Madara was right all along, about mankind and reality

narutoblitz

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Uchiha Madara was a man that sought peace on his own terms, the world of Mugen Tsukyomi. Despite BZ's influence, he gained power far in excess of what BZ thought possible. He gained dual Rinnegan, summoned the Gedo Mazo, plotted his own resurrection, indoctrinated Obito and Nagato. He even had a fail-safe if some idiot like Kabuto didn't resurrect him. Notice how Madara said he had another associate that thought the way he did?

Madara's claims were simple:

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Man seeks peace, prepares for war. Japan seeks peace, prepares for war. America seeks peace, starts more wars than any other nation. Naruto as Hokage seeks peace, other nations plot war and distrust him as an irresponsible (late) leader that barely controls his own kid.

Well-meaning fools like Hashirama create inconsistent nations, lead idiots down the path to war. It's a causal reality that cannot be avoided. Look at our real world, is it any different? Rednecks vote for Bush, we go to war for decades in the Middle East. The reasons don't even matter.

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Thinking of peace while spilling blood, it is something only mankind does. Harnessing the engine of their own destruction, whether it be a nuclear bomb. Or a Juubi, or bio-chemical weapons the Americans gave Saddam decades ago.

To protect what we care for, who we care for... Another is sacrificed. Someone wins, and someone loses.

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Pain is inevitable as long as you live, felt as proof you are alive. Pain that consumes every moment of your life, unless one escapes to a dream world. Whether it be manga, video games, mugen tsukyomi or the Internet. The real world is like that, there are winners, and there are losers.

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Look at reality. It's filled with things that don't go as people wish for. Shattered dreams. Pain in people's hearts. Emptiness and yearning, people dying and living like trash. Leaving it to the next generation because we messed it up.

Light begets darkness,winners beget losers. Selfishly wishing for peace brings the world to war and hate is born. To protect what is loved. Mankinds absurd ego, its desire for innovation and peace. The desire for self,and the desire to not let go of one's self or their friends... American ideologies of democracy, peace or selfishness.

That is what has led our world to war. Yes, I am saying that for peace to exist, the sense of self must be annihilated. American societal values, the nation on which it is predicated..

Man's ego created this failed world, and it will one day lead to its end. Kishimoto had a chance to give us a real ending, where love, peace and friendship don't always magically win. Instead we got the happy sunset typical manga ending. I can't say I am surprised, but I am disappointed.
 

Stark

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Indeed his ideals were just but the way he wanted to correct the world was robbing people of their free will, he had the right idea though.. somewhat..
 

Angelic.

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naruto>you.
sasuke lost.
 

PlatinumTitan

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Uchiha Madara was a man that sought peace on his own terms, the world of Mugen Tsukyomi. Despite BZ's influence, he gained power far in excess of what BZ thought possible. He gained dual Rinnegan, summoned the Gedo Mazo, plotted his own resurrection, indoctrinated Obito and Nagato. He even had a fail-safe if some idiot like Kabuto didn't resurrect him. Notice how Madara said he had another associate that thought the way he did?

Madara's claims were simple:

You must be registered for see images


Man seeks peace, prepares for war. Japan seeks peace, prepares for war. America seeks peace, starts more wars than any other nation. Naruto as Hokage seeks peace, other nations plot war and distrust him as an irresponsible (late) leader that barely controls his own kid.

Well-meaning fools like Hashirama create inconsistent nations, lead idiots down the path to war. It's a causal reality that cannot be avoided. Look at our real world, is it any different? Rednecks vote for Bush, we go to war for decades in the Middle East. The reasons don't even matter.

You must be registered for see images


Thinking of peace while spilling blood, it is something only mankind does. Harnessing the engine of their own destruction, whether it be a nuclear bomb. Or a Juubi, or bio-chemical weapons the Americans gave Saddam decades ago.

To protect what we care for, who we care for... Another is sacrificed. Someone wins, and someone loses.

You must be registered for see images


Pain is inevitable as long as you live, felt as proof you are alive. Pain that consumes every moment of your life, unless one escapes to a dream world. Whether it be manga, video games, mugen tsukyomi or the Internet. The real world is like that, there are winners, and there are losers.

You must be registered for see images


Look at reality. It's filled with things that don't go as people wish for. Shattered dreams. Pain in people's hearts. Emptiness and yearning, people dying and living like trash. Leaving it to the next generation because we messed it up.

Light begets darkness,winners beget losers. Selfishly wishing for peace brings the world to war and hate is born. To protect what is loved. Mankinds absurd ego, its desire for innovation and peace. The desire for self,and the desire to not let go of one's self or their friends... American ideologies of democracy, peace or selfishness.

That is what has led our world to war. Yes, I am saying that for peace to exist, the sense of self must be annihilated. American societal values, the nation on which it is predicated..

Man's ego created this failed world, and it will one day lead to its end. Kishimoto had a chance to give us a real ending, where love, peace and friendship don't always magically win. Instead we got the happy sunset typical manga ending. I can't say I am surprised, but I am disappointed.

True. But Madara's plan to fix this was basically Communism.
 

narutoblitz

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I'm not really sure Sasuke lost. Neither of them could move at the end of the fight, both lost an arm. Sasuke probably could have moved and killed Naruto, or vice versa. Neither wanted to by the end. I think it's safe to call it a draw. Sasuke's ideals lost, because in the end he was not even believing in what he said.

I feel Sasuke made a very valid point about the Shinobi alliance going right back to their own villages, their old ways and not trusting each other. I doubt we get a follow up to that idea, but the truth is the world wouldn't really stay at peace with Naruto being the effective Jinch. of 8 of the 9 tailed beasts (possibly all 9). The other villages would resent Konoha having that much power, plus a Rinnegan user.

Hopefully part 3 addresses these inconsistencies, and how the world isn't at peace yet.
 

Vapid

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Simply put: Madara wasn't wrong and definitely had a point. Why do you think no one had a true counter to his ideology and plans?
 

KingHashirama

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If its filled "darkness".. why not become like Naruto.. and not make it into darkness?

Simply put: Madara wasn't wrong and definitely had a point. Why do you think no one had a true counter to his ideology and plans?
Because he contradicted his own ideology. Can't debate with hypocrites mate. Plus, apparently any thing Naruto says is made irrelevant by Sasuke and Madara supporters.
 

narutoblitz

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Because in a world without God/S06P, Naruto gets the 9 tails extracted and dies a miserable death, alongside Hashi and Sasuke. The real world is like that, evil tends to win. Good people die young, and well... it's just not a realistic outlook on life or mankind. Humanity's track record gives every reason to doubt our survival as a species.
 

KingHashirama

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Because in a world without God/S06P, Naruto gets the 9 tails extracted and dies a miserable death, alongside Hashi and Sasuke. The real world is like that, evil tends to win. Good people die young, and well... it's just not a realistic outlook on life or mankind. Humanity's track record gives every reason to doubt our survival as a species.
Good people die young, because society doesn't want to voice out against corruption together. Hence why the main focus of NARUTO before he took on Madara/Obito was UNITY. As united people who can change.
 

Ambivalence

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Madara wasn't wrong, but he wasn't right either. The ending made it feel like true peace was finally achieved (somehow), but it was never really expanded on. Still, facts are facts, and anything further is fanfiction. I really would have liked to see what kind of a Hokage he would be, if he was chosen instead of Hashirama.

Realistically, Madara is right. When it comes to the Narutoverse, however, it seems he was wrong. Everything's going smoothly without the need for Infinite Tsukuyomi. This is why i like Madara, he is literally out of this (Naruto's) world. A true realist...
 

Vapid

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Because he contradicted his own ideology. Can't debate with hypocrites mate. Plus, apparently any thing Naruto says is made irrelevant by Sasuke and Madara supporters.
How was it contradictory? Oh wait, it wasn't.

That's not it; it's the fact that he didn't have a genuine answer/counter to Madara's ideals and beliefs at all. The closest thing was, "This is just a big lie!!!"

Way to counter, Nardo. You really convinced Madara with that one. :rolleyes:
 

ItachiSan03

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Turning people into vegetables so there is no interaction is not peace. It's the same as if we nuked the planet our turned everyone into turnips. Peace? Not really, it resembles peace just because there's no interaction hence no conflict.

There's no answer for peace. Humans have differences. Differences create disagreement, disagreement creates conflict, conflict creates war. War and conflict is a fact of life, fighting it is like fighting death. Can't handle it? Go kill yourself. That's pretty much IT, it's a state of suspended death.

And also... It's a manga. It's not real life. Stories don't always reflect real life.

I need to stop rambling. Need to do my school. F*ck. Maybe IT isn't so bad after all.
 

Darth Uchiha

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Looks like you could use some Cymbalta, friend.
 

Remedy

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Turning people into vegetables so there is no interaction is not peace. It's the same as if we nuked the planet our turned everyone into turnips. Peace? Not really, it resembles peace just because there's no interaction hence no conflict.

There's no answer for peace. Humans have differences. Differences create disagreement, disagreement creates conflict, conflict creates war. War and conflict is a fact of life, fighting it is like fighting death. Can't handle it? Go kill yourself. That's pretty much IT, it's a state of suspended death.

And also... It's a manga. It's not real life. Stories don't always reflect real life.

I need to stop rambling. Need to do my school. F*ck. Maybe IT isn't so bad after all.

Thread soloed.
 

Vapid

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Turning people into vegetables so there is no interaction is not peace. It's the same as if we nuked the planet our turned everyone into turnips. Peace? Not really, it resembles peace just because there's no interaction hence no conflict.

There's no answer for peace. Humans have differences. Differences create disagreement, disagreement creates conflict, conflict creates war. War and conflict is a fact of life, fighting it is like fighting death. Can't handle it? Go kill yourself. That's pretty much IT, it's a state of suspended death.

And also... It's a manga. It's not real life. Stories don't always reflect real life.

I need to stop rambling. Need to do my school. F*ck. Maybe IT isn't so bad after all.
Typical mortal, thinking that humans are a necessity to true peace and that peace only applies to them. Lol

Madara knew that humans were flawed creatures -- something we, as a species, are too stubborn and ignorant to admit ourselves.
 

STOPGAI2014

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lol at this forum. People on here think madara has the philosophy to correct the world
 

Vapid

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lol at this forum. People on here think madara has the philosophy to correct the world
Yes, yes he did. Plebs will never understand Lord Madara's greatness (not calling you a pleb, btw).
 

ItachiSan03

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Typical mortal, thinking that humans are a necessity to true peace and that peace only applies to them. Lol

Madara knew that humans were flawed creatures -- something we, as a species, are too stubborn and ignorant to admit ourselves.

Yes, I'm still here! :rage:
OT: I really don't know what you mean, especially when you say "typical mortal". Care to elaborate?
And yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Humans - no, life in general - are incapable of peace, trying to find some secret answer to it is impossible. When you try to find peace you come up with wack ideas like Madara did - hey, lets turn everybody into inanimate objects, hooray for peace!
 
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