[Theory] Madara killed Mü, not the 2nd Mizukage.

[Michael92]

*Read Chapter 575 before reading this*​

While reading the latest chapter (Naruto manga chapter 575), something came to my mind that it seems nobody else has thought of yet.

If we take a look at the last panels of this page from chapter 562;

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We can see Onoki remembering back when he and Mü met Madara and that something was wrong.

Then on page 8 of the latest chapter (575), we see Onoki beaten down at the end of a staircase, with Madara standing on top of it and with a house destroyed behind him;

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When we take a look at the next page, we get an even better look at it;

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To me, this obviously seems to be the same ground and same time as the "meeting" that took place in chapter 562. In chapter 562, Madara even told Onoki: "I taught you once before how far beneath me you are." - Strengthening the evidence of that meeting ending in a fight.
But where is Mü? He was clearly present together with Onoki when meeting Madara, as seen in 562. Merging the scenes together, it obviously seems like the "meeting" ended in a fight, which Madara seemed to won, until Onoki got back on his feet. I sincerely doubt Mü left Onoki to fight Madara alone, and I also doubt he ran away.

However, how can Madara have killed Mü, when the 2nd Mizukage killed him?;

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This is just me speculating, but I think Mü lied to the 2nd Mizukage when he said "yes, you did [kill me]..." He didn't seem too serious about it.

So my question is, did Madara kill Mü in this fight or did Mü in fact die in his fight with the 2nd Mizukage?

 

[Akatsuki wise guy]

well young onoki could easily get beatdown by madara but mu not so much probably he left for a unknown reason or it was a different day and im pretty sure mizukage and mu dies in their fight together.

 

[Qcks]

Ehh.... this is one of those situations where i think i'd have to see that stated specifically in the manga to believe it, or at least see a disconnected limb or something to that effect.

Madara doesn't really need to have some complex meeting/fight with Mu to provoke violence from Ooniki.

Plus, Mu is not Ooniki's shadow. Naruto has had conflict without Kakashi or Sakura present. Why does Ooniki have to have Mu present to get in a fight with Madara?

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

I created a thread similar to this before without Madara's involvement. I strongly believe the two Kages did kill each other off at the same time.

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[EggesGabo]

he died together with the 2nd Mizukage.

 

[JojocIaw]

It has been alluded to that Muu and the 2nd Mizukage died together. If they didn't then I am disillusioned. D:

 

[Michael92]

well young onoki could easily get beatdown by madara but mu not so much probably he left for a unknown reason or it was a different day and im pretty sure mizukage and mu dies in their fight together.

That's the only explainable reason I can come up with if Mü died together with the 2nd Mizukage, but it was never specifically stated in the manga that Onoki met up with Madara on more than one occasion?

Ehh.... this is one of those situations where i think i'd have to see that stated specifically in the manga to believe it, or at least see a disconnected limb or something to that effect.

Madara doesn't really need to have some complex meeting/fight with Mu to provoke violence from Ooniki.

Plus, Mu is not Ooniki's shadow. Naruto has had conflict without Kakashi or Sakura present. Why does Ooniki have to have Mu present to get in a fight with Madara?

Look at the first link I provided, Mü is clearly standing by Onoki when "confronting" Madara. And it also seems very likely that it ended in a fight as seen in the pages of the latest chapter, that I also provided. However, in those pages, Mü is not present, so one could only speculate if this is really the same place as the one seen in 562 (which it seems like), and if so, why would Mü abandoned Onoki, leaving him to fight Madara alone?

It has been alluded to that Muu and the 2nd Mizukage died together. If they didn't then I am disillusioned. D:

Yes, that's what Mü said, but judging from the latest chapter, and the links to the other chapters I provided, it might seem like it wasn't like that at all.


Did anyone even read this thread, or are you just jumping to the conclusion of 2nd Mizukage and Mü killing each other off? Seems like it :shrug:

 

[Mizukata]

nah i still think bough the second mizukage and tuchikage killed themselfs at the same time...
what i think is the second tuchikage fled and almost left onoki to die

 

[udosohhope]

i wuld still go with the mizukage killng muu also nt forgetin he might ave chose u appear invisible as its an ability of his

 

[Michael92]

nah i still think bough the second mizukage and tuchikage killed themselfs at the same time...
what i think is the second tuchikage fled and almost left onoki to die

That wouldn't be very Kage like would it? They are suppose to protect the village and those who lives in it. He wouldn't be a good kage if he ran away, leaving Onoki to fight Madara as soon as the fighting began? + Onoki would most likely be pissed at him later on.

i wuld still go with the mizukage killng muu also nt forgetin he might ave chose u appear invisible as its an ability of his

Madara was just standing there above Onoki, seemingly having won the battle. I doubt he would be "cool" like that if Mü was invisible, trying to kill him. Onoki is even badly beaten.
The only three options left is that Mü is also badly beaten off screen, dead off screen, or he fled...

 

[Heavenlyblade]

I see the point you're making it would be a crap move of mu to leave onoki to fight madara by himself, and i don't think he would, but untill it's stated in the manga imma have to say he died with the 2nd miizukage good job on the theory though.

 

[Michael92]

I see the point you're making it would be a crap move of mu to leave onoki to fight madara by himself, and i don't think he would, but untill it's stated in the manga imma have to say he died with the 2nd miizukage good job on the theory though.

Yeah I know, and thanks. You seem to be one of the few that actually read and understood my point(s)
That's why this specially got on my mind as the scene of Onoki's past in the latest chapter, was just like the time when he and Mü met up with Madara. So it's very likely it's the same place, same time, only after the meeting having ended in a battle. And it wasn't stated in the manga that Onoki met Madara once and battled with him another time. Just that he fought with him this one time.

Not that this has any meaning of importance, but it's fun to think about anyways. Like it was said that the 1st Hokage killed Madara, only to be discovered way later that he survived the fight. Same thing could have happened to Mü, and the panels in the latest chapter, combined with the ones in chapter 562 might support this.

 

[Floydical]

+ rep for this thread, no doubt.

I kind of picked up on the scene you were talking about, noticing that it was similar to the scene in 562, but I did not recall that Muu was originally with Oonoki that day. I still think that Mizu killed Muu because there is no body of Muu shown. If he did kill him, it would have been shown. But I think I have an explanation on this matter...

We know that Muu/ Oonoki met Madara in regard to some business, what exactly they met for is beyond me. But we know that Oonoki had been in contact with Hashi and thought what Hashi said would correlate to his encounter with Madara, but clearly it didn't. I think after their meeting, Muu and Oonoki started to depart. Now I'd like to assume they left together, but perhaps Muu told Oonoki he had other business and told Oonoki to meet him back at their village later.

If that were the case, Oonoki/ Madara could have done something that set the other one off, causing a battle to ensue shortly after Muu left the area. My best guess is that after Muu left, Oonoki muttered something like, "I still think that Hashirama had the better sense in regard to this issue". If this were true, that Madara would have surely erupted and attacked Oonoki.

I think that this is the best explanation, that Oonoki unintentionally brought forth the wrath of Madara after Muu left the area and was too far away to have heard or been alerted to the fighting once it began.

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

I thought it was strange to but muu is an ******* that doesnt seem to care about feelings much and he wasnt much of an honorable man doubt he cared much about ookuni he problly bowed with out a second thought and left before madara beat down ookuni

 

[Michael92]

+ rep for this thread, no doubt.

I kind of picked up on the scene you were talking about, noticing that it was similar to the scene in 562, but I did not recall that Muu was originally with Oonoki that day. I still think that Mizu killed Muu because there is no body of Muu shown. If he did kill him, it would have been shown. But I think I have an explanation on this matter...

We know that Muu/ Oonoki met Madara in regard to some business, what exactly they met for is beyond me. But we know that Oonoki had been in contact with Hashi and thought what Hashi said would correlate to his encounter with Madara, but clearly it didn't. I think after their meeting, Muu and Oonoki started to depart. Now I'd like to assume they left together, but perhaps Muu told Oonoki he had other business and told Oonoki to meet him back at their village later.

If that were the case, Oonoki/ Madara could have done something that set the other one off, causing a battle to ensue shortly after Muu left the area. My best guess is that after Muu left, Oonoki muttered something like, "I still think that Hashirama had the better sense in regard to this issue". If this were true, that Madara would have surely erupted and attacked Oonoki.

I think that this is the best explanation, that Oonoki unintentionally brought forth the wrath of Madara after Muu left the area and was too far away to have heard or been alerted to the fighting once it began.

Yeah, it might also have been a manga mistake by kishi, first having Mü there in 562, but removing him from the scene in 575 because it crashed with him dieing in his fight with the 2nd Mizukage :shrug:
Well he could also have been dead, but "off screen", or even badly beaten, like Onoki, only off screen.

I like this theory of yours, but the fact that Madara said in 562, that he already showed Onoki that he was far beneath him. And the approach Madara had to the meeting, seeming like he was about to do battle, it would probably be more reasonable to say it ended in battle right away, instead of after Mü left.

On the other hand, it was long thought that Madara died at the hands of Hashirama, only to be proven otherwise way later, so Mü could have survived his battle with 2nd Mizukage, only to die in that fight with Madara. It wouldn't be the first time in the manga that someone lies + Mü seemed to rush the matter when 2nd Mizukage exclaimed that he killed him too in their battle.

What it comes down to really is what took place first. The meeting/fight between Onoki (, Mü) and Madara, or Mü vs 2nd Mizukage?
If the meeting took place before Mü's fight with the 2nd Mizukage, it would be safe to say that he died together with him, but if the meeting with Madara took place after Mü's fight with the 2nd Mizukage, it's obvious that he survived the fight. One could speculate why Kishi haven't really shown the "time stamp" of these two events, as it is really crucial to decided what really happened.

All in all, I'll stay by Madara killing Mü or that Mü's badly injured, like Onoki, only "off screen."

I thought it was strange to but muu is an ******* that doesnt seem to care about feelings much and he wasnt much of an honorable man doubt he cared much about ookuni he problly bowed with out a second thought and left before madara beat down ookuni

How can you say that? Don't let the edo state foul you. Mü was Onoki's sensei after all + he was the kage of the village! A kage wouldn't act cowardly like that, nor would he abandoned his student :shrug:

 

[Qcks]

Look at the first link I provided, Mü is clearly standing by Onoki when "confronting" Madara. And it also seems very likely that it ended in a fight as seen in the pages of the latest chapter, that I also provided. However, in those pages, Mü is not present, so one could only speculate if this is really the same place as the one seen in 562 (which it seems like), and if so, why would Mü abandoned Onoki, leaving him to fight Madara alone?

I stand corrected. I've seen that panel before and i didn't catch that was who that was.


It's still possible though that's not where mu died (he can split himself into two people), but the theory is at least possible now. + rep.

 

[Michael92]

I stand corrected. I've seen that panel before and i didn't catch that was who that was.


It's still possible though that's not where mu died (he can split himself into two people), but the theory is at least possible now. + rep.

Yeah, if Mü wasn't shown in that panel at 562, together with Onoki, this theory would pretty much be pointless xd

All in all, I think that this is a matter we won't get too much more information on, if anything, as it's not really that important to the storyline, so it can be "placed" on the list among the other things we might never get a clear explanation on...

 

[Sabuto Hayashi]

Good theory, but I'm not sure whether Madara have much involvement in Mu's death.
It's a possiblity, though. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Easyfathom]

Interesting...

The only other thing I can think of is if Madara wanted to keep them both alive, just "teach them a lesson" if you will. So they are both beat up on the ground maybe, but only Oonoki got shown because, well it is his flash back xD
Not entirely sure though

 

[Michael92]

Good theory, but I'm not sure whether Madara have much involvement in Mu's death.
It's a possiblity, though. We'll have to wait and see.

Indeed.

Interesting...

The only other thing I can think of is if Madara wanted to keep them both alive, just "teach them a lesson" if you will. So they are both beat up on the ground maybe, but only Oonoki got shown because, well it is his flash back xD
Not entirely sure though

Could be.