or fingers

Since Obito can casually see through any illusions with his sharingan, it'd be pointless for Itachi to even attempt any form of Genjutsu on him

wheres he shown this?

Let's remember that Obito, with nothing more than the Gunbai and Kamui, was able to easily troll the combined efforts of Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and Bee

except this is two people who have successfully hit obito and another who he seemed afraid of having full intel (and now he does)

Not even Amaterasu, which taxes Itachi heavily, would be enough to trouble Shodai, who can easily regrow his forests or simply eliminate the black flames from the equation [

i thought it caused agonising pain, so much so that thinking is impossible much less an elaborate counter? i like how people change how ammy works according to the fight. if your supporting itachi its invincible. if not, then its worthless.

Hashirama can have some clones merge with the trees and provide intel regarding his opponents via telepathy

impossible till you show me him using that and not zetsu

Minato's kunai (and any subsequent seals which may've placed in the environment) will be effortlessly displaced

you do know he can just summon gamabunta and smash the wood? or place markings on his allies so kakashi can just send him to the other dimension and murder obito there?

Minato's Hiraishin isn't quick enough the allow him to escape a bloodlusted obito

except it has. twice

Hashirama and his team mate's are among the best in the manga.

and yet you can show absolutely no evidence of this since hashirama ahsnt been seen fighitng let alone test his chakra reserves

Kakashi and Itachi's stamina/chakra reserves leave alot to be desired.

never needed much. their techs are one hit kill

Hashirama can continue creating Moku Bunshins and hounding his opponents with the Wood Style. If any of them are restrained by Shodai's Wood Release, their chakra can be absorbed as happened to Kisame

you mean the same kisame who broke it in a near death state no problem? and no he cant "continue" making mokubunshins till we see him fight and do this. dont make powers up for someone whos featless

What'll happen if the 1st's Bringer of Darkness Genjutsu is used? They'll be pretty much finished

whatll happen? itachi reverses it back on hashirama. using a non paralysis genjutsu on the best genjutsu master in the series is like trying to break a rock with your finger

Random Mokuton spikes erupting from the floor

scans of hashirama thinking of this?

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Madara said Hashirama would trash the current Gokage, so in no way is his hype overrated.

whats hashiramas counter for jinton? and that IS overrating hype since no way would madara know exactly how hashi would go about fighting them without rinnegan

I personally just don't see them withstanding a Bringer-of-Darkness/Kamui combo or the raw power of the 1st Hokage.

what raw power? the same raw power thats failed in every single showing hes ever been in? the same raw power destroyed by onoki and narutos clones? the same raw power thats featless and hasnt done anything onscreen besides getting beaten time and time again?

Obito is free to warp them immediately, since they'll be completely blind

sharingan sees through such a low level genjutsu

what if Hashirama conceals himself within the ground?

what if the moons made of cheese? dont give people powers we know they dont have until they show it for themselves

Full knowledge won't let them see through Hashirama's Moku Bunshin technique.

MS does. only one other MS user existed in madaras era and he died