What is this guy talking about? Magma blasts? What does that have to do with a 1v1 where WB won't allow the magma to come near him when he is aware?
This is how Gura can deal with ranged spam
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Yami Yami's range can engulf an entire town, and who knows what the limit is. So thats the range of how far his gravity pull can probably extend
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For dealing with ranged attacks = gura gura
For dealing with Kizaru's body from afar = Yami yami pull.
Not continuing this further. What you're saying, doesn't make much sense. This fight takes more away from Kizaru than it does BB (which I already said) so that's it.
BTW I'm not assuming Kizaru stands there and does nothing when he's being pulled, you're assuming BB doesn't have another hand with the Gura Gura to ward off incoming ranged attacks that would be counters otherwise....that's the whole premise.
You can't compare Aokiji's ice constructs to Kizaru's beams of light though because of their vastly different natures. While something like Partisan simply breaks apart, Kizaru's light beams are explosive in nature. A shockwave hits a Yasaka no Magatama, and the beams of light explode, generating a shockwave of their own that would just cancel out with the shockwaves from the Quake. Powers like Kizaru's that create explosions of their own when striking something are perfect for being ranged attacks for the Gura Gura no Mi.
Yami Yami's range can engulf an entire town, and who knows what the limit is. So thats the range of how far his gravity pull can probably extend
Yes, but Darkness that's spread from Teach's body only pulls in things when they are in contact. If Teach spreads his darkness 20 meters ahead of himself, that mass of Darkness won't pull towards it something that's 20 meters behind Teach. So far the only time he's shown being able to pull something remotely without them touching the Darkness has been directly towards himself, so if Kizaru takes off to float in the air, Teach spreading his Darkness throughout an entire town is useless.
For dealing with ranged attacks = gura gura
For dealing with Kizaru's body from afar = Yami yami pull.
This tactic makes zero sense though. This only works on the assumption that every single time Teach tries to pull in Kizaru, Kizaru either:
A). Won't react with a ranged attack
B). Won't be able to match the power of his Quakes or catch him by surprise
And both of these are unlikely as all hell.
Not continuing this further. What you're saying, doesn't make much sense. This fight takes more away from Kizaru than it does BB (which I already said) so that's it.
It really doesn't. Kizaru's powers are far better off dealing as a ranged attack against Quakes than something like Kuzan's ice, so the comparison isn't valid.
An attack like Yasaka no Magatama, which can be made continuous and to explode on contact with Quakes is PERFECT for the Gura Gura no Mi. When Teach fires a Quake, he's firing a set amount of vibrations off through the air per swing. Kizaru, on the other hand, can fire off a continuous stream of light beams with the Magatama technique, matching the Quakes due to the explosive effect and continuing towards Teach once the Quakes are mitigated.
1.Akainu was right infront of him, that wasn't a ranged encounter ffs.
2.He stopped his magma punch in its tracks.
Moving on from that nonsense.
-I'm not understanding a word you're saying regarding BB's pull, he can pull DF users in, and I showed you his range with his Darkness fruit, so I'm assuming he can pull characters in from a range similar to that visual. You're over complicating the shit out of this.
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This tactic makes zero sense though. This only works on the assumption that every single time Teach tries to pull in Kizaru, Kizaru either:
A). Won't react with a ranged attack
B). Won't be able to match the power of his Quakes or catch him by surprise
And both of these are unlikely as all hell.
A) ? Never made that assumption and that isn't a requirement
B) Match the power of his Quake, tf *****? It doesn't matter if it matches, it can match it all day, they can wear matching colours and hit the mall. Point is the Quake effectively halts the attacks even if they explode upon contact before they reach BB. Like this
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-Yasakani no Magatama is when Kizaru goes into
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stance and is a focused attack which Kizaru has yet to show while doing on the move. My whole strategy means Kizaru can't just get comfortable whenever he wants.
It's true while BB uses a quake YNM will continue running past the quakes time period since its not as spammable as YNM, but my whole premise is BB controls the battlefield. He simply pulls Kizaru in and that will hinder Kizaru from spamming to that extent. It will be much harder to maintain YNM while being pulled by a gravitational force, that alone will significantly hinder the amount of beams Kizaru can shoot. Also when one beam goes off beside another the explosion can set off a chain reaction, making the others explode with them.
Nobody here is saying every single attack is not going to get through, you're acting like I'm saying BB will low diff the guy ffs, this is an extreme diff battle, and whoever holds more advantages (Blackbeard like I have clearly shown), will win. End of.
I misread your original post, I thought you were saying WB's fruit allows him to keep people at a range and not allow them to get close if needed, which is why I used Akainu getting close to spam magma as an example.
-I'm not understanding a word you're saying regarding BB's pull, he can pull DF users in, and I showed you his range with his Darkness fruit, so I'm assuming he can pull characters in from a range similar to that visual. You're over complicating the shit out of this.
No I'm not. Teach spreading his darkness through the ground on the scale of an entire town is irrelevant in this fight. When Teach spreads his darkness as a range along the ground as you've shown, it is only able to pull things into itself while it's directly touching the target. That renders the range of Teach's dark in the panel you posted to be irrelevant because Kizaru can take himself into the air away from it. You were the one that brought up the range, and I'm explaining why it's irrelevant to this fight since Kizaru can fly.
A) ? Never made that assumption and that isn't a requirement
That's why I said EITHER. Because these two scenarios are the only way Kizaru falls for this tactic enough to make it effective.
B) Match the power of his Quake, tf *****? It doesn't matter if it matches, it can match it all day, they can wear matching colours and hit the mall. Point is the Quake effectively halts the attacks even if they explode upon contact before they reach BB. Like this
Yes it does, B. Like I explained below, if Teach fires a Quake at Kizaru and Kizaru retaliates with Yasaka no Magatama, he has the advantage in this clash because the Quake fired from Teach consists of a finite amount of vibrations. The Sacred Jewel attack, however, has the benefit of being a continuous attack. So long as Kizaru keeps fueling the attack, then the Quakes become an unsuitable defense.
Once the Quakes and beams of light cancels out before the beams reach Teach, then that means no more Quake in this clash. But the beams will simply just keep on being produced and coming during the same usage of the technique, which leaves Teach open. The Quakes can only stop so much before they're nullified, leaving an opening for the remainder of the continuous stream of bullets to come through.
The gif you posted isn't accurate in representing how this clash would go because the Quakes aren't a stream of vibrations that are continuously sustained. They're fired as a set amount, and once that set amount is negated, a streaming attack like Kizaru's will just keep going.
-Yasakani no Magatama is when Kizaru goes into
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stance and is a focused attack which Kizaru has yet to show while doing on the move. My whole strategy means Kizaru can't just get comfortable whenever he wants.
Yeah, you're right, I actually forgot that Kizaru will be unable to cross his arms and touch his fingers together while being pulled in because the attraction nullifies your ability to move your ar- Oh wait, no it ****ing doesn't.
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Kizaru can literally assume the stance while being pulled the same way Ace could cross his arms to shoot the St. Elmo's fire
It's true while BB uses a quake YNM will continue running past the quakes time period since its not as spammable as YNM, but my whole premise is BB controls the battlefield. He simply pulls Kizaru in and that will hinder Kizaru from spamming to that extent.
As the gif of Ace above shows, no it wouldn't. That pull tactic isn't nowhere as effective against people with ranged attacks, and that goes double for Kizaru even with Teach having the Gura Gura no Mi.
It will be much harder to maintain YNM while being pulled by a gravitational force
Since the Ace gif disproves your premise that Kizaru wouldn't be able to position his arms the way he does for YSM, I'd love to see what else you can come with to argue that Kizaru can't ****ing fold his arms while being pulled through the air.
Hell, we can even go by the manga, which shows Ace being able to cross his arms a few meters from Teach, and you think Kizaru can't do the same?
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Nobody here is saying every single attack is not going to get through, you're acting like I'm saying BB will low diff the guy ffs, this is an extreme diff battle, and whoever holds more advantages (Blackbeard like I have clearly shown), will win. End of.
Advantage 1: Beams are more spammable than Gura Gura no Mi, and their explosive properties allow them to counter the shockwaves far more effectively than other projectile-based attacks.
Advantage 2: Kizaru's high mobility and ability to float greatly reduces the chances of him getting caught through direct contact with Teach's darkness
Advantage 3: Teach's tendency to pull DF users towards him becomes a double-edged sword due to the fact that Kizaru has ranged attacks AND they're effective against BOTH this method AND the back-up tactic of defending with a Quake
Teach's best bet of countering the beams isn't using the Gura Gura no Mi, it's pulling them into the Darkness, and we've never see him able to pull in something and pull a DF user at the same time, so as it stands now he can't do both at once, so that's another advantage for Kizaru.
1.Akainu was right infront of him, that wasn't a ranged encounter ffs.
2.He stopped his magma punch in its tracks.
Moving on from that nonsense.
-I'm not understanding a word you're saying regarding BB's pull, he can pull DF users in, and I showed you his range with his Darkness fruit, so I'm assuming he can pull characters in from a range similar to that visual. You're over complicating the shit out of this.
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A) ? Never made that assumption and that isn't a requirement
B) Match the power of his Quake, tf *****? It doesn't matter if it matches, it can match it all day, they can wear matching colours and hit the mall. Point is the Quake effectively halts the attacks even if they explode upon contact before they reach BB. Like this
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-Yasakani no Magatama is when Kizaru goes into
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stance and is a focused attack which Kizaru has yet to show while doing on the move. My whole strategy means Kizaru can't just get comfortable whenever he wants.
It's true while BB uses a quake YNM will continue running past the quakes time period since its not as spammable as YNM, but my whole premise is BB controls the battlefield. He simply pulls Kizaru in and that will hinder Kizaru from spamming to that extent. It will be much harder to maintain YNM while being pulled by a gravitational force, that alone will significantly hinder the amount of beams Kizaru can shoot. Also when one beam goes off beside another the explosion can set off a chain reaction, making the others explode with them.
Nobody here is saying every single attack is not going to get through, you're acting like I'm saying BB will low diff the guy ffs, this is an extreme diff battle, and whoever holds more advantages (Blackbeard like I have clearly shown), will win. End of.
I don't kno why you're saying kizaru has more disadvantages he has the best shot of any admiral to beat BB. I'm just asking your opinion are u Of the mindset that aokiji or akainu stands a better chance against Bb than kizaru?
No I'm not. Teach spreading his darkness through the ground on the scale of an entire town is irrelevant in this fight. When Teach spreads his darkness as a range along the ground as you've shown, it is only able to pull things into itself while it's directly touching the target. That renders the range of Teach's dark in the panel you posted to be irrelevant because Kizaru can take himself into the air away from it. You were the one that brought up the range, and I'm explaining why it's irrelevant to this fight since Kizaru can fly.
Holy shit man, I'm making this easier for you, we don't know the limit of Teach's pull all he said was he can pull DF users in and he pulled Ace in. I can literally say he pulls Kizaru from any range because that is what he said, and it remains to be proven wrong, but instead I give you a visual of his DF's range to say it can cover that much distance vertically and horizontally. In other words, no Kizaru is NOT safe when he is in the air.
Yes it does, B. Like I explained below, if Teach fires a Quake at Kizaru and Kizaru retaliates with Yasaka no Magatama, he has the advantage in this clash because the Quake fired from Teach consists of a finite amount of vibrations. The Sacred Jewel attack, however, has the benefit of being a continuous attack. So long as Kizaru keeps fueling the attack, then the Quakes become an unsuitable defense.
Once the Quakes and beams of light cancels out before the beams reach Teach, then that means no more Quake in this clash. But the beams will simply just keep on being produced and coming during the same usage of the technique, which leaves Teach open. The Quakes can only stop so much before they're nullified, leaving an opening for the remainder of the continuous stream of bullets to come through.
The gif you posted isn't accurate in representing how this clash would go because the Quakes aren't a stream of vibrations that are continuously sustained. They're fired as a set amount, and once that set amount is negated, a streaming attack like Kizaru's will just keep going.
I already know this which is why I said the pull hinders Kizaru from pushing out so many beams at a constant rate. But I'll explain later how this is just me accounting for the pull and not the actual physics of a Gura punch.
Yeah, you're right, I actually forgot that Kizaru will be unable to cross his arms and touch his fingers together while being pulled in because the attraction nullifies your ability to move your ar- Oh wait, no it ****ing doesn't.
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Kizaru can literally assume the stance while being pulled the same way Ace could cross his arms to shoot the St. Elmo's fire
As the gif of Ace above shows, no it wouldn't. That pull tactic isn't nowhere as effective against people with ranged attacks, and that goes double for Kizaru even with Teach having the Gura Gura no Mi.
Since the Ace gif disproves your premise that Kizaru wouldn't be able to position his arms the way he does for YSM, I'd love to see what else you can come with to argue that Kizaru can't ****ing fold his arms while being pulled through the air.
Hell, we can even go by the manga, which shows Ace being able to cross his arms a few meters from Teach, and you think Kizaru can't do the same?
Bruh its not that Kizaru can't cross his arms, I obviously expect someone with Kizaru's strength to do that. I'm talking more about the focus that specific attack yasakani no magatam requires. Everytime Kizaru has used that attack he assumes a stable position, and this star like light maintains its structure.
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When Kizaru is pulled in, he will obviously not be able to maintain that structure. Every attack has a weakness there is a reason Kizaru doesn't just go around spamming YNM constantly and uses his other beams, this attack requires a level of immobility.
And to back me on this is that when Kizaru was in this stance he would rather not move in order to keep attacking Marco, otherwise with his speed he would dodge while maintaining the attack but he was very strict with staying in one spot even when Marco was coming at him full speed.
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An attack like that would be way too hax and overpowered without some sort of drawbackk, Oda seemingly set a limit to how much that attack can be abused just like he did with Yata No Kagami.
And again this is literally just under the assumption that Gura wont be enough to deal with those beams and he'll need to pull him in. I haven't even talked about how the Gura can stop Kizaru from the spam.
First of all when I said advantage I meant Kizaru has more things to avoid threatening his style than the other way around. Which is true by any stretch of the margin.
Flight = taken away
Range = relatively dealt with
Advantage 1: Beams are more spammable than Gura Gura no Mi, and their explosive properties allow them to counter the shockwaves far more effectively than other projectile-based attacks.
Sure they are more spammable, but their explosions can be used against them because one gura punch can set off a chain reaction.
Advantage 2: Kizaru's high mobility and ability to float greatly reduces the chances of him getting caught through direct contact with Teach's darkness
Zero advantage here. Kizaru has this advantage with 99% of characters and Blackbeard is the 1% who can pull DF users in using gravity. Kizaru gets grounded.
Advantage 3: Teach's tendency to pull DF users towards him becomes a double-edged sword due to the fact that Kizaru has ranged attacks AND they're effective against BOTH this method AND the back-up tactic of defending with a Quake
Here I'll explain how this is flawed. You are completely ignoring the fact that the quake doesn't stop when it touches the beams, those beams are going for quantity not quality.
I have proof of this. Kizaru's singular beam's explosion is on this level [
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], his YNM beams despite being much more in quantity only create an explosion of this size [
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]. As you can see they pack way less of a punch than the individual charged beams.
So they definitely are not overpowering a quake which has the most DC among OP attacks. Like I said, you are forgetting that the quake will keep going past the beams all the way to Kizaru forcing him to leave his stance. Heck it took the 3 Admirals to halt the quake.
Quakes travel distance [
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] Admirals needing to stop it [
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]
And yet you think Kizaru can just sit there and spam his attack while the quake is coming at him. So just like Kuzan broke, Kizaru will get hit if he just stands there. He will need to dodge/block/go intangible/ whatever he needs to do but he absolutely won't be maintaining YNM like you are implying.
Kizaru's arsenal is dealt with way better by Blackbeard than pretty much any other top tier barring maybe Fujitora, that is the point here, I don't need to bring any more evidence to back me, I've shown enough regarding how he is dealt with.
I don't kno why you're saying kizaru has more disadvantages he has the best shot of any admiral to beat BB. I'm just asking your opinion are u Of the mindset that aokiji or akainu stands a better chance against Bb than kizaru?
Again, you assume Kizaru is just gonna do nothing as he's pulled forward? That's stupid as hell my guy. Quakes and shockwaves resonate outwards, they travel. So if Teach pulls Kizaru towards him and punches the air to send a Quake, Kizaru can still send beams of light to intercept the Quake beforehand, and keep the shower going to bypass the Quakes and keep going to Teach unless he change strategies.
Doesn't matter if Kizaru shoots a beam or not he's going to get wrecked. BB is hit with a light beam that he easily tanks while Kizaru is hit with this[
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]. That trade is in huge favor of BB.
That pulling in thing isn't a strategy that's going to work often. At best, Teach gets to execute it once without Kizaru catching on, but any subsequent tries can easily be intercepted.
Don't see it, I actually believe the Quakes to be a good counter to spam techs coming from a distance. I'd favour BB just for this tbh he controls the pace of the fight more than anything.
I don't know if I would rank BB higher on a tier list or anything like that though, I think haki beasts can expose him to an extent.
Not the darkness fruit, the gura gura fruit is a nightmare for Kuzan's ice. Kuzan can never freeze him, and all range attacks get broken. Darkness is a nightmare for any DF power.
Because half of his power comes from draining DF abilities, Yami is focused on countering other DF abilities. He can't use his gravity pull on non DF users, he can't drain them of their powers which makes them top tier. They basically fight full power and with significantly better haki than Teach who doesn't seem to rely much on Haki, and definitely lacks in that department compared to them considering what he has.
Shanks, Mihawk type fighters can take care of him. Top tiers who are just as strong as the Akainu's Kizaru's of the world but without the DF and with better Haki = Blackbeard is in trouble.
Light is faster than magma and harder to defend with GG fruit. He's also the best long range fighter how is akainu better than kizaru at dealing with BB.
Light is faster than magma and harder to defend with GG fruit. He's also the best long range fighter how is akainu better than kizaru at dealing with BB.
1.Akainu relies less on range than Kizaru does, range is dealt with by Yami pull and Gura quake.
2.Akainu fights grounded 100% of the time, Kizaru tries to float, BB sends him back to the ground hindering him.
3.Akainu is the most lethal character in One Piece. BB canonically says when he absorbs attacks the damage amplifies. Well good luck with that against Akainu. His attacks are already the most lethal in the show, BB being a tank type character, you simply don't tank hits from Akainu, and now the damage/pain is amplified, that is suicide.
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4.Akainu might have better haki than Kizaru, might be a small difference but its worth noting.
1.Akainu relies less on range than Kizaru does, range is dealt with by Yami pull and Gura quake.
2.Akainu fights grounded 100% of the time, Kizaru tries to float, BB sends him back to the ground hindering him.
3.Akainu is the most lethal character in One Piece. BB canonically says when he absorbs attacks the damage amplifies. Well good luck with that against Akainu. His attacks are already the most lethal in the show, BB being a tank type character, you simply don't tank hits from Akainu, and now the damage/pain is amplified, that is suicide.
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4.Akainu might have better haki than Kizaru, might be a small difference but its worth noting.
Well what I'm saying is speed and long range is better due to the fact that akainu's main offensive capabilities especially close range is taken away by Yy fruit. And long range attacks are easily stopped by GG. But if akainu can get a close range big hit which would be difficult he would deal severe damage to BB. I need to see Bb in action again cuz idk how much of an idiot he is which makes or breaks how he'd fair against these guys I still think at this point as a yonko he should have an edge. I think akainu has the edge on kizaru but he seems like he'd be better against BB rn. However if Bb is as careless as he was pre timeskip then akainu would be better due to him being so lethal.
1.Akainu relies less on range than Kizaru does, range is dealt with by Yami pull and Gura quake.
2.Akainu fights grounded 100% of the time, Kizaru tries to float, BB sends him back to the ground hindering him.
3.Akainu is the most lethal character in One Piece. BB canonically says when he absorbs attacks the damage amplifies. Well good luck with that against Akainu. His attacks are already the most lethal in the show, BB being a tank type character, you simply don't tank hits from Akainu, and now the damage/pain is amplified, that is suicide.
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4.Akainu might have better haki than Kizaru, might be a small difference but its worth noting.
Kizaru can fight just as good at close range; Kizaru had the best display of all admirals at close range as he matched someone of Rayleigh's caliber. And I don't understand your logic, If BB could pull someone who's far away from him and hit him with GGnM, why can't he do that to someone who's standing right next to him? Kizaru could easily get away from the attacks reach unlike Akainu who must resort to either tank it or by pass the damage via logia intangibility.
Ground is BB's territory, Not even Whitebeard received no mercy from Black Hole, it restricts Akainu's movements and one touch is all it takes BB to disable Akainu's fruit which is what makes him as dangerous as he is, stuck in black hole and unable to use his fruit, there would be literally nothing Akainu could do to stop the incoming GGnM punch which BB throws immediately after handicapping Akainu. Kizaru is clearly more of a match for BB than Akainu.
Kizaru can fight just as good at close range; Kizaru had the best display of all admirals at close range as he matched someone of Rayleigh's caliber. And I don't understand your logic, If BB could pull someone who's far away from him and hit him with GGnM, why can't he do that to someone who's standing right next to him? Kizaru could easily get away from the attacks reach unlike Akainu who must resort to either tank it or by pass the damage via logia intangibility.
Ground is BB's territory, Not even Whitebeard received no mercy from Black Hole, it restricts Akainu's movements and one touch is all it takes BB to disable Akainu's fruit which is what makes him as dangerous as he is, stuck in black hole and unable to use his fruit, there would be literally nothing Akainu could do to stop the incoming GGnM punch which BB throws immediately after handicapping Akainu. Kizaru is clearly more of a match for BB than Akainu.
Because Akainu is more used to CQC, he fights best at that range. Kizaru's best attack to date is long range. His most destructive attacks are also long-medium range.
I explained my stance.
BB takes more away from Kizaru's style than he does Akainu. Kizaru likes to do all this moving around, but he won't get to do much of it against BB.
Akainu wants to be up close, so when BB tanks a magma hit he'll be on the floor in pain. The darkness fruit amplifies damage, and you don't want to amplify the damage of the most lethal attack in One Piece.
Because Akainu is more used to CQC, he fights best at that range. Kizaru's best attack to date is long range. His most destructive attacks are also long-medium range.
I explained my stance.
BB takes more away from Kizaru's style than he does Akainu. Kizaru likes to do all this moving around, but he won't get to do much of it against BB.
Akainu wants to be up close, so when BB tanks a magma hit he'll be on the floor in pain. The darkness fruit amplifies damage, and you don't want to amplify the damage of the most lethal attack in One Piece.
That was completely groundless, Kizaru, from what we have seen had the best display at close range while Akainu's feats involves him not being able outclass or land a hit on a heavily weakened Whitebeard until when the later became completely vulnerable towards all incoming attacks. Much like Whitebeard, Akainu is a power type fighter, he mostly relies on his overwhelming power and lethality to fight. Compared to the other admirals, He's isn't particularly great as far as it concerns raw skills(Reflexes, Striking rate and reactions).
BB clearly had the advantage as far as it concerns power, he could restrain Akainu via Black Hole, he can't do anything without proper foothold no matter how great he is at close range. BB could absorb any incoming attack as Akainu's attacks aren't particularly fast to think that he won't be able to react in time. And he could handicap Akainu by nullifying his ability. BB has no ability that wouldn't effectively work on Akainu tbh. I see no reason as to why Akainu would be more advantageous here. If it weren't for the fact that BB is way too cocky to fight without letting his guard down, I'd say that the chances of Akainu winning are equal to zero.
Kizaru on the other hand, could get away from the attacks range before BB could land at attack, could launch an attack of his own while being pulled which forces BB to drop the pull in order to defend from the incoming attacks, his attacks are way too fast for BB to counter, his maneuverability is too much of a trouble for him to handle, he packs just as much power if not more than Akainu. Strictly talking from the way how their fighting powers are portrayal, there isn't a single thing in which Akainu looks better than Kizaru except for endurance and lethality.
