Manda (Naruto) vs Edo Part 1 Senju Brothers (Naruto)

[Bob74h]

Setting/Location: Destroyed Konoha

Victory Conditions: Death of the opposing character

Motivation: In character

Circumstance: Orochimaru sends the edo hokage after manda as revenge for threatening to kill him

Equipment: Standard

Preparation: N/A

Period/Saga/Age: the original manda and part 1 edo tobirama/hashirama

Continuity/Canon: anime versions

Distance: 33 ft

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[Infant]

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Considering the size of boss summons, that tail swipe is a destruction showing that is far bigger than anything that the brothers showed in Naruto Inception. So in direct firepower, Manda beats them.

Manda was considered a legitimate threat to Orochimaru who was casually dancing with V2 Naruto and could casually react to a TBB Bullet, which should easily scale to above V2 Raikage speeds. So for Manda to threaten such an Orochimaru when all he has is speed and power, physical attacks, means Manda should be faster than all those attacks. That puts Manda in a level of speed far above the brothers who scale below Old Hiruzen who scales below Orochimaru.

So he stomps here, probably literally.

 

[Symmetra]

Manda was considered a legitimate threat to Orochimaru who was casually dancing with V2 Naruto and could casually react to a TBB Bullet, which should easily scale to above V2 Raikage speeds.

I have to disagree here

First, what scales V2 four tails Naruto to above the Raikage in speed?

Also Manda was considered a threat to an Orochimaru who was significantly weaker then the one who fought Naruto. The Orochimaru Manda threatened couldn’t even move his arms period and was even more sick and ill then when he fought Naruto.

 

[Infant]

I have to disagree here

First, what scales V2 four tails Naruto to above the Raikage in speed?

Also Manda was considered a threat to an Orochimaru who was significantly weaker then the one who fought Naruto. The Orochimaru Manda threatened couldn’t even move his arms period and was even more sick and ill then when he fought Naruto.

Standard Naruto scales to Kakashi who scale to V1 RK, going off of his clash with Sasuke.


So a boosted Naruto (1-3 tails cloak) should move to V2, while a double boosted Naruto (4-8 tails cloak) should move above that. That Naruto moves at blitz speed in his cloak form compared to uncloaked forms parallels RK moving at blitz speed between each stage of his armour.


We also have Jiraiya blitzing Itachi and Kisame with his summons, the former whom scales to Hebi Sasuke and and the latter to V1 KB, who himself scales above V2 RK. Since Orochimaru was superior to Jiraiya in their cqc clash, that puts Orochimaru above V2 RK in physical movement overall. Since 4 tailed Naruto clashed evenly with Orochimaru, that puts him there as well.


Then we have Orochimaru reacting to a projectile attack boosted by a directed explosion in speed. It was so fast it ripped the ground apart in shockwave. Projectiles are far faster than physical movement (people), so that very easily scales far above V2 RK.




As far as i understand it, the Orochimaru who fought Naruto is the weakest ever. He was having body rejections sp hard he had to do Oral Rebirth just because.




Besides all this physical scaling, that Orochimaru possesses the Long Sword which can extend and fly means that he doesn't even need to scale to Manda to beat him, because the sword counters him very well. So for Manda to be a threat despite that, means Manda scales even higher than Orochimaru, as he would have to in order to bypass the Long Sword.

 

[Symmetra]

going off of his clash with Sasuke.

Was Sasuke not already fatigued from nearly dying to Danzo?

So a boosted Naruto (1-3 tails cloak) should move to V2, while a double boosted Naruto (4-8 tails cloak) should move above that. That Naruto moves at blitz speed in his cloak form compared to uncloaked forms parallels RK moving at blitz speed between each stage of his armour.


We also have Jiraiya blitzing Itachi and Kisame with his summons, the former whom scales to Hebi Sasuke and and the latter to V1 KB, who himself scales above V2 RK. Since Orochimaru was superior to Jiraiya in their cqc clash, that puts Orochimaru above V2 RK in physical movement overall. Since 4 tailed Naruto clashed evenly with Orochimaru, that puts him there as well.


Then we have Orochimaru reacting to a projectile attack boosted by a directed explosion in speed. It was so fast it ripped the ground apart in shockwave. Projectiles are far faster than physical movement (people), so that very easily scales far above V2 RK.

Very interesting scaling, I’ll have to think about it but it does sound logical for the most part.

As far as i understand it, the Orochimaru who fought Naruto is the weakest ever. He was having body rejections sp hard he had to do Oral Rebirth just because.

Not really, the sannin deadlock Orochimaru didn’t have his arms at all whilst Naruto Orochimaru did. So Sannin deadlock Orochimaru would have died to Naruto’s tailed beast bomb. Also he wouldn’t have had his binding snake glare to stop Naruto’s chakra arm either.

 

[Infant]

Was Sasuke not already fatigued from nearly dying to Danzo?



Very interesting scaling, I’ll have to think about it but it does sound logical for the most part.



Not really, the sannin deadlock Orochimaru didn’t have his arms at all whilst Naruto Orochimaru did. So Sannin deadlock Orochimaru would have died to Naruto’s tailed beast bomb. Also he wouldn’t have had his binding snake glare to stop Naruto’s chakra arm either.

I think such tiredness affects long duration outputs, but not immediate capability, at least physically.


After a day at work, you can still run at top speed, but you'll suffer more for it later and risk injury. That applies in general, but even more so with adrenaline - death battle - and emotional boosts.


If that holds, then Kakashi should still scale.


Suppose it doesn't, then there is the 2 Sharingan vs 1 thing, which means Sasuke gets more precognition benefits and physically can be slower but still match the output of someone with 1 or no Sharingan. That combines with the impact such tiredness could possibly have being too small to drop Sasuke a noteworthy level in physical output. So even if he was impaired, it would not be so much that someone who cleanly matches him should not be in the general level of V1 RK.


I think his various other fights also scale Kakashi to V1 RK, but I'm happy with those three points stacking together for now.





I think he had them the same, since there's no reason - evidentially - for why he may have 'half-healed' or somesuch. I think he just opted not to use them. Moves like Rashomon are not good when fighting multiple targets.


Even if he didn't have them, the physical health difference should be much bigger than the Rashomon benefit. Firstly in immediate output - movement - and secondly in stamina and concentration.


Thinking about the Manda gamble Kabuto spoke of, i also think Manda wouldn't tolerate 2 minutes worth of the Orochimaru who was barfing himself every few moments.