Madara/Hashirama VoTE Explosion Discussion #2

[DemonicAvenger]

This is a point that came up between me and KG that I've been seeing pretty frequently. So I decided to make a thread on it similar to the one we had last time.


This time we're discussing damage though. Specifically what made up the explosion between Madara and Hashirama and how it compares to Naruto and Sasukes clash at VOTE2

For reference: Here's a link to the other thread.

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Go to post 50 for a tldr on the conclusion of the thread.

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At best Kuramas 12 BD Barrage is on par with Narutos RSM BD imo. None of BM Narutos feats let him match that, and I don't think BSM powered him up enough too

Lmao I really hope you rguys aren't serious. There is no way you can look at the same panels I'm looking at and come to the conclusion that what Naruto did w/ his Bijuu Dama against Sasuke is superior or even on the same scale as Kurama's Bijuu Dama barrage. Absolutely no way.

If you believe the VoTE explosion was visually all Kurama because SS's attacks aren't energy based while the explosion from Naruto and Sasuke was both of them

This.

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Is a different scale than this.

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Let alone half of the RSM BD/Chidori explosion as the explosion only became that large because Sasuke and Naruto's powers clashed together.

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is a circle, and then half of that same circle. That is nowhere near the VoTE explosion. That's in the same general league as the combination of BM Naruto and the 5 Bijuu's strongest BD combined.

I'll try and post up later

 

[Dizzldot]

Honestly the RSM Bijuudama PS chidori clash seemed smaller than the BM naruto VS 5 Bijuudama explosion, EMS madara with kurama seemed to have way more power than Rinnegan sasuke before bijuu juice BECAUSE HEAR ME OUT BOYS DONT BE FAPS, sasuke's susanoo only had chidori and arrows, Majestic armor kurama had swords inside 100% kurama TBB

 

[Lord Tywin]

f you believe the VoTE explosion was visually all Kurama because SS's attacks aren't energy based while the explosion from Naruto and Sasuke was both of them

This is obviously not true when it was shown on panel the damage output of SS punching Susanoo

 

[Unorthodox]

What y'all fools arguing about? Vote 2 explosion >>>>> Vote 1 even in size size let's not talk about pure power potency so size is irrelevant to began with.

 

[adeshina365]

NB will never get anywhere if basic manga facts are constantly being debated.

 

[KidGamer65]

This is obviously not true when it was shown on panel the damage output of SS punching Susanoo

Some have argued that because SS's fists are not an energy attack that it doesn't contribute to the size of the explosion that's why I put the "if" there. Either way is fine by me.

NB will never get anywhere if basic manga facts are constantly being debated.

:lol

 

[Dizzldot]

NB will never get anywhere if basic manga facts are constantly being debated.

Bro....do you realize this base is the opposite of going places the manga its built around is over and less people and threads are made every day

 

[Lord Tywin]

Some have argued that because SS's fists are not an energy attack that it doesn't contribute to the size of the explosion that's why I put the "if" there. Either way is fine by me.



:lol

I see the vote1 explosion shown as dust and debris. Neither Susanoo blades nor SS arms cause explosions, and BD never made an explosion that looks like what happened in vote 1. I see it as nothing more than a smoke cloud rather than the actual size of the explosion

 

[Edogawa]

This has already been answered. I'm not sure why it's prolonging unless it's hard to grasp the idea.

The explosion was mostly produced by Shinsuusenju's punches and partially from the TBB. The explosion is not energize-based. How do we know this? Because every detonation from TBB created a sphere of energy, but the explosion witnessed in the scan is dust, obviously resulted from the SS. The detonation of TBB would look like this:

Spoiler

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The TBB detonated the red circle, which represents a singular mountain, meaning you could fit 11 circles (number of TBB shot) to represent the overall power within the explosion.

The conclusion answer is obviously false, as in that half of the explosion was produced by Kurama, because the scaled scan disagrees with such fallacious claim. The blue line represents the height reach of the explosion and green line represents the length; laughably towering the cloud and width of the explosion crosses +20 surrounding mountains. A standard TBB takes a shape of sphere and only has the power to wipe singular mountain; Kurama shooting 11 wiped out 11 mountains within the explosion. We see the red circle as representation of a singular mountain and we see how the length and height of the explosion dwarfs the red circle, regardless of 11 being drawn.

I will give my thought on VOTE 2 explosion later on, but it's far weaker and smaller than VOTE 1 explosion.

 

[KidGamer65]

I see the vote1 explosion shown as dust and debris. Neither Susanoo blades nor SS arms cause explosions, and BD never made an explosion that looks like what happened in vote 1. I see it as nothing more than a smoke cloud rather than the actual size of the explosion

But dust is smoke, and debris are fragments of junk (what you see on the right side of that panel). Neither are present in that explosion, and yes, Bijuu Dama made this same kind of explosion when Naruto used it against Obito along with Sasuke's Arrow.

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So either that explosion is a visual-only representation of Kurama's BD barrage while the damage SS did is reflected by the fact it's fists are what carved out the entirety of the Valley of the End.

Or the explosion size is because of both techniques powers.

 

[ARGUS]

PS-Chidori vs RSM TBB = the explosion which was the collective might of both

Chidori vs Rasengan = the explosion which was the collective might of both

world NE RS vs Indras Arrow = the explosion which was the collective might of both

same applies here.
the explosion was the collective power of chojo and TBB

 

[KidGamer65]

PS-Chidori vs RSM TBB = the explosion which was the collective might of both

Chidori vs Rasengan = the explosion which was the collective might of both

world NE RS vs Indras Arrow = the explosion which was the collective might of both

same applies here.
the explosion was the collective power of chojo and TBB

It's not as clear cut as that. In all those clashes you listed the jutsu obviously clashed together. When Madara and Hashirama fought Bijuu Dama went through some of the arms and exploded behind the statue, and SS's fists hit PS. They didn't clash together in the same fashion that Chidori-BD, and the rest clashed in. Not to mention SS's fists aren't energy attacks while Chidori isn't.

Then we have the fact that if SS's energy was in the form of that explosion, why did the impact would've created the crater that became the entire valley?

 

[Lord Tywin]

But dust is smoke, and debris are fragments of junk (what you see on the right side of that panel). Neither are present in that explosion, and yes, Bijuu Dama made this same kind of explosion when Naruto used it against Obito along with Sasuke's Arrow.

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So either that explosion is a visual-only representation of Kurama's BD barrage while the damage SS did is reflected by the fact it's fists are what carved out the entirety of the Valley of the End.

Or the explosion size is because of both techniques powers.

You're right about the appearance of the BD explosion. But I still don't see it as an actually size of an explosion. Full Kurama's BD was never shown to produced an explosion that huge, so vote1 explosion isn't only Kurama's product. SS just punches, so there is no explosion. But its arms are huge, which I see it making that huge smoke cloud.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're right about the appearance of the BD explosion. But I still don't see it as an actually size of an explosion. Full Kurama's BD was never shown to produced an explosion that huge, so vote1 explosion isn't only Kurama's product. SS just punches, so there is no explosion. But its arms are huge, which I see it making that huge smoke cloud.

Full Kurama's BD barrage has never been shown besides that so the bold isn't a valid argument, so if you think SS's punches don't make an explosion then you have to agree that the entire thing is explosions from Kurama's attack. There is no smoke in that panel. Smoke is gaseous. That isn't.

 

[Icelerate]

Why wouldn't SS's punches create a shockwave? IMO both attacks contributed to the shockwave but each construct only took damage from the other's attack.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Full Kurama's BD barrage has never been shown besides that so the bold isn't a valid argument, so if you think SS's punches don't make an explosion then you have to agree that the entire thing is explosions from Kurama's attack. There is no smoke in that panel. Smoke is gaseous. That isn't.

Full kurama Bijuudama barrage doesn't have to be shown since we already seen Full Kurama Bijuudama being mountain size just like all the other Bijuu. So full Kurama Bijuudama barrage would be just as big as BM Kurama's. Also i agree that the explosion was all caused by Madara. Nothing suggest Hashirama contributed to that explosion.

Why wouldn't SS's punches create a shockwave? IMO both attacks contributed to the shockwave but each construct only took damage from the other's attack.

Punches have never caused or made shockwaves ever. SS punches contributed nothing to the explosion it was all Madara.

 

[Icelerate]

Punches have never caused or made shockwaves ever. SS punches contributed nothing to the explosion it was all Madara.

If the impact is strong enough it would create a shockwave similar to

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except much larger.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Full Kurama's BD barrage has never been shown besides that so the bold isn't a valid argument, so if you think SS's punches don't make an explosion then you have to agree that the entire thing is explosions from Kurama's attack. There is no smoke in that panel. Smoke is gaseous. That isn't.

Quick note. Sakuras punch against the Juubi clones created an explosion effect and so do other strong physical strikes. So SS shouldn't be any different

 

[Lord Tywin]

I see ya points

 

[KidGamer65]

Quick note. Sakuras punch against the Juubi clones created an explosion effect and so do other strong physical strikes. So SS shouldn't be any different

If the impact is strong enough it would create a shockwave similar to

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except much larger.

Agreed.

Full kurama Bijuudama barrage doesn't have to be shown since we already seen Full Kurama Bijuudama being mountain size just like all the other Bijuu. So full Kurama Bijuudama barrage would be just as big as BM Kurama's. Also i agree that the explosion was all caused by Madara. Nothing suggest Hashirama contributed to that explosion.


Punches have never caused or made shockwaves ever. SS punches contributed nothing to the explosion it was all Madara.

Full Kurama obviously fired more Bijuu Dama than BM Naruto did and they were obviously larger so this point doesn't make sense.