[Theory] Madara Uchiha & Tobi - The Connections

[Viewtiful]

Thanks guys.

 

[Illyasviel]

I tihnk also Tobi is Madara and edo Madara is Izuna actualy because the real Madara had Hashiram DNA Tobi has also,Izuna then died but not b4 he achived rinnengan and gave his eyes to Madara for sfe keeping and told him to put the eyes in some boy and that that boy would revive him-Nagato

 

[DJay16]

I still dis-agree with you Viewtiful, but regardless of my opinion, Great Job on all the research.

 

[Pube]

He says "Or are you going by Madara now" by the way. The point of the statement was.... that he initially was called Tobi and then started claiming to be Madara. That doesn't really indicate any inside knowledge since it's just a statement of the facts. o.o Also, that was a typo earlier. Tobi wasn't supposed to be there (corrected version): However, Kabuto has already mentioned his lack of detailed knowledge on Madara and the plan he and Madara have been planning for all those decades.

So youre saying...that Kabuto says, "Or are you going by Madara now"...Then summons the Edo Madara coffin... And just means "ohh well you were called Tobi and now you go by Madara.... Oh and and heres your Edo summoning".

How can you try to say that the point of all that wasnt to prove Kabuto knows Tobi isnt Madara...You just are so set on the fact that Tobi is Madara your looking past obvious statements and actions.

The POINT of the statement was to let Tobi know hes not fooling Kabuto about his identity

And Kabuto mentions his lack of knowledge about Tobis plans...He never says he doesnt know much about Tobi himself.

nice......i have a similar theory based off the principles of edo-tensai and your info helps back it up sorta

i came up with it after the kin/gin fight when atsui and samui had their souls removed yet continued to live...... and immediatly thought of "shell of his former self"

anyway to try and not repost my whole theory here...... edo-tensai requires soul to be in pure world

and its said thats where your soul goes when you die.....but it doesn't say that your automatically dead if your soul is there

between mito uzumaki and hashirama senju its possible that a sealing jutsu could exist that robbed madara of his soul and trapped it in the pure world

this would justify why tobi/madara both wanted nagato's gedo mazo tech.

and why both could exist at the very same time (edo-tensai only requires soul to be in pure world and DNA)

-Madara is a soul trapped in a zombie body
-tobi is madara's souless senju/hybrid body

Dude...there are so many holes in this theory Shia LeBouf is starring in a movie about them...

 

[molotovzav]

I would have to say we all know for sure the edo is Madara, its a matter of who Tobi really is, my boyfriend is like "tobi, is tobirama", and I'm like "if only it was that easy", (he ignores the shinigami taking him) I still think Izuna, they showed us Izuna dead in the manga, but appearances are deceiving. I really just can't wait till we figure it out, I won't even care if I'm wrong, I just want to know.

 

[milesk182]

One thing noted from most others mangas as well, If Tobi has a mask then that means we know who he is if the mask was to be taken off. There would be no need for a mask unless it's a character that is already been seen and the audience would react like HOLY **** it's _______, but you get the point from what i am saying. I do not think the theory's of Tobi being the So6P has any light because we don't know what that guy looks like. To me it would either be Izuna or someone else? Kishi could surprise us with him being Madara but one word LAME. Guess time will tell but i still stay true to the fact, there is NO need for the mask unless we already have seen the character underneath.

 

[Zato]

I highly doubt Tobi is Izuna. Usually in these series they won't show a flash back of something that is false or told as a lie. They seemingly always show flashbacks as something cannon. So I'm pretty sure the flash back of Izuna's death was to be taken seriously. Kabuto keeps referring to Tobi as the "fake Madara" this could mean he is a clone of Madara made through possibly Zetsu or a complete Izanagi. The aging on his face is an indicator he has been around for sometime.

 

[Yanto]

Heya NarutoBase members. I just joined the site a little while ago (admittedly because ***********'s forums are down, but hey ). Anyway, this'll be my first thread, but don't discount it based on the title. There's more to the issue than you may think/know. I also apologize if this thread topic has been done a quintillion times.

Okay, as we all know, Madara Uchiha was resurrected about a dozen chapters ago, so that completely blows out of the water this theory that Tobi is still somehow him? Well, not quite. Okay, so here we go:

The weakest point in my theory is that they both mention Nagato, specifically that he's suppose to use Gedo Rinne Tensei to resurrect him (Edo Madara) and for "my purposes" (Tobi). This isn't much, as it could simply indicate that Tobi was going to in fact have Nagato revive Madara as planned. Meh, ignore this point. My others are much better. He has also stated to have obtained Hashirama's DNA in his battle with him, stating that to be his reason for fighting him, which Edo Madara said as well.

Reputability

Okay, so there have been many characters in the series who believed the "Masked Man" in Akatsuki is Madara. Most of those that believed in that are some of the strongest and most intelligent ninja alive/to ever come out of their respective villages:
-Itachi
-Kakashi
-Konan
-Nagato (it seems)
-Kisame
-Minato (especially him)
It would be very odd for Kishi to essentially go "LOL, nope, you guys is wrong"

Now, I actually left some characters off that list for this point: previous encounters. Onoki had fought/knew Madara in the distant past, yet he never cast any real doubt on Tobi's claim, even when he met him in person, which is rather odd, and even he couldn't think of who else Tobi could be, though he did find it odd that Tobi was resorting to a rather roundabout method to obtain the Tailed Beasts.

Spoiler

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The biggest offender is Kurama, who has been controlled by both Madara and Tobi. He seemed to recognize Tobi (whether as Madara or simply familiarity, who knows), as when he spotted him, he said "You...".
Even Jiraiya, who had no knowledge of Akatsuki's "Masked Man" believed purely based off of Minato's seemingly rash actions and the sudden appearance of Kurama 16 years ago that Madara was the only person who could have done it.

Spoiler

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This part is just an example, not to be taken as what I believe happened, just kind of a thing I find suspect.
The chapter directly before Madara was revealed to be the summon in Kabuto's sixth coffin, Mu demonstrated to us a way for two being to be separate, yet equally real, his

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. Just some food for thought.

Statements by Tobi Himself

Of course, Tobi's statements must be taken with a grain of salt, since some of them are half-truths (coercing Sasuke into his current state) and others downright lies (telling Sasuke he didn't bring Kurama to Konoha that day). However, this case was rather different. At the end of his fight with Konan -who I add he was about to kill and there was no one else around- he stated that he was Madara.

Spoiler

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Now, unless you're going to say he was lying to himself, I think that's pretty solid evidence. And it's not like he had to worry about Kabuto finding anything out by resurrecting her, since he already knew about his Edo Tensei.


Word of God (look it up on TV Tropes if you don't know what that means)
(My number one point)
We've been given a statement written by Kishimoto himself that Tobi and Madara are one and the same, with zero doubt or ambiguity in the 3rd Databook. Now, you may say "Well, the DBs don't tell us stuff before they happen", which is true. However, they never explicitly lie about something that is ambiguous or hasn't been fleshed out by Kishi yet. About all they do is slight revisions, such as Wood Release initially being a Hiden technique in the 2nd, then changed to a KKG in the 3rd; small stuff like that. More to the point, here are the contents of Madara's article and Tobi's article (as translated by ShounenSuki over on the Naruto wiki):

From Madara's article:
"Madara disappeared from history and, donning a mask, started moving as Tobi." (歴史から姿を消したマダラは、仮面を被り、トビとして動き出す。, Rekishi kara sugata o keshita Madara wa, kamen o kaburi, Tobi toshite ugokidasu.)

From Tobi's article:
"Uchiha Madara — That is Tobi's real name." (うちはマダラ——それがトビの本当の名前だ。, Uchiha Madara—— Sore ga Tobi no hontō no namae da.)

ShounenSuki has said that it would be very uncharacteristic of Kishimoto's writing style and the language itself to simply lie after making an absolute statement like that. And this was WAAAAYYYY back when the whole Tobi-Madara thing wasn't too clear.

To wrap up, I'm not saying with certainty that I know Tobi is Madara...somehow. I'm saying that even despite the resurrection, there's far too many connections, statements and oddities regarding the two to discount it. Rather, it makes far more sense to be him than some of the nonsense things I've seen on various forums, such as Fugaku, etc, which would make no sense or even be meaningful, with Obito being the dumbest of all theories.
Anyway, what are y'alls thoughts? Sorry for the looooonnnng post, I like to explain myself thoroughly. xDDD

Hes not madara thats all there is to it

Not necessarily, given that there's is a plethora of evidence from multiple sources that he is. Things are rarely "that's all there is to it" in this series.

its certainly a possibility

Ehh, the way Madara talks about Tobi to Kabuto makes me think otherwise...Also, why would he be so freaked out about Kabuto having an Edo Madara. And then the whole conversation between Kabuto and Edo Madara about Tobi.. " I am HIS assistant"..It just wouldnt make sense if Tobi was still madara after the way they were talking about him. Just go back and read those chapters... Oh and also the sarcastic way Kabuto calls Tobi madara in the chapter where we first see the coffin and Tobi pretty much calls him a smart-ass for it. Im just not seeing, sorry.

+rep
i like the theory