Madara or Itachi > Indra

123fire

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No, because those are the things that annoy me the least. I'm a lover of storytelling and appreciate this series more than most people in this site care to do, but this whole thing is just horrible writing.

What annoys me more than anything is that this is on the way characters are portrayed. Indra is a complete brat. Sasuke had his clan murdered, Madara lost his brothers and both were still interesting characters throughout it all. Indra has no reason to justify his turn. It just happens and all of the sudden he's an emotionless jerk, which goes so much against the message of the Uchiha actually being good people turned by their genes and the situation they were put in, it makes me cringe. Ashura is a wimp. He's certainly not as bad as his brother, but he does nothing to deserve the power he's ultimately given, a power Naruto and Sasuke had to go through so much to prove themselves as worthy while Ashura just takes the first steps on that journey before being handed it by free. Hagoromo is an idiot in this arc. How can someone fail to guide his two sons so badly to the point of something like this happening? He never makes an attempt to put Indra in the right path, he just lets them do their own thing and when it doesn't work out Ashura is the one who most solve it.

The plot is passable for the most part, but when it fails to portray properly the very situation which it was made to portray, it just shows that it shouldn't be touched on in the first place.

Call me childish and stupid, but I stand by my point. I'm not even one to criticise filler that much, but this one was bad. Not like normal bad, like "ruining potentially interesting characters" bad.

In the manga it was said indra thought power is everything , and ashura thought love is everything . So indra changed because he was just obsessed with power and disagreed with his brother . In the manga too indra has such a personality . Kishi didn't say he changed because someone he loved died
 

Guntah

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In the manga it was said indra thought power is everything , and ashura thought love is everything . So indra changed because he was just obsessed with power and disagreed with his brother . In the manga too indra has such a personality . Kishi didn't say he changed because someone he loved died

Alright, we see Uchiha adopting twisted beliefs and goals throughout the manga, all for different reasons. That's nothing new. Yep, Indra thought power was everything...but why?

Sasuke wanted to destroy Konoha because of the attrocities they forced his brother to do.

Obito wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because the loss of Rin led him to believe that the world around him is hell and thus wanted to create a world that wasn't.

Madara wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because he reached the conclusion that true world peace was impossible otherwise.

What is Indra's excuse for doing everything he did?
 

Styles

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Yes the manga gave us all we need to scale Ashura's avatar, Indra's avatar and Madara's avatar, like I explained, you just are denying it.
Lol you're acting dense trying to scale it on the diamond but forgot that Kishi draw Indra's up close. Madara's faraway and Sasuke's normally. Madara's PS is in no way shape or form bigger than Indra's that's just stupid.
That's wood golem, brah.

Buda statue though....

You must be registered for see images
Uh I just admitted that I mistyped it.
 

davidou

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Lol you're acting dense trying to scale it on the diamond but forgot that Kishi draw Indra's up close. Madara's faraway and Sasuke's normally. Madara's PS is in no way shape or form bigger than Indra's that's just stupid.

Uh I just admitted that I mistyped it.

You seem to be near the understanding.

No matter how far they are drawn, because the bodies (the measuring tools) are in the exact same plan as their diamonds (the object to measure), at the exact same distance of the viewer, because the bodies are in the diamonds, now we can ay that Madar's diamond is 5 bodies of diameter and that Indra's diamond has a 2 bodies diameter.
Madara is 1.88m tall, so Madara's diamond has a 10 meters diameter.
Unless Indra was more than 5 meters tall, Indra's Susano'o is smaller in size.
 
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Styles

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You seem to be near the understanding.

No matter how far they are drawn, because the bodies (the measuring tools) are in the exact same plan as their diamonds (the object to measure), at the exact same distance of the viewer, because the bodies are in the diamonds, now we can ay that Madar's diamond is 5 bodies of diameter and that Indra's diamond has a 2 bodies diameter.
Madara is 1.88m tall, so Madara's diamond has a 10 meters diameter.
Unless Indra was more than 5 meters tall, Indra's Susano'o is smaller in size.
So Madara's PS >> someone with Hagoromo's chakra. Yea no.
Its disputable. Madara had the Rinnegan.
And even with that though it was still the size of wood golem and Kurama. Ashura's avatar was literally almost the same size as Indra's PS head.
 

davidou

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So Madara's PS >> someone with Hagoromo's chakra. Yea no.

Lol, have you read the manga?

Even if Madara didn't have Hago's chakra and Indra did, that's not countering the manga fact that Indra's susano'o is way smaller.
But in fact, it is completely the opposite of what you understood of the manga: Madara has Hagoromo's chakra, unlike Indra.
Have you read the manga, really?I mean, do you remember the basic fact that Ashura's chakra+Indra's chakra=Hagoromo's chakra?

...
 
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Styles

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Lol, have you read the manga?

Even if Madara didn't have Hago's chakra and Indra did, that's not countering the manga fact that Indra's susano'o is way smaller.
But in fact, it is completely the opposite of what you understood of the manga: Madara has Hagoromo's chakra, unlike Indra.
Have you read the manga, really?I mean, do you remember the basic fact that Ashura's chakra+Indra's chakra=Hagoromo's chakra?

...
Read the manga? The manga is what is showing that Indra's PS is bigger than Madara's but you keep trying to make false measures of their height to try and make a point despite kishi drawing Madara's PS far away and Indra's up close. Yea no you need to go and read the manga since you think otherwise.

But I'm done debating this because you're just gonna keep saying the same thing.
 

Your Creepy Stalker

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Read the manga? The manga is what is showing that Indra's PS is bigger than Madara's but you keep trying to make false measures of their height to try and make a point despite kishi drawing Madara's PS far away and Indra's up close. Yea no you need to go and read the manga since you think otherwise.

But I'm done debating this because you're just gonna keep saying the same thing.

Really? The Manga shows Indra's PS is larger than Madara's? Do go on explaining, with all the one panel that Indra's PS takes up.
 

SilverfoxUchiha

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And even with that though it was still the size of wood golem and Kurama. Ashura's avatar was literally almost the same size as Indra's PS head.

Huh? Ashuras Avatar is shown to be in the distance with Indras Susanoo drawn closer. Ashuras Avatar was NOT the same size as the Susanoos head.
 

davidou

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Read the manga? The manga is what is showing that Indra's PS is bigger than Madara's but you keep trying to make false measures of their height to try and make a point despite kishi drawing Madara's PS far away and Indra's up close. Yea no you need to go and read the manga since you think otherwise.

But I'm done debating this because you're just gonna keep saying the same thing.

lol

You keep saying Indra>Madara although you have no reasonning to back it up, my point is uncounterable, it's just observation of scans of the manga.

Huh? Ashuras Avatar is shown to be in the distance with Indras Susanoo drawn closer. Ashuras Avatar was NOT the same size as the Susanoos head.

Yes, it was.If you were right, Ashura's body in his avatar would be smaller than Indra's body in his Susano'o.And the 2 bodies are about the same size, meaning that they are in the same plan and that Ashura's avatar is the size of the head of Indra's Susano'o.
 
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Scryed

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Alright, we see Uchiha adopting twisted beliefs and goals throughout the manga, all for different reasons. That's nothing new. Yep, Indra thought power was everything...but why?

Sasuke wanted to destroy Konoha because of the attrocities they forced his brother to do.

Obito wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because the loss of Rin led him to believe that the world around him is hell and thus wanted to create a world that wasn't.

Madara wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because he reached the conclusion that true world peace was impossible otherwise.

What is Indra's excuse for doing everything he did?

As far I remember, Indra simply thought Power was the key to peace. More or less peace through force like Nagato's way of striking fear to bring peace, IT plunging everyone into an illusion by force, or simply subduing everyone through power. That's why he relied on power over mutual understanding.

Why he did what he did seems to be because he didn't find his brother to be strong enough or thought that having Ashura as the successor wouldn't accomplish anything in regards to peace since he though Ashura didn't have the power to protect his ideals.


That's how I see it anyways. Too bad his story wasn't explained in detail.
 

Guntah

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As far I remember, Indra simply thought Power was the key to peace. More or less peace through force like Nagato's way of striking fear to bring peace, IT plunging everyone into an illusion by force, or simply subduing everyone through power. That's why he relied on power over mutual understanding.

Why he did what he did seems to be because he didn't find his brother to be strong enough or thought that having Ashura as the successor wouldn't accomplish anything in regards to peace since he though Ashura didn't have the power to protect his ideals.


That's how I see it anyways. Too bad his story wasn't explained in detail.

Yeah, but was there anything that led him to this belief? What was the breaking point? All Uchiha believed what they did becayse of a realization. Obito's, for example, thought the world around him was all hell after witnessing Rin's death. What did Indra go through to forsake everything and everyone for the sake of power?
 

123fire

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Alright, we see Uchiha adopting twisted beliefs and goals throughout the manga, all for different reasons. That's nothing new. Yep, Indra thought power was everything...but why?

Sasuke wanted to destroy Konoha because of the attrocities they forced his brother to do.

Obito wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because the loss of Rin led him to believe that the world around him is hell and thus wanted to create a world that wasn't.

Madara wanted to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi because he reached the conclusion that true world peace was impossible otherwise.

What is Indra's excuse for doing everything he did?

Ask kishi...
 
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Madara's PS is bigger than SM Mokujin as shown here


Madara's V4 Susanoo (only chest and head) = Full Kurama in size w/o tails.

So there is no chance in the world that base Mokujin is the same size of PS

Kurama >=base Mokujin


So I would say: PS > SM Mokuijn > Full Kurama = half V4 Susanoo >=base Mokujin.

Buddha's main body is bigger than PS but around the same size I think, something similar to how PS is bigger than SM Moukjin.
But, the whole Buddha (including hand) is far, far bigger than PS without a doubt.
IMO Indra PS is >= Madara's.
 
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Scryed

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Yeah, but was there anything that led him to this belief? What was the breaking point? All Uchiha believed what they did becayse of a realization. Obito's, for example, thought the world around him was all hell after witnessing Rin's death. What did Indra go through to forsake everything and everyone for the sake of power?

Not sure. That's why I hoped Kishi would've shown their past since many people are actually interested about those times.

He couldve been similar to Madara. Still caring for his brother despite his belief of peace through power. Trying to do everything on his own for the sake of others without asking for help as opposed to Ashura who relies on others. He was born with all that power so that itself couldve led to that belief since he had never relied on others.
 
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