[Manga approved] Top 10 list of the strongest shinobi with Tiers

[KCMNaruto]

I tend to question whether Post Jin Hagoromo is any different from Pre Jin.

Hagoromo and Hamura were born with their mother's chakra. In other words, they already had Juubi chakra since birth. During their fight against her, they already had Gudoudama. Something Obito was only able to use since he had Juubi chakra (Post Jin). Not to mention, they were able to defeat her (although they used the seals).

That might be why two halves of Non-Jin Hagoromo were able to counter everything Juubi Jin Madara was throwing at them. A Post Jin partially retains some of the abilities he had while a Jin. Obito was compatible with Juubi chakra because of this which is why he managed to absorb Juubi chakra from Madara and reform his staff. Hagoromo, on the other hand, inherited it from his mother so he's always had it.

He then became even more powerful when he became Juubi Jin. The difference between Madara and Hagoromo should be clear. I personally wouldn't have Madara in Kaguya's tier.

Well you brought good question here and I will try to respond the best I can.

1. It is True that Pre Jin Yang Hagoromo and Yin Hamura has inherited Juubi's power/chakra through Kaguya, his Mother.
2. Well, we have never seen them using or having goudama, only holding staff in hands which most likely is made of goudama.
3. Yes Yang Naruto and Yin Sasuke was enough to match juubi Jin due to what you have typed
4. Yes, Post Jin has retained Jinchurki abilities.
5. Yes as Juubi Jin and most likely obtaining Yin from Hamura as well Rikudou was incredible powerfull.

Summary:

Post Jin Advantage over Pre Juubi Hagoromo form:
1. Retaining abilities while having Jinchurki state
2. Yin and Yang powers
3. More expierience
4. More abilities

Pre Jin state advantage over Post Jin Hagoromo state:
1. More chakra (because Hagoromo was in weak state after extracting Ten tails chakra from himself for awhile at leat.)?!

I feel SM DRM should be above Yang version of The Rikudou.... Everything else I'm content with.... Though I feel Madara is above both The Rikudou and Kaguya.... Yes the only villain to have to be beaten by sneak tactics.... Imho he cannot be defeated in direct confrontation this is also a Manga fact What happened to Madara could happen to absolutely anyone period....

Possible, but Yang version of Rikudou had already Juubi chakra inherited through kaguya,while Madara lacked it... Also Senjutsu of six paths is highter/supreme version of normal SM.

I disagree with your forced "Madara being above Kaguya and Hagoromo" argument. There is no hints to even assume this is possible. Back then I could agree but as manga advances it was proved to be incorrect.

I agre although that Madara was trolled and it would happen to everyone.

This is my tier list

Spoiler

this list is based on OVERALL abilities, if you feel that there are some faults with it, then feel free to VM me over them, but provide a legitimate reason over whats wrong

i have also included most of the forms for oother characters so if you feel annoyed by that then thats not legitimate enough,
Indra, ashura and Hamura are not included due to lack of feats and hype

Tier: 1
Kaguya Ootsutsuki
Sage of the Six Paths
Bijuu Powered Sasuke
RSM Naruto Uzumaki
Double Rinnegan Juubi Madara

Tier 2:
RG Sasuke Uchiha
Juudara
Juubito
DMS Kakashi
8th Gate Guy

Tier 3:
RT Madara Uchiha
Kabuto w/ Edo Tensei
Orochimaru w/ Edo Tensei

Tier 4:
Hashirama Senju
VOTE Madara Uchiha
BSM Naruto Uzumaki
BM Minato Namikaze
Edo Madara Uchiha
RG Obito Uchiha w/ Paths

Tier 5:
BM Naruto Uzumaki
EMS Madara Uchiha
Healthy Nagato Uzumaki
EMS Sasuke Uchiha

Tier 6:
KCM Naruto Uzumaki
KCM Minato Namikaze
Killer Bee
RG Obito Uchiha w/o Paths
DSM Kabuto Yakushi

Tier 7:
Pein
Tobi
Minato Namikaze
Tobirama Senju
SM Naruto Uzumaki
Edo Itachi Uchiha

Tier 8:
Pein arc SM Naruto Uzumaki
MS Sasuke Uchiha
Sick Itachi Uchiha
War Arc Kakashi Hatake
Might Guy
Spiral Zetsu

Tier 9:
Muu
Third Raikage
Second Mizukage
Danzo
Gaara w/ Shukaku
Onoki
Ay
SM Jiraiya
Kisame
Gaara

Tier 10:
Hebi Sasuke
Edo Hiruzen Sarutobi
Orochimaru
Kakuzu
Tsunade
Sakura
Mei
Sasori
Deidara
Konan
Fourth Kazekage

Tier 11:
Zabuza
Hidan
Darui
Kitsuchi
Kimimaro
Chiyo

Tier 12:
Rock Lee
Choji
Jugo
Suigetsu
Kankuro
Temari
Neji Hyuga
Asuma Sarutobi
Kurenai Yuhi

Really not bad list, It has some really well thought out characters placed in right tiers.
Most of tiers are also logically and correctly placed.

However Putting Naruto and Sasuke in Same category as Kaguya and JJ Hagoromo would be completly wrong, as there is not hint for that and Naruto and Sasuke lack both Hype and Feats to even assume they could be same tier.

 

[KidGamer65]

Tier 0:
Kaguya

Tier1:
Current Naruto/Current Sasuke
JJ Hagoromo
DRG JJ Madara

Tier 2:
Yang Hagoromo
Yin Hamura


Tier 3:
DMS Kakashi
DMS Obito
JJ Obito v2
One-eyed RG JJ Madara
Ashura
Indra
SM DRG Madara
8th Gate Gai


Tier 4:
JJ Obito v1

Tier 5:
SM One-RG Madara
SM blind alive Madara
SM Hashirama/Edo Madara
EMS Madara with Kurama
BSM Naruto


Tier 6:
BM Naruto
EMS Sasuke with Juugo curse seal
Mastered EMS Sasuke

Lol, fixed.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Tier 0:
Kaguya

Tier1:
Current Naruto/Current Sasuke
JJ Hagoromo
DRG JJ Madara

Tier 2:
Yang Hagoromo
Yin Hamura


Tier 3:
DMS Kakashi
DMS Obito
JJ Obito v2
One-eyed RG JJ Madara
Ashura
Indra
SM DRG Madara
8th Gate Gai


Tier 4:
JJ Obito v1

Tier 5:
SM One-RG Madara
SM blind alive Madara
SM Hashirama/Edo Madara
EMS Madara with Kurama
BSM Naruto


Tier 6:
BM Naruto
EMS Sasuke with Juugo curse seal
Mastered EMS Sasuke

Lol, fixed.

@bold part makes it laughable top Lol

Majority of fans would make laugh from you.

Sasuke is Post Jin Old Hagoromo level who try to absorb all tailed beasts in himself.

JJ Hagoromo's Reshape/recreation of the world > anything Sasuke or Naruto has shown U_U

 

[KidGamer65]

@bold part makes it laughable top Lol

Not in order.

Majority of fans would make laugh from you.

Sasuke is Post Jin Old Hagoromo level who try to absorb all tailed beasts in himself.

Nope. They already got 50% of their power from Jin Rikudo. So they'd already be near a Non Jin Rikudo. Add the new powers they have both gotten, and they are near Jin Rikudo's level.

JJ Hagoromo's Reshape/recreation of the world > anything Sasuke or Naruto has shown U_U

Not related to strength.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Not in order.



Nope. They already got 50% of their power from Jin Rikudo. So they'd already be near a Non Jin Rikudo. Add the new powers they have both gotten, and they are near Jin Rikudo's level.



Not related to strength.

Spoiler

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Kurama has stated: "At this point,he is practically at the level of old man of the six paths, although he is acting completly contrary to how the old man would..."

@ bold part is all I need, also Kurama only has seen and talked about Post Jin Hagoromo:

Spoiler

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It confirms that Current Sasuke with bijuu chakra absorbed is above Post Jin Old Hagoromo level as he absorb Tailed beasts chakra in himself but far from Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo.

Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo > Juubi Jin Old Hagoromo(before extraction) >=Sasuke/Naruto > Post Jin Hagoromo > etc.

Also yes, it ma not be related to strength but it still proves Hagoromo's power and mighty. Neither Naruto or Sasuke can do something of such magnitude.

 

[Ghoul]

The conditions are simply: The top list split into tiers contain CAN CONTAIN ONLY 10 characters. Different version of characters are counted as one character/one spot. Chracters are put in order in each Tier section.

Top 10 list

Tier 0:
Kaguya
JJ Hagoromo
Three eyed JJ Madara

Tier1:
DRG JJ Madara
Current Naruto/Current Sasuke
Post JJ Yin-Yang Hagoromo

Tier 2:
Yang Hagoromo
Yin Hamura
One-eyed RG JJ Madara
[8th Gate Gai/DMS Kakashi with Rikudou chakra and Obito's spirit chakra -temporary power up]

Tier 3:
JJ Obito v2/DMS Obito with Rikudou chakra
Ashura
Indra
SM DRG Madara
SM One-RG Madara

Tier 4:
JJ Obito v1
SM blind alive Madara
SM Hashirama/Edo Madara

Tier 5:
EMS Madara with Kurama
BSM Naruto
EMS Sasuke with Juugo curse seal

Tier 6:
BM Naruto
Mastered EMS Sasuke

Listed characters: Kaguya, Hagoromo, Madara, Naruto,Sasuke, Hamura, Ashura, Indra, Obito, Hashirama + Characters with temporary power up: 8th Gate Gai/DMS Kakashi with Rikudou chakra and Obito's spirit
chakra.

Do you agree or disagree ?

Please type your answer along with reason

Thank you for reading :flowers

I'm sorry m8, but the manga can't approve as long as you ignore the fact that it's been clearly stated that Current Sasuke = Hagoromo. Keep ignoring that fact.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I'm sorry m8, but the manga can't approve as long as you ignore the fact that it's been clearly stated that Current Sasuke = Hagoromo. Keep ignoring that fact.

It can not be helped if you can not comprehend what you read, so I am sorry too.

You have to be more specific which version of Hagoromo you speak about:

1) Yang Hagoromo Pre Jinchurki state
2) Juubi Jinchurki Yin-Yang Prime Hagoromo
3) Juubi Jinchurki Yin-Yang Old Hagoromo(before extraction, and that where Sasuke approach)
4) Post Jin Yin-Yang Hagoromo(Current one Hagoromo)

Obviusly, second option is impossible and I can prove that:

Spoiler

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Kurama has stated: "At this point,he is practically at the level of old man of the six paths, although he is acting completly contrary to how the old man would..."

@ bold part is all I need, also Kurama only has seen and talked about Post Jin Hagoromo:

Spoiler

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It confirms that Current Sasuke with bijuu chakra absorbed is above Post Jin Old Hagoromo level as he absorb Tailed beasts chakra in himself but far from Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo.

Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo > Juubi Jin Old Hagoromo(before extraction) >=Sasuke/Naruto > Post Jin Hagoromo > etc.

 

[Ghoul]

It can not be helped if you can not comprehend what you read, so I am sorry too.

You have to be more specific which version of Hagoromo you speak about:

1) Yang Hagoromo Pre Jinchurki state
2) Juubi Jinchurki Yin-Yang Prime Hagoromo
3) Juubi Jinchurki Yin-Yang Old Hagoromo(before extraction, and that where Sasuke approach)
4) Post Jin Yin-Yang Hagoromo(Current one Hagoromo)

Obviusly, second option is impossible and I can prove that:

Spoiler

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Kurama has stated: "At this point,he is practically at the level of old man of the six paths, although he is acting completly contrary to how the old man would..."

@ bold part is all I need, also Kurama only has seen and talked about Post Jin Hagoromo:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It confirms that Current Sasuke with bijuu chakra absorbed is above Post Jin Old Hagoromo level as he absorb Tailed beasts chakra in himself but far from Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo.

Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo > Juubi Jin Old Hagoromo(before extraction) >=Sasuke/Naruto > Post Jin Hagoromo > etc.

Also yes, it ma not be related to strength but it still proves Hagoromo's power and mighty. Neither Naruto or Sasuke can do something of such magnitude.

Another selective reader. Well I guess it can't be helped, when people read about their favs they interpret things the way they want, just to put their fav into a good light.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Another selective reader. Well I guess it can't be helped, when people read about their favs they interpret things the way they want, just to put their fav into a good light.

Sorry if you can not comprehend it, I can not help you.

I proved my point with manga scans, yours assumption/interpretations of manga scans are not enough to prove otherwise:

direct manga scans proofs > Manga statements + your own opinion

 

[Ghoul]

Sorry if you can not comprehend it, I can not help you.

I proved my point with manga scans, yours assumption/interpretations of manga scans are not enough to prove otherwise:

direct manga scans proofs > Manga statements + your own opinion

Everyone on this website thinks that their interpretation of some lines in a manga = facts proofs etc. I allow you to stay in your ignorance. Deep down I'm sure you realize the truth although you won't admit it.

 

[KidGamer65]

Spoiler

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Kurama has stated: "At this point,he is practically at the level of old man of the six paths, although he is acting completly contrary to how the old man would..."

@ bold part is all I need, also Kurama only has seen and talked about Post Jin Hagoromo:

Spoiler

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It confirms that Current Sasuke with bijuu chakra absorbed is above Post Jin Old Hagoromo level as he absorb Tailed beasts chakra in himself but far from Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo.

Kurama knew the strength of the Juubi. Gyuki knew the strength of the Juubi and knew its final form despite not existing. That isn't a good enough reason. Unless you think Pre Jin Hagoromo>JJ Hagoromo at half strength, then you are wrong. JJ Hagoromo gave half his power to Naruto and Sasuke. Thus Naruto/Sasuke=50% JJ Hagoromo. Then Naruto gets a shitload of Nature Energy and Sasuke gets all 9 Bijuu. Its illogical to say that he isn't on JJ Hagoromo's level.

Juubi Jin Prime Hagoromo > Juubi Jin Old Hagoromo(before extraction) >=Sasuke/Naruto > Post Jin Hagoromo > etc.

Is there really a large difference here? Hagoromo didn't always have the Yin Seal, he definitely didn't have it when he first became the JJ. Yet when we see him, he has it. Old Age isn't enough for you to say that he dropped so much in power that he'd be far from himself when he was younger.

Besides, this pretty much says what I've been saying "JJ Hagoromo and N/S are on the same level"

You don't even know the point in time Hagoromo was the strongest, Lol. What are you even basing this stuff on?

Also yes, it ma not be related to strength but it still proves Hagoromo's power and mighty. Neither Naruto or Sasuke can do something of such magnitude.

Yet still unrelated to strength, so I don't care. Nagato can revive from the dead, is he stronger than Naruto who can't? Despite reviving people being a "god" level feat? Lol, no.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Kurama knew the strength of the Juubi. Gyuki knew the strength of the Juubi and knew its final form despite not existing. That isn't a good enough reason. Unless you think Pre Jin Hagoromo>JJ Hagoromo at half strength, then you are wrong. JJ Hagoromo gave half his power to Naruto and Sasuke. Thus Naruto/Sasuke=50% JJ Hagoromo. Then Naruto gets a shitload of Nature Energy and Sasuke gets all 9 Bijuu. Its illogical to say that he isn't on JJ Hagoromo's level.



Is there really a large difference here? Hagoromo didn't always have the Yin Seal, he definitely didn't have it when he first became the JJ. Yet when we see him, he has it. Old Age isn't enough for you to say that he dropped so much in power that he'd be far from himself when he was younger.

Besides, this pretty much says what I've been saying "JJ Hagoromo and N/S are on the same level"

You don't even know the point in time Hagoromo was the strongest, Lol. What are you even basing this stuff on?



Yet still unrelated to strength, so I don't care. Nagato can revive from the dead, is he stronger than Naruto who can't? Despite reviving people being a "god" level feat? Lol, no.

@ Bold part, True they knew it about it because Hagoromo has told them, simple as that. Yet They couldn't properly estimate how powerfull Juubi was or what it was capable of.

@ Underlined part , really ? Please tell me you are joking. Hagormo exctracted Ten Tails-> created Tailed beasts-> Created moon-> chose Successor and died. Obito has summoned Juubi in this war yet you state that Hagoromo had it, really ?

This point shows why rest of your post is incorrect when you reffer to Naruto's and Sauske's strength.

Half of Post Jin Yin-yang Rikudou=Naruto/Sasuke(Yang and Yin powers respectively)

@ second bold statement, prove that I dare you

@ second underlined part, really ? Old Double RG Madara and Rinne Tensei young Double RG Madara
Old Hiruzen, Young Hiruzen etc.

No they are not on his level, unless proved or stated by manga. It is only logical to say Hagoromo was the strongest in Juubi jin State. It is safe to assume that as Juubi Jin Hagoromo got Yin power from Hamura as this is the last moment we here about him. Also Juubi was need to be kept at bay so Yin-Yang powers were both needed for Hagoromo. Just like RG and Senjuu Cells are needed to contain Juubi.

It is not about the act/feat itself. Just magnitude/scale of which ability was used proves my point

EDIT:

ALSO WHY DIDN"T KURAMA MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT NUNOBOKO SWORD WHEN OBITO PULLED IT. WHY DIDN"T KURAMA TOLD NARUTO ABOUT ANY ABILITY IN HAGOROMO"S POSSESION AS JUUBI JINCHURKI TO HELP HIM BEAT OR AT LEAST DEFEND AGAINST OBITO as Juubi Jinchurki, hmm ?

Of course, you know you can not deny it.

 

[KidGamer65]

@ Bold part, True they knew it about it because Hagoromo has told them, simple as that. Yet They couldn't properly estimate how powerfull Juubi was or what it was capable of.

No evidence the bold.

@ Underlined part , really ? Please tell me you are joking. Hagormo exctracted Ten Tails-> created Tailed beasts-> Created moon-> chose Successor and died. Obito has summoned Juubi in this war yet you state that Hagoromo had it, really ?

The Hagoromo that appeared before them had the Juubi's power, as evidenced by Rikudo Senjutsu. That is all I care about. How he had the Juubi's power when the Juubi was elsewhere is irrelevant. He's just a floating ghost of chakra from the past anyway, no reason why he can't use his powers that he had during his lifetime. Never said that he had the physical Juubi.

And no. Rikudo Senjutsu is gained with the Juubi's power, or with 9 Bijuu and Rikudo's Chakra. Hagoromo didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu before becoming the Jin, so I have no reason to believe that he can use it without being the Jinchuuriki.

This point shows why rest of your post is incorrect when you reffer to Naruto's and Sauske's strength.

Half of Post Jin Yin-yang Rikudou=Naruto/Sasuke(Yang and Yin powers respectively)

Post Jin Rikudo did not have the Gudo Dama as it's a JJ ability, so no, it wasn't Post Jin Rikudo.

@ second bold statement, prove that I dare you

He became the JJ right after the Kaguya fight, and he was only shown to have the Yang Seal while Hamura had the Yin Seal.

@ second underlined part, really ? Old Double RG Madara and Rinne Tensei young Double RG Madara
Old Hiruzen, Young Hiruzen etc.

Madara became so old that he couldn't even live w/o life support. Onoki says hi. He got stronger with old age, not weaker.

No they are not on his level, unless proved or stated by manga. It is only logical to say Hagoromo was the strongest in Juubi jin State. It is safe to assume that as Juubi Jin Hagoromo got Yin power from Hamura as this is the last moment we here about him. Also Juubi was need to be kept at bay so Yin-Yang powers were both needed for Hagoromo. Just like RG and Senjuu Cells are needed to contain Juubi.

But you don't know when. Not interested in your fanfic theories by the way.

The bold is fanfic as well. You only need Senju/Uchiha genes to handle the Juubi. Hagoromo is the originator of both clans so he has both. He had the Rinnegan. No reason why he can't handle the Juubi.

It is not about the act/feat itself. Just magnitude/scale of which ability was used proves my point

Which is not related to strength.

EDIT:

ALSO WHY DIDN"T KURAMA MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT NUNOBOKO SWORD WHEN OBITO PULLED IT. WHY DIDN"T KURAMA TOLD NARUTO ABOUT ANY ABILITY IN HAGOROMO"S POSSESION AS JUUBI JINCHURKI TO HELP HIM BEAT OR AT LEAST DEFEND AGAINST OBITO as Juubi Jinchurki, hmm ?

Of course, you know you can not deny it.

Him not saying anything means nothing. Still no evidence that he didn't know about it. He knew about the Juubi's abilities, as seen when he recognized its Tenpenchii. Who told him that? Lmao.

 

[KidGamer65]

^^ The Senjtusu is only way to harm Juubi, this is enough proof that Hagoromo had Senjtusu pre Jin State.

By this logic, Hamura had Rikudo Senjutsu as well. Lol. Hagoromo's chakra alone is enough to hurt the Juubi Jinchuuriki, as shown by Sasuke bisecting Madara, and the JJ is the one that negates Ninjutsu, not the Juubi.

 

[KCMNaruto]

No evidence the bold.

^^ Ok, fair enough

The Hagoromo that appeared before them had the Juubi's power, as evidenced by Rikudo Senjutsu. That is all I care about. How he had the Juubi's power when the Juubi was elsewhere is irrelevant. He's just a floating ghost of chakra from the past anyway, no reason why he can't use his powers that he had during his lifetime. Never said that he had the physical Juubi.

Hagoromo inherited At least trail of Juubi chakra through Kaguya, his mother. It makes it possible for Hagoromo to posses Senjutsu of six paths before becoming Juubi Jinchurki as proven by my previous sentence.

And no. Rikudo Senjutsu is gained with the Juubi's power, or with 9 Bijuu and Rikudo's Chakra. Hagoromo didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu before becoming the Jin, so I have no reason to believe that he can use it without being the Jinchuuriki.

^^ see statement above .

Post Jin Rikudo did not have the Gudo Dama as it's a JJ ability, so no, it wasn't Post Jin Rikudo.

Obito could still create goudama in his Post Jin state.
No proof of that while there is proof Jinchurki retain it's powers through their Jinchurki status.

He became the JJ right after the Kaguya fight, and he was only shown to have the Yang Seal while Hamura had the Yin Seal.

First part of sentence is correct, scan please about second part of your sentence.

Madara became so old that he couldn't even live w/o life support. Onoki says hi. He got stronger with old age, not weaker.

Fair enough. Proof of Onooki getting stronger in old age then in "Prime" age. By the way by Prime I reffer to Onooki in late twenties or early thirties. Onooki was Teenager in Madara's flashback so it doesn't prove that

But you don't know when. Not interested in your fanfic theories by the way.

The bold is fanfic as well. You only need Senju/Uchiha genes to handle the Juubi. Hagoromo is the originator of both clans so he has both. He had the Rinnegan. No reason why he can't handle the Juubi.

Well it is correct, but Weren't Senjuu and Uchiha halves of Juubi's power. One inherited Juubi's body Senjuu while another one inherited Juubi's eyes Uchiha.

Yang reffers to body, so before we have Juubi's body Hagoromo with Rinnegan and Juubi's eyes Hamura with Byakugan and Uzumaki body.

Which is not related to strength.

^^ Which is still fact anyway and work in favour of Hagoromo.

Him not saying anything means nothing. Still no evidence that he didn't know about it. He knew about the Juubi's abilities, as seen when he recognized its Tenpenchii. Who told him that? Lmao.

Yes, Tenpenchii only stuff Kurama was mentioning or remembering. However it doesn't make sense for Kurama to remember just one ability, so it means Kurama was told about it most likely by Hagoromo.

By this logic, Hamura had Rikudo Senjutsu as well. Lol. Hagoromo's chakra alone is enough to hurt the Juubi Jinchuuriki, as shown by Sasuke bisecting Madara, and the JJ is the one that negates Ninjutsu, not the Juubi.

Well Juubi chakra is nature energy basically or rather charka with Nature chakra added/infused.

It is possible that Senjutsu of six paths state absorb nature energy passively, it could work on same principle as Juugo "Senin Transformation":

Spoiler

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- Here I proved connection of Juugo Sennin mode transformation and Juubi.

Considering that Juubi is nature energy manifestion it is possible. Now considering Hagoromo inherited Juubi's chakra it could be safe to say that Hagoromo chakra is infused with small amount of nature energy so that how Sasuke hurt Madara.

It is not the same as Sage chakra as you need balance perfectly three types of energies: physcial, Spiritual and nature which creates new empowered Sage chakra.

 

[TRE MERCER]

8th gate Gai cannot beat Juubito.

 

[KCMNaruto]

8th gate Gai cannot beat Juubito.

Could you elaborate about it ?

I mean I may take it in cosideration and change it.

 

[KidGamer65]

Hagoromo inherited At least trail of Juubi chakra through Kaguya, his mother. It makes it possible for Hagoromo to posses Senjutsu of six paths before becoming Juubi Jinchurki as proven by my previous sentence.

He didn't have it before, as shown by no Gudo Dama. So no, he didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu.

Obito could still create goudama in his Post Jin state.

He could only use the staff, and he didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu. So that doesn't help either.'

No proof of that while there is proof Jinchurki retain it's powers through their Jinchurki status.

There is no proof that Hagoromo or any Juubi Jin can fully utilize Rikudo Senjutsu without the Juubi. Before he became the Jin, he had no Rikudo Senjutsu, as evidenced by the lack of the Gudo Dama. Thus he needs the Juubi. That simple.

First part of sentence is correct, scan please about second part of your sentence.

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They both sealed her, thus each of them had one seal.

Fair enough. Proof of Onooki getting stronger in old age then in "Prime" age. By the way by Prime I reffer to Onooki in late twenties or early thirties. Onooki was Teenager in Madara's flashback so it doesn't prove that

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Onoki got faster from the last time he saw Deidara, which was many years before the start of the series. His abilities have gotten better since then, they haven't been declining as he gets older. The VIZ scan might say prime, but IDK. I'll find out later.

Well it is correct, but Weren't Senjuu and Uchiha halves of Juubi's power. One inherited Juubi's body Senjuu while another one inherited Juubi's eyes Uchiha.

Senju, Uchiha and Hyuga start with Kaguya. She got that power from eating the fruit of the Shinju, so yeah, it starts with her. She had Hagoromo and Hamura, Hamura inherited the Hyuga powers and Hagoromo inherited Senju and Uchiha's powers. Then he passed those powers to his kids.

The Juubi isn't what was divided into Senju and Uchiha, that's Hagoromo. The Juubi is basically a monster form of Kaguya anyway, so that is the only reason it has that eye.

Yang reffers to body, so before we have Juubi's body Hagoromo with Rinnegan and Juubi's eyes Hamura with Byakugan and Uzumaki body.

The sole fact that Hagoromo has the eyes renders this comparison moot.

^^ Which is still fact anyway and work in favour of Hagoromo.

Not when talking about strength.

Yes, Tenpenchii only stuff Kurama was mentioning or remembering. However it doesn't make sense for Kurama to remember just one ability, so it means Kurama was told about it most likely by Hagoromo.

Hagoromo telling him is nothing but a baseless assumption.

Well Juubi chakra is nature energy basically or rather charka with Nature chakra added/infused.

Ok.

It is possible that Senjutsu of six paths state absorb nature energy passively, it could work on same principle as Juugo "Senin Transformation":

Spoiler

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- Here I proved connection of Juugo Sennin mode transformation and Juubi.

Considering that Juubi is nature energy manifestion it is possible. Now considering Hagoromo inherited Juubi's chakra it could be safe to say that Hagoromo chakra is infused with small amount of nature energy so that how Sasuke hurt Madara.

Has nothing to do with Hagoromo being able to use Rikudo Senjutsu, complete with Gudo Dama and staff w/o the Juubi.

It is not the same as Sage chakra as you need balance perfectly three types of energies: physcial, Spiritual and nature which creates new empowered Sage chakra.

Never said it was the same, just that its enough to hurt a JJ.

 

[KCMNaruto]

He didn't have it before, as shown by no Gudo Dama. So no, he didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu.

^^ what if he lost them ?, Also it is not truth because Madara as Juubi Jinchurki got his goudama stolen and still was using Rikudou Senjutsu. It reffers to his body not some orbs floating around him.

He could only use the staff, and he didn't have Rikudo Senjutsu. So that doesn't help either.'

^^ The staff which was shapped from goudama. Madara also commented to Obito how wisely it was to use Senjutsu to deflect goudama and Obito didn;t come in contact with goudama but absorbed some chakra from Madara directly.

There is no proof that Hagoromo or any Juubi Jin can fully utilize Rikudo Senjutsu without the Juubi. Before he became the Jin, he had no Rikudo Senjutsu, as evidenced by the lack of the Gudo Dama. Thus he needs the Juubi. That simple.

The goudama != Rikudou Senjtusu

^^ See Madara's case and Obito's case explained by me above

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They both sealed her, thus each of them had one seal.

Ok, but that was before Hagoromo was Jinchurki. Hamura would easily transfer his powers to Hagoromo after he become Host of Ten tails to keep Ten tails at Bay and ensure world is safe. Even If Hagoromo could handle it just fine then it is always to take precautions then take a risk.

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Onoki got faster from the last time he saw Deidara, which was many years before the start of the series. His abilities have gotten better since then, they haven't been declining as he gets older. The VIZ scan might say prime, but IDK. I'll find out later.

Fair enough, i will wait for that scan then

Senju, Uchiha and Hyuga start with Kaguya. She got that power from eating the fruit of the Shinju, so yeah, it starts with her. She had Hagoromo and Hamura, Hamura inherited the Hyuga powers and Hagoromo inherited Senju and Uchiha's powers. Then he passed those powers to his kids.

ok

The Juubi isn't what was divided into Senju and Uchiha, that's Hagoromo. The Juubi is basically a monster form of Kaguya anyway, so that is the only reason it has that eye.

How ? I suppose JJ Hagoromo was the one who created his sons unless they were born naturally by some not skilled usual woman who was impregnated by Hagormo before he became host

The sole fact that Hagoromo has the eyes renders this comparison moot.

Not sure, It could be just that Hagoromo eye powers were weak at that point as his Yin power would be barerly developed.
The seal shows that Hagoromo was Body's type before so Rikudou Senjutsu should be in his possesion.

Not when talking about strength.

ok, I will leave that point for now.

Hagoromo telling him is nothing but a baseless assumption.

So how would he know ?
Magic ?

Ok.

ok

Has nothing to do with Hagoromo being able to use Rikudo Senjutsu, complete with Gudo Dama and staff w/o the Juubi.

As I said Goudama != Rikudou Senjutsu

Never said it was the same, just that its enough to hurt a JJ.

Glad we agree at it.

 

[Draphsin]

Kaguya
Hagoromo
Sasuke/Naruto
Naruto/Sasuke
Madara
Obito
DMS Kakashi
Hashi
Nagato
Kabuto

**8G gai could go below DMS kakashi, & edo minato could go below hashi.**