Minato and Itachi (KidGamer65) vs. Nagato (Zexion~)
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It would be high difficulty, my reasoning is in the spoiler.
Minato would need to set up markings in case of CT, which can be done via Shadow Bunshin. Itachi literally negates all of Nagato's techniques via v4 Susano'o, Asura is useless as stated, normal ST isn't busting it, Animal Path and linked vision have already canonically been bested by Itachi, the only threats here are CST and CT, of course.
With Itachi or Susano'o tagged, and the markings already being set in place by the clones, they are teleported to safety, not to mention v4 w/ YM would probably only sustain heavy damage by CST and the user inside would still be alive, the Susano'o would just diminish.
Minato gives Itachi his tagged Kunai and Itachi uses a full body Amaterasu to engulf Nagato as a distraction (Nagato either goes to absorb it or repel it) if he uses the latter, he loses his only chance of survival from this assault. Itachi can proceed to use the Kunai in order to close in on Nagato, having a Ribcage or even his v4 (considering Susano'o is physically connected to the user), Totsuka's large extension makes up for any other distance and pierces Nagato.
Sorry if I'm intruding with the explanation here, but I doubt Zexion has a counter for your post and you asked anyway so I decided i'd post my two cents.
With Itachi or Susano'o tagged, and the markings already being set in place by the clones, they are teleported to safety, not to mention v4 w/ YM would probably only sustain heavy damage by CST and the user inside would still be alive, the Susano'o would just diminish.
Minato gives Itachi his tagged Kunai and Itachi uses a full body Amaterasu to engulf Nagato as a distraction (Nagato either goes to absorb it or repel it) if he uses the latter, he loses his only chance of survival from this assault. Itachi can proceed to use the Kunai in order to close in on Nagato, having a Ribcage or even his v4 (considering Susano'o is physically connected to the user), Totsuka's large extension makes up for any other distance and pierces Nagato.
Sorry if I'm intruding with the explanation here, but I doubt Zexion has a counter for your post and you asked anyway so I decided i'd post my two cents.
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Lol KG i mean this was truly unbalanced.
Imagine Itachi's high level shurikenjutsu, but this time, the shurikens or kunais have FTG markings on it. There are so many things this combo can do.
EDIT; And the outside markings aren't even needed.
To make this straight; This is unballanced with the outside markings. Without them then its a high diff for the duo
Imagine Itachi's high level shurikenjutsu, but this time, the shurikens or kunais have FTG markings on it. There are so many things this combo can do.
EDIT; And the outside markings aren't even needed.
To make this straight; This is unballanced with the outside markings. Without them then its a high diff for the duo
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Tbh I forgot the ****ing mountain wasn't destroyed by CST when the crater was made.
Don't know why people are hating counter will be up tommorow, if you want to use the outside markings...meh
If not cool mang
Edit-You're using the ones even outside the leaf villlage.....Didn't think you would go that low man.
Don't know why people are hating counter will be up tommorow, if you want to use the outside markings...meh
If not cool mang
Edit-You're using the ones even outside the leaf villlage.....Didn't think you would go that low man.
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TRE MERCER
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KidGamer65
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I didn't tell you to accept those conditions. But my argument hasn't made them a staple so I won't use them. They aren't needed.
KidGamer65
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The argument I listed only suggests outside markings for one CST's counters, and that counter doesn't even work with CT. And yes, there are other ways to counter that doesn't require Minato to have markings out of range already.
Funny thing is he can just set them himself.
KidGamer65
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I edited my post. It's in there. CST fails against Minato and Itachi solely because of how it works, and it's even easier to counter than CT.
KidGamer65
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Not even making this one fancy looking
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Its a crater so he has no way to place the kunai above the level they are fighting on
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the crater extends highly,keep that in mind.:lol
I'll admit its offensive powers aren't much of a threat to Minato, however its versatility is incredibly heplful in this fight. In your opener you try and take advantage of Nagato's ST cooldown with the form of Kunai often, i'll adress it here and later on tell you to refer back.
As we know the Asura path allows the user to create multiple
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as well as multiple
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, Nagato also conviently has mastery over all 5 elements with the Rinnegan and has shown the use of Fuuton in canon
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instead of using ST and wasting it to block incoming FTG Kunai, Nagato can spawn multiple faces and using Asura path and then resort to blowing them away with fuuton from ALL ANGLES as the faces are in all directions, logically prime Nagato's fuuton should be even stronger than the one shown however even it will suffice in blowing away the kunai Minato attempts to throw at Nagato, he can keep the body variation up throughout the fight and even gives him a 360 view as a benefit, along with multiple arms (to perform the handsigns for the fuuton, should you argue that). Also I believe later on you tried to make the claim that a kunai slash would be enough to take down Nagato? I'm trying to take a less insults approach to this debate but you're making it hard. You stated that a Kunai would be enough to take down Nagato knowing he has access to the Asura path which has already tanked a full blown raikiri
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and don't forget that along with the asura path, he also has access to the Naruka path which was shown to already be able to fully heal the damage RAIKIRI caused Asura
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which basically means that even if Minato some how lands a hit on Nagato its not proving to be fatal.Translation for Asura path, I bolded the parts to make sure you don't try and state Nagato can't full body Asura.
One last thing for Asura, his chakra laser was able to absolutely obliterate large structures with a single blow
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, if used from Nagato's arm it could most likely destroy Kunai in certain Area's. AKA Destroying Minato's FTG spots for teleportation, yes he can throw more (although i'm sure he's limited) however its much harder to cover area's when in the midst of battle than at the start especially against someone who can throw so many things at you such as Nagato. When was this established? He's already been shown to use preta path while moving
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As well as showing the ability to use it along with different path abilities
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As long as he stays in relative distance to the Susano'o he'll be fine, not like Itachi can do much anyways.
Refer above,
Worst case scenario Nagato uses an ST to blow them both backwards along with any FTG Kunai near him, meaning no taking advantage of the cooldown.
He doesn't need to use S/T,
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Panda shield works fine, blocked Jiraiya's faster techinque from arguably the same distance the Susano'o would provide. Might cut off Preta's connection with Susano'o (it really won't take that long to absorb it, as it absorbed a larger technique insanely fast
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) but it also stops any FTG blitz and any other blitz as well due to Nagato still having a view of both of them (panda eyes) any shunsin blitz is also futile.Dying by a Kunai is false, and how could they rinse and repeat if Nagato knows what they're going to do? All of this is based on if Nagato even tries to absorb Susano'o which he doesn't really have to Itachi can keep it active it for as long as he wants. Even a healthy Itachi will run out of chakra which Susano'o drains rapidly.
Naraka's Healing + Asura's enhanced durability means that nothing these guys throw at him really can take him down. (Add in Preta too of course)
Can counter summons if you ever try to go down that road, but wouldn't call it completely useless.
Comparing Kabuto's cruddy control over three summons to Nagato's mastery over plenty more? If Nagato keeps Cerberus split up along with his other summons that is far too many for him to block with his kunai, not to mention he'd have the bird in the sky giving an aerial view of the entire battle thanks to the open location. He'd have to resort to Amertarasu which again lessens chakra significantly (should it be used on all cerberuses) and is questionable if it could strike a flying bird which he won't be directly in front of like he was before
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Might be a zoomed out view but keeping the bird high enough to avoid amertarasu and kunai means he constanlty will know where the other two are, although it is a crater so he mostlikely should anyways due to Asura's 360 vision.Susano'o would be BT'd into Preta of course, should Nagato take this strategy
What blind spots? I didn't know Itachi could curve Kunai to strike behind Nagato from directly in front of him, but even then Asura's vision denies that notion. Also as I said if he does this Fuuton blows away the Kunai, so any blitz attmept via FTG kunai is futile. Also just going to point out that Nagato's BT is a bit stronger than pains
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, if the movement Kakashi had was allowed Naruto could have thrown a FRS or merely struck the boulder himself, however he had to resort to spawning a new arm which was unaffected by the force directly, this also proves that he can use BT on two things at once btw.Since when has the notion of YM repelling attacks been proven? Especially something such as a force, Sasuke wasn't "knocked on his arse" when he threw explosions at it
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and ST is perfectly usable from that distance. Susano'o would tank the damage sure but it would still be effectively pushed by an ST of this calber
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Susano'o is a construct with incredibly durability, but just like it couldn't withstand the force of attraction, it can't withstand this one either so it would still be moved by an ST, which means at a worse case scenario Itachi would be pused back from Nagato, should that ever need to be arranged.Unless Itachi's used up his 5 FTG Kunai, which you have him throwing out quite a lot, and i've shown its not really needed to deflect Kunai.
People don't realize that Obito coudln't react because he had already made himself tangible to touch Minato, and clearly had no clue he was going to use the Kunai to FTG
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, hence his surprise
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wasn't the most intellegent shinobi back then. Here Nagato will know what an FTG Kunai means, and can easily use ST to halt an FTG blitz should a Kunai reach close enough honestly, unless Minato gets one not visible to Nagato but with the aerial bird, and the 360 vision by Asura that's a hard feat. Nagato/Pain was never blitzed while ST was viable, only during the cooldown. Minato's reactions require him to physically move, whereas Nagato's is purely mental, as long as he's not caught off guard by a Kunai like Obito was he can react. However that is worst case scenario as all FTG kunai are being repelled VIA Fuuton.
Except you're forgetting Asura's boosters along with levitation, a controlled Nagato was able to catchup to Bee after using a large ST on him
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with flight alone, add Asura's booster
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and once Minato teleports to within Susano'o Nagato can take flight which honestly renders any blitz from happening during the cooldown. If you think he can't levitate during the cooldown than take into account Asura's propelling ability
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it can be applied to himself via multiple arm spawning, backed with the part of the DB translation Meaning he can even spawn a hand closer to his feet allowing him to propel himself, he'd be up there longer than 5 seconds so the cooldown would be over with, all this is happening while Minato and Itachi are still falling backwards so he will have the time to do so as he was able to spawn body parts quick enough to catch Bee.
How would he mark somewhere out of the crater at the begining of the fight? It would be quite a process one Nagato won't be allowing him to do, homing missiles force him to keep avoiding via FTG.
You leave no explanation for what happens if he uses it in between the two? Large enough to encompass Minato's Kunai but smaller than the original. Anyways what were to happen should he strike Minato with a CST when he tries to blitz? During the times you used "teleporting into Susano'o" as an escape plan? He'd be crushed instantly and since Nagato doesn't have to build up like pain does he has no way of knowing when CST is about to be used.
Minato has no idea when CST is going to be used, especially if Nagato takes the air before hand regardless, which I had him do. So basically Nagato uses the wide spread one, as you said Minato has no counter for it and is thus crushed (hell if he uses the concise CST Minato STILL has no way to interpret what is coming so he can't FTG out of it like you stated), Itachi may be able to tank it (he's not reflecting shit until you show proof, as Manga has showed that nothing is reflected by the shield) however Nagato doesn't really need Deva's powers for Itachi, at least to survive for five minutes preta absorbs mostly everythign other paths keep him at bay, once 5 minutes is endured an enhanced CST destroys Itachi who can't FTG like Minato could.
So you saying full intel means he knows the EXACT range of the attraction by CT? And he's going to be able to calculate it perfectly and place a kunai perfectly outside the range? Even if he did have the time it is unlikely, Nagato will force him to retreat backwards via FTG and never give him the chance.
Why are you having him make clones when he can do that himself? Merely skews his focus. How is Minato marking the crows before they converge to form the clone without Nagato who has a sight advantage knowing..... Not to mention Nagato doesn't need to look Itachi in the eye to use ST :lol and I've shown how his durability protects him from a kunai.
With Fuuton being able to repel FTG Kunai from multiple angles, Asura's Durability + Naraka's Healing, Preta and Deva/Asura's aerial abilities to escape a pinch the duo are left with next to nothing to harm Nagato with. Wheras CST takes out Minato regardless, and would eventually take out Itachi. Not to mention your counter to CT is neraly non existant.
Nagato takes this.
Sennin of Logic
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When I saw Minato and Itachi together against Nagato, I thought this was going to be an easy stomp, let alone all the kunais Minato's ever set up. Zexion's actually putting up a fight in this debate. (still think the team wins though)
KidGamer65
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Lol. What?
-Forgetting Ninja can run on walls.
-Forgetting Minato can throw his Kunai over the hill.
-Forgetting that there is a marking right on top of his statue. Above the crater.
-Forgetting he has toads that can jump far far far higher than that crater's height.
So yes, he can place Kunai wherever he pleases.
You did not just make Fuuton a staple in your argument........
1. Nagato spawning multiple faces doesn't let him use the jutsu from all angles. The jutsu come from his hands, and his hands can't spawn perfectly in all directions. Thus it'll be harder for him to deflect Kunai from every single angle. The simple fact that it's a directional blast of wind is enough to show that he can't send Kunai from all angles back when his linear blasts of wind can't cover a 360 degree radius and when his hands don't spawn on every angle of his body.
-Minato and Itachi can throw Kunai faster than he can deflect with Fuuton.
-Itachi can get them into his blindspots and divert them around the Fuuton, which is a burst of wind from the hands of the opponent. Nothing to do with the mouth or the face.
1. Asura Path did not tank Raikiri. You can see it pierce into it's body :lol It was only strong enough to protect Deva long enough for him to use Shinra Tensei and deflect Kakashi's attack. Doesn't need to be able to tank the attack to act as a buffer for less than 5 seconds.
2. That was straight to Asura Path's torso. Thickest and most durable part of any humanoid structure. If Minato strikes Nagato in his neck, he dies. If not, he just substitutes with a Rasengan and then he dies anyway. Nagato has no feats that let him react to Minato's blitz so any thoughts of absorbing it are wasted so please don't try and argue that he can.
Naraka Path is useless since an instant kill=Nagato can't initiate the jutsu. You can try and argue that he takes a Kunai slash to the neck using Asura failing to tank a Raikiri to the torso as evidence, but Rasengan kills him and there are no ifs, ands or buts about that.
Those explosions couldn't even completely destroy those buildings it hit despite the buildings being over half it's size. The energy per area is too low for it destroy a metal Kunai that is only a fraction of those buildings and is pound for pound more durable than those buildings.
If Nagato is in front of Susanoo, trying to absorb it. Why would he move from that position? Lmao. Moving away means breaking the absorption. "As long as he stays in relative distance to the Susanoo" doesn't make sense as a counter when that doesn't help him against any incoming attack from Minato, as he's practically in the same location.
The above counter doesn't help. If he's absorbing Susanoo, he's close to Itachi no matter what position he's in. Thus Minato will be able to teleport to him. The only way Nagato does the bold is if he opts to blow Itachi away instead of sit there trying to absorb his Susanoo, because there is no "blowing Minato AND Itachi back" as he can't react to Minato's blitz.
I really hope that we aren't going to start hyping Nagato's nonexistent reflexes again.
Then that takes me back to Itachi's weapons skills. He either directs the Kunai close enough to Nagato so that Minato can teleport, or Minato simply teleports to the panda, marks it and then attempts to go around it.
And lol. I hope you aren't serious with the bold. Goemon taking up a more widespread area than Susanoo doesn't mean that Goemon contains more chakra than Susanoo. I really hope you aren't going to claim that it does. Not to mention he'd have to absorb it and kill Itachi faster than Minato can teleport, which he can't do.
Panda shield is easily countered as it's only useful once. If he tries it again, he dies for the simple fact that Minato marked it, allowing him to teleport to it and anything in close proximity to it, which would be Nagato, as Hiraishin
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In fact, nothing is stopping him from teleporting to Nagato regardless of the panda blocking the Kunai due to how close together they are.-Dying by a Kunai isn't false. Dying by Rasengan isn't either.
-How is Nagato knowing what they are going to do going to stop them from doing it? Better yet, how is it going to let Nagato counter? It's not. That's how.
Lol the stamina route? As a counter for a strategy that gets performed near the start of the fight? Itachi never once ran out of chakra against Hebi Sasuke despite using MS and having an illness. The illness draining his stamina is what killed him in the end. Give normal level stamina to someone like that and it's pretty clear that dropping dead from Susanoo before Nagato gets beaten isn't happening. Ever.
Naraka only works if you are alive after the attack, and Asura's enhanced durability doesn't make him durable enough to take a Kunai straight to the neck, or a Rasengan the size of Naruto's Oodama Rasengan. Preta is useless since it's only viable usage gets Nagato killed in a heartbeat.
Not my duty to go down that road, but we'll see. 100% sure summons are useless here.
Kabuto's control wasn't bad, not to mention his "control" over the summons has literally nothing to do with it's abilities functioning or not, sounds more like an excuse tbh. Amaterasu canonically one shotted the Cerberus. There is no "splitting apart" after getting hit. Only one shot is needed for the Cerberus.
And unless you think the bird will fly high enough to the point where Itachi can't even see it, we can forget about the bold. Not to mention the bird has to start on the ground and work it's way up. Amaterasu takes it out in an instant, then the Cerberus gets it's treatment.
If he does, then he dies due to Rasengan or Kunai to the neck.
[
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]Achieved by hitting the Kunai off of each other to change their trajectory regardless of them being in mid air. Though I'll agree that Ashura Path's mutli face function lets him see it, doesn't let him react though. Already addressed that Fuuton nonsense above.
And no. Naruto pushing off with his arm wouldn't have worked as his arm doesn't grant him the length or extension the chakra arm gives him. And FRS? :lol wat? The FRS example doesn't even begin to help your point since he could've used the chakra arm to form an FRS instead of doing what he did. Not to mention:
-Couldn't have formed FRS before he got hit by the rock.
-Throwing FRS doesn't solve his problem. The rock gets cut through, but the fragments hit him. Or it hits the rock and explodes, thus Naruto gets caught in the explosion and dies.
-Using a chakra arm to push off is the smarter choice as it takes less effort to achieve the same exact result.
But yes. He can use BT on two objects at once.
Hmm, odd. You think Yata can tank all things despite nothing ever proving that, but:
[
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]Yata repelled the hydra, the explosions, and the physical attack Sasuke made on it with his sword. Thus Shinra Tensei, the part that hits Itachi's Susanoo, will be repelled. Will it hit Nagato? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, Nagato is left without his powers and then he dies a terrible death since he can't compete without his Deva abilities. Shinra Tensei pushing Susanoo away doesn't mean anything since at the end of the day, Nagato is left without any Deva Powers and Minato and Itachi are unharmed.
Clearly mentioned that Itachi's been marked, and I've only said he throws Kunai at Nagato once or twice. I think.
Obito couldn't react because he didn't. His state of existence per say doesn't change the fact that he was hit with no reaction. Not to mention intangibility mode can be switched on or off, and it's usually off when Obito's about to warp, meaning:
A. Minato was so fast that he struck Obito before he could turn his intangibility mode back on after Minato teleported, but before he struck.
B. Minato blitzed him.
If Minato struck Obito so fast that he couldn't switch from
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to
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, then Obito couldn't react, thus he was blitzed. A and B are the same thing. Nagato or Pain not getting blitzed by people not capable of instantaneous teleportation doesn't really hold much weight here. Especially since his opponents have consisted of:
-KCM Naruto who used most of his power on clones.
-SM Naruto.
-Killer B.
-Kakashi.
-Other Jonin.
Not proof he can react. There isn't even one real piece of evidence that he can react in your whole entire post and I expected you to try and claim he could react anyway. 1 being physical and one being mental isn't proof that the mental reaction will always occur first. If I used that logic, I'd be saying that Minato shouldn't have gotten cut by Obito and Madara when they became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, but of course, he did, before he could teleport.
All Kunai bieng repelled via Fuuton is a terrible strategy that Nagato can't keep up for the whole match due to Minato being able to throw his Kunai at a faster rate than Nagato can spam his jutsu.
Not sure where Nagato catching up to B w/ flight alone came from when no panel shows his flight. Rather, he's shown right next to his chameleon after it's all over, so the more likely conclusion is that the chameleon is what helped him get around as he clearly stated he was immobile on his own.
And no, he can't fly with Deva path while his Deva Path abilities are on cooldown. So that leaves him with no way to fly as Asuras Boosters have only shown to let him move at high speeds at low altitudes. They don't grant him full blown flight.
Not to mention those come from his feet, not his arms.
And now we've reached the point where you are taking what DB says and twisting it in your favor since you already know that Nagato gets pooped on with canon feats. Being able to manipulate his shape doesn't mean that he can form any limb wherever he wants and use any ability from any limb. When you have real evidence that "able to manipulate his shape" implies a freer level of control that has been displayed in canon then your strategy will be valid. Not like it'd matter anyway since those are low flying boosters. Nagato is not capable of full blown flight. The closest thing he has is his Deva Path levitation.
And I'd also like to point out that Nagato summons these mechanical limbs via actual Summoning. Another reason to give Nagato more limbs and different abilities than he's shown in the Manga itself.
What's Nagato going to do?
1. Asura Path has never shown homing missiles. Only normal missiles.
2. Minato has clones.
3. Minato has toads who can carry his marking and his Kunai.
4. Nagato will be busy trying not to die against the original Minato and Itachi.
5. The Hokage Mountain is marked.
I didn't address that because what you are saying is impossible and makes no sense and is completely irrelevant to my point. Not to mention it also introduces hypotheticals that you can't prove when it comes to it vs. Itachi's defenses.
Who knows? But considering you have no evidence Nagato can react to Minato's Hiraishin blitz, the question is irrelevant. Not sure why you pull this same stunt w/ Nagato against every kind of speedster there is. But let's say he can, CST won't hurt Minato until he hits the ground, thus when he teleports into Susanoo...he never hits the ground and thus he never takes damage that'd kill him.
@bold: Via means that are impossible? Yeah. Sure. :lol Even if we let him levitate like normal it doesn't matter.
But yes. They can tell when CST is coming.
1. It uses a lot of chakra.
2. Main reason. [
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]A Giant shockwave that can be seen via what it does to the ground is shown when CST is used. The moment something like that appears, Minato warps into Susanoo and Itachi tanks it and reflects, proof has been provided. DB has stated that it does so, and that isn't hyperbole so please don't mentioning anything of the sort. Lol it's funny that you are telling me to provide proof when we are claiming that Nagato reacts to a Hiraishin blitz based on nothing.
Minato either warps into Susanoo to be safe, or he warps on another location on the field to evade the directional CST.
Itachi already saw it. Second of all, he doesn't need to know exactly how large it is to place a marking far away enough from the village to give him the chance to escape. Not even sure how the bold makes sense when forcing him to retreat backwards only lets him set the marking where he needs to set it as his goal is to get away from the battlefield, not towards Nagato.
Skews his focus how? :lol. Unless Nagato has some telescopic vision he's not going to see the marking on Itachi's clone. Even if he does see it, what good does that do him?
And Nagato not needing to look Itachi in the eye to use Shinra Tensei is irrelevant as he won't be looking Itachi in the eye, he'll be looking straight ahead only for Itachi to teleport right into Nagato's face. Then there's Minato's Hiraishin blitz which he 100% can't react to. The lack of evidence in your post is proof of that.
Itachi can also force CQC with Nagato while in Susanoo. Due to Yata Mirror, if Nagato tries to use normal Shinra Tensei to counter, it only gets repelled right back at him, giving Minato the perfect opportunity to blitz him with Hiraishin. His only option against Susanoo in CQC is to use Preta Path. CST focused would kill Itachi, but leave him defenseless against Minato's blitz 100% due to the unreliability of this Fuuton strategy. But Preta gets Nagato killed too since he'd just teleport right to him due to the mark he has on Itachi. Using CT in CQC isn't going to work for obvious reasons. He'd die before anything major happened due to Minato.
Countered, countered, countered and countered.
Nope. He loses. Handily.
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Jesus...... although see some mistakes in logic that can be attributed to rushing my man, tsk tsk
Post will be up sometime this week, either before or after I move in, don't think there is really any time limit any more.
Post will be up sometime this week, either before or after I move in, don't think there is really any time limit any more.