Madara would be a good Hokage.Period.

[Guntah]

You still didn't answer my question.How's Madara guided by his emotions when he decided to work with the persons who killed all his family? And by the way, I want a scan where Madara says for his clan to shut up because he loves fighting.

He wasn't. He managed it at the start, but eventually he let his emotions guide his actions once again and became overcome with hatred. As for the second request, I'm afraid that didn';t happen, but I do have two pages which, back-to-back show most of the Uchiha giving up and Madara, their Clan Head, refusing to follow their example.

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Stop apologizing Tobirama's actions. If it was just for him, Madara would be dead, but Hashirama had a bigger vsion than him, knowing that prejudice and revenge would only lead to darkness and then no Konohagakure. Actually I want to say something very clear: Tobirama didn't want to Konoha to be formed. And is true, because he made the village an extention of the Senju Clan

I'm not actively trying to defend Tobirama, his actions did lead to a lot of bad stuff, but you're trying to play him as the bad guy and Madara as the good guy, which is far from what actually happened. Saying Tobirama didn't want Konoha to be formed is also far from truth. He did share in Hashirama's wish for peace, but he too saw Madara as a warmonger. He wanted Konoha too, but he wanted Konoha without Madara.

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I don't think that it was Hashirama who influenced Danzou into the twisted mindset of sacrificing people for the village. Madara influenced Obito. Danzou was influenced by Tobirama.

Not everyone needs to be influenced by someone, and even if he assumed he was, he did get Tobirama's ideals all wrong. Tobirama dedicated his life to the village, but unlike Danzo, he never used treacherous or foul methods to make his vision come true. Sure, he put the Uchiha in the position of a police force and pushed them to the side, but he would've never done something to the level of what Danzo did with the Akatsuki. And Tobirama himself would know Danzo took these ideals to an extreme, otherwise he would've picked Danzo over Hiruzen to succeed him.

Take Madara out of the picture and Tobirama still is causing trouble. This mindset is Social Darwinism.

Take Tobirama out of the picture and Madara would've gotten into a war with Iwa the moment Ohnoki and Muu came knocking to ask for an alliance.

Yes it is. If you think that Madara's "riot" is unjustified, so is Tobirama's And he is just as a warmonger.

You know, just insisting that it is without replying to a made argument doesn't make it true.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

He wasn't. He managed it at the start, but eventually he let his emotions guide his actions once again and became overcome with hatred. As for the second request, I'm afraid that didn';t happen, but I do have two pages which, back-to-back show most of the Uchiha giving up and Madara, their Clan Head, refusing to follow their example.

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Izuna just as Tobirama was deeply rooted in ancient hatred. Madara would give in into Hashirama's request for peace. But Izuna didn't let him. And btw you can't expect someone who just lost his last family member go peace and love mode.

I'm not actively trying to defend Tobirama, his actions did lead to a lot of bad stuff, but you're trying to play him as the bad guy and Madara as the good guy, which is far from what actually happened. Saying Tobirama didn't want Konoha to be formed is also far from truth. He did share in Hashirama's wish for peace, but he too saw Madara as a warmonger. He wanted Konoha too, but he wanted Konoha without Madara.

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You may not be defending Tobirama but you're missing out important factor that made Madara the way he is now. Do you know why he couldn't become Hokage? Because of the constant prejudice against him. Tobirama could've become even worse if he was in the same situation as Madara.

Not everyone needs to be influenced by someone, and even if he assumed he was, he did get Tobirama's ideals all wrong. Tobirama dedicated his life to the village, but unlike Danzo, he never used treacherous or foul methods to make his vision come true. Sure, he put the Uchiha in the position of a police force and pushed them to the side, but he would've never done something to the level of what Danzo did with the Akatsuki. And Tobirama himself would know Danzo took these ideals to an extreme, otherwise he would've picked Danzo over Hiruzen to succeed him.

If Tobirama is so lovable, why didn't he step down, and said to Madara how much he wanted Uchiha and Senju to be on equal foot?

Take Tobirama out of the picture and Madara would've gotten into a war with Iwa the moment Ohnoki and Muu came knocking to ask for an alliance.

That was AFTER he saw the situation of prejudice against him was unstoppable and after defected the village. Actually I think you don't underatnd deeply the delicate situation he was in. I think this sums it up:

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You know, just insisting that it is without replying to a made argument doesn't make it true.

Listen, I understand that Madara was wrong after leaving the village.He was the leader and should have stood tall to prove the value of the Uchiha in a decisive time. He is not victim, actually he is a product of his time. Sadly he saw things ahead and that's why he said "Ignorance is bliss". Nor Tobirama nor Hashirama, and in the end not even him could truly let go of past hatred.

Although, you can't put the blame entirely on him. It is too much convenient to put the blame in someone who got tired of false "cooperation". You can't deny that if it wasn't for these little but important details Madara wouldn't step down.

 

[V h o]

Didn't seem like the villagers wanted him then....

 

[Guntah]

Izuna just as Tobirama was deeply rooted in ancient hatred. Madara would give in into Hashirama's request for peace. But Izuna didn't let him. And btw you can't expect someone who just lost his last family member go peace and love mode.

No he wouldn't. He paused for a moment, but that doesn't at all mean he would just give in and make peace with the Senju. Did he hesitate? Yes, but that doesn't mean that much. And yes, I know Madara was justified in being emotionally unstable, but that doesn't mean you can't blame him for the damage in his clan.

You may not be defending Tobirama but you're missing out important factor that made Madara the way he is now. Do you know why he couldn't become Hokage? Because of the constant prejudice against him. Tobirama could've become even worse if he was in the same situation as Madara.

Well, yeah, but like I said again and again, that prejudice didn't come out of nowhere. Madara did put himself in a very bad situation by prolonging the fight against the Senju, and while not all that was said about him might have been true, there is most definitely some truth in the prejudice.

If Tobirama is so lovable, why didn't he step down, and said to Madara how much he wanted Uchiha and Senju to be on equal foot?

I wouldn't call him lovable, but that is probably because he didn't fully trust the Uchiha. And again, seeing how things spiralled out of control from there, he wasn't all wrong.

That was AFTER he saw the situation of prejudice against him was unstoppable and after defected the village. Actually I think you don't underatnd deeply the delicate situation he was in. I think this sums it up.

No it doesn't. Not fully anyway. I said it once, I'll say it again, Madara might not be all that was said about him, but there is most definitely a root to the hatred directed at him. It didn't come out of nowhere. Madara didn't start out like an innocent cinnamon bun and was corrupted by society's thoughts of him, he did some pretty wrong shit. Sure, the exagerated prejudice didn't at all help out his case, but again, there is some truth to it.

Listen, I understand that Madara was wrong after leaving the village.He was the leader and should have stood tall to prove the value of the Uchiha in a decisive time. He is not victim, actually he is a product of his time. Sadly he saw things ahead and that's why he said "Ignorance is bliss". Nor Tobirama nor Hashirama, and in the end not even him could truly let go of past hatred.

Although, you can't put the blame entirely on him. It is too much convenient to put the blame in someone who got tired of false "cooperation". You can't deny that if it wasn't for these little but important details Madara wouldn't step down.

Yes, I do get it, Madara's circumstances were not fully his to blame. However, that's not what I'm arguing for. What I am arguing for is that from day one, putting all prejudice aside, Madara would still not make a good Hokage. I do think he too often put his emotions above what might be considered the greater good, and that might easily lead to war in the wrong circumstances.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Didn't seem like the villagers wanted him then....

I'll give you a clue who didn't let him become Hokage and badmouthed the Uchiha to no end, that the villagers were narrow minded enough to not let Madara become not even 2 Hokage ----ACTUALLY it was the only time when there was democracy in Konoha. And this guy is someone known as...........

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[V h o]

I'll give you a clue who didn't let him become Hokage and badmouthed the Uchiha to no end, that the villagers were narrow minded enough to not let Madara become not even 2 Hokage ----ACTUALLY it was the only time when there was democracy in Konoha. And this guy is someone known as...........

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So you're blaming tobirama because the village did not want madara? :lol If elections were held and he lost, then the people got who they wanted.

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

No he wouldn't. He paused for a moment, but that doesn't at all mean he would just give in and make peace with the Senju. Did he hesitate? Yes, but that doesn't mean that much. And yes, I know Madara was justified in being emotionally unstable, but that doesn't mean you can't blame him for the damage in his clan.



Well, yeah, but like I said again and again, that prejudice didn't come out of nowhere. Madara did put himself in a very bad situation by prolonging the fight against the Senju, and while not all that was said about him might have been true, there is most definitely some truth in the prejudice.



I wouldn't call him lovable, but that is probably because he didn't fully trust the Uchiha. And again, seeing how things spiralled out of control from there, he wasn't all wrong.




No it doesn't. Not fully anyway. I said it once, I'll say it again, Madara might not be all that was said about him, but there is most definitely a root to the hatred directed at him. It didn't come out of nowhere. Madara didn't start out like an innocent cinnamon bun and was corrupted by society's thoughts of him, he did some pretty wrong shit. Sure, the exagerated prejudice didn't at all help out his case, but again, there is some truth to it.



Yes, I do get it, Madara's circumstances were not fully his to blame. However, that's not what I'm arguing for. What I am arguing for is that from day one, putting all prejudice aside, Madara would still not make a good Hokage. I do think he too often put his emotions above what might be considered the greater good, and that might easily lead to war in the wrong circumstances.

Madara's timeline can be defined as this:

Protecting the Uchiha Clan
Protecting the Village
Protecting the Dream of Infinite Tsukuyomi

In the first stage he couldn't trust fully in the Senju Clan for known reasons.
After the result of the battle when he lost, he asked for a clue for him to trust the Senju again. That clue was kill Hashirama or Tobirama.
Afterwards, everything went rainbow mode since the trust and loyalty was lasting. He named the village. He constructed the Shinobi Academy. He battled together with Hashirama against clans who didn't want the alliance to last. And was ready to step in as Hokage and accept every villager as his siblings.

Until the situation of the past hatred comming up to dinner.

C'mon, if you can trust Tobirama as 2 Hokage, why not let Madara step in knowing that everything he did as Uchiha Clan Leader, Hashirama and Tobirama did too as Senju leaders?

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

So you're blaming tobirama because the village did not want madara? :lol If elections were held and he lost, then the people got who they wanted.

Are you protecting the guys who killed minorities and didn't care how much darkness there was in the ANBU? That's so nice of you:elmo:

Look I'm not blaming Tobirama for all the prejudice. But I'm saying that the "elections" were just to establish the Senju powerline in Konoha. The election was with obvious results, just to don't let Uchiha people become Hokage. That's why people are so stactic about Salad become Hokage.

And btw: explain to me why the other elections were did like this. That's some dictatorship here.

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[V h o]

Are you protecting the guys who killed minorities and didn't care how much darkness there was in the ANBU? That's so nice of you:elmo:

Look I'm not blaming Tobirama for all the prejudice. But I'm saying that the "elections" were just to establish the Senju powerline in Konoha. The election was with obvious results, just to don't let Uchiha people become Hokage. That's why people are so stactic about Salad become Hokage.

And btw: explain to me why the other elections were did like this. That's some dictatorship here.

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I never even mentioned tobirama :lol

I mean the village is made up of many clans, not just senju and these clans did not vote for madara :lol

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

I never even mentioned tobirama :lol

I mean the village is made up of many clans, not just senju and these clans did not vote for madara :lol

Could please at least try to undestand that Tobirama in this panel right here influenced the outcome of EVERYTHING? Like.....Having ANBU or not, Danzou or not, Uchiha massacre or not, Madara Not succubing to despair etc. But oh yes...

In the end it was really the better decision.:lol The Uchiha who voted against Mdara are dead and the Senju who wanted to go against Madara are now dictators in the Konoha system. They are so lovely and egalitarian

 

[V h o]

Could please at least try to undestand that Tobirama in this panel right here influenced the outcome of EVERYTHING? Like.....Having ANBU or not, Danzou or not, Uchiha massacre or not, Madara Not succubing to despair etc. But oh yes...

In the end it was really the better decision.:lol The Uchiha who voted against Mdara are dead and the Senju who wanted to go against Madara are now dictators in the Konoha system. They are so lovely and egalitarian

I mean madara lost to hashirama in the election first. And I'm aware of tobirama shortcomings.

 

[WalksInShadows]

I said this on the other thread, I'll say it here.

Madara was a warmonger

He turned his back on his friendship with Hashirama as soon as their fathers found out, which fair enough, but to go the extra mile to spend his next few years trying to kill Hashirama in revenge?

if you ever paid attention to their dialogue, it was about Madara believing the survival of his ppl was more important than trying to fulfill what seemed like a pipe dream. If Madara was a warmonger for that, then so was every other clan in Fire Country. Not a single one of them bothered to strike any truces until Madara finally accepted Hashirama's, but i don't see you calling them a warmonger.

And when he lost his brother. He, as a clan head, went against the desires of his own Uchiha clansmen who were surrendering to the Senju and attacked Hashirama himself. He forced conflict in between the two clans when neither party wanted it over personal feelings on the situation rather than the wellbeing of the Uchiha.

this is barely true, because Madara told Hashirama that he tried to convince the other Uchiha that the only way to avoid their destruction was to leave the village with him. You're still clinging to the old narrative of the story Obito and Itachi told.

We know very little of adult Madara before the village, but despite his ideals, he was no Hokage material. Had he become the Shodaime, he would've remained a warmonger, a man guided by his emotions, and if it ever got to that, he wouldn't have hesitated to go to war again as he's clearly shown to do in the past. With Madara as a Hokage, the series would start with more than three wars and less than five villages. Tobirama was completely justified in not allowing Hashirama to grant him the title.

it's pretty hilarious that you say that when Konoha managed to get itself involved in 3 perfectly avoidable Great Shinobi Wars without him being there.

Madara's defection.....I could make a list just about how WRONG Madara was to leave. I'm going to admit here something: HE WAS A COWARD for not staying in the village and prove how wrong and unjustified was all the prejudice against him and the Uchiha.ad he stayed, I'm sure Tobirama would be unmasked and prejudice in the village would be a more clarified matter. It wouldn't be something for the Upper Shinobi to decide - who became Senju oriented- but something that could be worked on. Had he stayed, I'm sure Tobirama would be unmasked and prejudice in the village would be a more clarified matter. It wouldn't be something for the Upper Shinobi to decide - who became Senju oriented- but something that could be worked on.

nothing changed with generations of Uchiha spending their existence breaking their backs in service to the village all the way to their end, so it only serves to validate at least one of a few reasons why Madara was right in leaving. Madara wearing himself out trying to acquire a position he never cared about makes no sense anyway, especially because he cared more about how a more permanent peace could be obtained than than politics. Leaving and being remembered as the rogue who fought Konoha's beloved Shodaime took more guts than staying.

 

[Guntah]

if you ever paid attention to their dialogue, it was about Madara believing the survival of his ppl was more important than trying to fulfill what seemed like a pipe dream. If Madara was a warmonger for that, then so was every other clan in Fire Country. Not a single one of them bothered to strike any truces until Madara finally accepted Hashirama's, but i don't see you calling them a warmonger.

You're missing the point.

Madara is not wrong because he chose to turn back on Hashirama and his friendship. Madara however is quite wrong for spending the next few years trying to kill Hashirama because of that rather than letting go and moving on.

this is barely true, because Madara told Hashirama that he tried to convince the other Uchiha that the only way to avoid their destruction was to leave the village with him. You're still clinging to the old narrative of the story Obito and Itachi told.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm talking about the story told by Hashirama.

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it's pretty hilarious that you say that when Konoha managed to get itself involved in 3 perfectly avoidable Great Shinobi Wars without him being there.

Its pretty hilarious that you can safely say that all three wars were perfectly avoidable when we're never given a single clear reason as to what triggered them.

 

[Guntah]

C'mon, if you can trust Tobirama as 2 Hokage, why not let Madara step in knowing that everything he did as Uchiha Clan Leader, Hashirama and Tobirama did too as Senju leaders?

Because I just cannot give Madara credit when the one thing we saw him do as the Uchiha Clan leader was to prolong a war against the wishes of his own clansmen. It is not a good first impression of his leadership.

 

[Tyris]

A Hokage that kills his own family and then threatens his village. So much Hokage. :sdo2: That's the guy I would die in war for. :elmo:

Good thing your fap logic and opinion matters not next to kishi's writing and drawings:bdpf:

Protecting the light from the shadows like the boss m'Lord Crow has always been whether in life or death.

Rather a true hokage than a butthurt manipulated BZ tool lol

Shouts to RinneganHumanPuppet tho

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Good thing your fap logic and opinion matters not next to kishi's writing and drawings:bdpf:

Protecting the light from the shadows like the boss m'Lord Crow has always been whether in life or death.

Rather a true hokage than a butthurt manipulated BZ tool lol

Shouts to RinneganHumanPuppet tho

What I said it is in the manga though....:|

And really, I didn't use this kind of language with you. Be reasonable and don't use it with me again.

 

[Tyris]

What I said it is in the manga though....:|

And really, I didn't use this kind of language with you. Be reasonable and don't use it with me again.

What I've said was thoroughly explained(ItaSamas actions) in manga also.. unlike MoodyMadz m'Lord ItaSama lived and died adhering to the shinobi code as well as that of a hokage hence Kishi drawing that fat panel declaring and praising m'Lord Crow as True Hokage..

To bad Madz couldn't see past his clan albeit I do understand that due to tobirama he was screwed out of becoming what Hashi even suggested for him: first hokage.

I could be reasonable yet alas I probably shan't in the face of demand(s).

I don't know not Care if it was the usage of fap or calling Madz as he was.. facts are facts...

Shouts to kishimoto & the ultimate Madara fact poster R.H.P. -may he trap in peace

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

What I've said was thoroughly explained(ItaSamas actions) in manga also.. unlike MoodyMadz m'Lord ItaSama lived and died adhering to the shinobi code as well as that of a hokage hence Kishi drawing that fat panel declaring and praising m'Lord Crow as True Hokage..

To bad Madz couldn't see past his clan albeit I do understand that due to tobirama he was screwed out of becoming what Hashi even suggested for him: first hokage.

I could be reasonable yet alas I probably shan't in the face of demand(s).

I don't know not Care if it was the usage of fap or calling Madz as he was.. facts are facts...

Shouts to kishimoto & the ultimate Madara fact poster R.H.P. -may he trap in peace

It's fine that your opinion is different from mine.
Although nobody is threatening you. I just asked you to be polite with your language, so nobody gets offended. These are basic rules of good education. If you don't understand, it just confirms where you come from and how low you are.:tea:
But I'm sure you understand my side since you are a clarified person. Have a good day.

 

[Tyris]

It's fine that your opinion is different from mine.
Although nobody is threatening you. I just asked you to be polite with your language, so nobody gets offended. These are basic rules of good education. If you don't understand, it just confirms where you come from and how low you are.:tea:
But I'm sure you understand my side since you are a clarified person. Have a good day.

Lol I didn't read. Your feelings don't matter so instead of being hypersensitive and salty focus on topic at hand or don't quote me.

ad hominem like a mf lol all that typing and yet none of it relates to op :bdpf:

 

[UCHIHAKUNOICHI]

Lol I didn't read. Your feelings don't matter so instead of being hypersensitive and salty focus on topic at hand or don't quote me.

ad hominem like a mf lol all that typing and yet none of it relates to op :bdpf:

Oh you didn't understand. That's ok. You are a sloppy, dirty blood, low person anyways. I'm warning. Don't enter my threads anymore.