[Spoilers] Madara does not know about the full power of Sasuke's eye [w/PROOF]

[Mr Hiru]

No, I'm saying that Madara did not contradict Hagoromo. In fact, he is giving us more detail / expanding upon what was already told to us.

You're the one that is creating this contradiction.



Apparently, he did not hint it to be a Sharingan - your brain lead you to a false conclusion. You were speculating.



No, what you're saying is speculation.

Hagoromo said it has Sharingan's power, and nothing more. You decided that it must mean, the eye is a Sharingan. Now when someone actually gives it a name, you're calling foul.





I don't have to.

Manga says it literally is a Rinnegan.
Manga says it literally possess Sharinga's power.



Clearly doesn't.



My God.

Madara very clearly states, that HIS ocular power made him the ONLY ONE capable of seeing through Hashirama's Wood Clones.

His Rinnegan is seeing through Naruto's Shadow Clone.

Did Neji's Byakugan see through Naruto's Shadow Clones?

No.

You have no argument.

You don't have proof supporting your points. You don't have argument.

Again, bring the page where it is stated that Kaguya has a Rinnegan.

PS: And stop using fallacies. That kind of argumentation is foul.

You say that Madara's Sharingan can see through clones (truth)

You say that Madara's Rinnegan can see through clones (truth)

You conclude that Rinnegan holds Sharingan's powers (you made up this).

...I'll present you another case that breaks this fallacy (known as False Analogy):

Byakugan can see chakra anomalies (truth)

Sharingan can see chakra anomalies (truth)

Conclusion: Sharingan has the Byakugan Powers (false)

 

[Klue]

You don't have proof supporting your points. You don't have argument.

Again, bring the page where it is stated that Kaguya has a Rinnegan.

PS: And stop using fallacies. That kind of argumentation is foul.

I have a panel of Madara calling it a Rinnegan. I have a panel of Rikudou stating that it possess Sharingan's power. Is it necessary for me to show you these two panels?

What you don't have is a panel of anyone calling it a Sharingan.

Back up your points.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I have a panel of Madara calling it a Rinnegan. I have a panel of Rikudou stating that it possess Sharingan's power. Is it necessary for me to show you these two panels?

What you don't have is a panel of anyone calling it a Sharingan.

Back up your points.

Two scenes where two different characters spoke about one eye. The former one is the one with most knowledge, Madara only knows a bit thanks to the Sage's tablet. My analysis has context in mind, not just a pair of manga pages.

Do you have any proof of Madara knowing about that specific variation of the eye? Madara called it a Rinnegan, and I say he doesn't know about the powers of this eye. Hagoromo said it holds the Sharingan powers, ergo, it is a Sharingan. Do you have any proof of Madara knowing that this eye has the Sharingan's power? (look at the title of this thread, this is my questioning line).

And I already disproved your comparison of EMS/Rinnegan seeing through clones, because these are just common characteristics among all doujutsus (Madara as an exceptional character has enough proficency to see through Hashirama's clones, but Sasuke was not able to see Naruto's clone in part 1... do you catch it? There are many ways to see the case of a doujutsu seeing through clones. If Madara had Byakugan instead of Sharingan, he would be able to differentiate clones as well).

And finally: Nor you or I can continue this hot discussion as if we were talking about facts: We are speaking based on unofficial translators in here. We need more accurate information.

 

[Klue]

Two scenes where two different characters spoke about one eye. The former one is the one with most knowledge, Madara only knows a bit thanks to the Sage's tablet. My analysis has context in mind, not just a pair of manga pages.

But Hagoromo doesn't call it a Sharingan, you have decided that is what the context meant in this situation. Instead of discarding one over the other, why not have the to cooperate?

There is no need to try to decide what it means. Accept both for what they say at face value.

Do you have any proof of Madara knowing about that specific variation of the eye? Madara called it a Rinnegan, and I say he doesn't know about the powers of this eye. Hagoromo said it holds the Sharingan powers, ergo, it is a Sharingan. Do you have any proof of Madara knowing that this eye has the Sharingan's power? (look at the title of this thread, this is my questioning line).

Are you asking me, if he is aware of what the Shinju's eye looks like when he depecited it in his genjutsu, when explaining the MEP to Obito?

Spoiler

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Yeah, he knows what it looks like, and obviously knows what power he it has - if that eye is going to be used to launch the jutsu on the moon, once the flower blooms.

And I already disproved your comparison of EMS/Rinnegan seeing through clones, because these are just common characteristics among all doujutsus.

You didn't disprove anything.

He said his eyes are the only one that can see through the clone technique. Neji's Byakugan did not pick original from clone.

WTF?

 

[Mr Hiru]

You didn't disprove anything.

He said his eyes are the only one that can see through the clone technique. Neji's Byakugan did not pick original from clone.

WTF?

You're comparing Madara's proficency and experience using his eyes with Neji's. You're out of context with this.

 

[Bansho Tenin]

Naruto and Sasuke are hacks op now


Naruto dodged rinbo hengoku.... which slapped up what like 7 tailed beasts at the same time?

 

[KLhunter]

It doesn't matter what Sasuke eyes now.. but for sure now Madara has obtain Kaguya Power.... last panel shown Madara also has similar eye (Juubi) at his forehead same as Kaguya itself..

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[Klue]

You're comparing Madara's proficency and experience using his eyes with Neji's. You're out of context with this.

"Hashirama's Wood Doppler Ganger. MY OCULAR POWERS made me the ONLY SHINOBI to ever see through that powerful ruse."

What is hard for you to understand, seriously?

His eye is the only eye that has shown this ability to pick out the original among a bunch of clones.

The. Only. One.

He demonstrated this same ability with the Rinnegan.

Stop.

 

[Mr Hiru]

"Hashirama's Wood Doppler Ganger. MY OCULAR POWERS made me the ONLY SHINOBI to ever see through that powerful ruse."

What is hard for you to understand, seriously?

His eye is the only eye that has shown this ability to pick out the original among a bunch of clones.

The. Only. One.

He demonstrated this same ability with the Rinnegan.

Stop.

Yeah of course, his Rinnegan was implanted in Nagato and he couldn't see Naruto's clone in Pain's battle. So, the one to stop now is you. Don't get cocky, and take a breath... because now I'm going to prove my point. You asked for it.

I had some fun in this speech of baseless speculation from both parts (since I have not seen any raw/Viz translation of the relevant pages until now to conclude that Madara spoke about Rinnegan as an eye), at least I can tell something very interesting about the RAW of chapter 671.

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In this version, Hagoromo spoke about both Byakugan and Sharingan powers. So, taking this in mind... would you still dare to say that Hagoromo isn't referring as Kaguya having the Sharingan? Because if we follow your line and the original source, Kaguya also would not have the Byakugan, but just Byakugan powers.

 

[KLhunter]

Why still arguing here... That was Juubi eye, every person posses it only got one eye due to Juubi got only one eye....

Sasuke = Juubi eye at his left eye.. right eye still 3 tomoe's sharingan..

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Madara = Juubi eye at his forehead (shown in last panel same as Kaguya/Hagoromo) + Rinnegan

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Kaguya = Juubi eye at his forehead + Byakugan (left & right)

Hagoromo = Juubi eye at his forehead + Rinnegan (left & right)

 

[Mr Hiru]

Why still arguing here... That was Juubi eye, every person posses it only got one eye due to Juubi got only one eye....

Sasuke = Juubi eye at his left eye.. right eye still 3 tomoe's sharingan..

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Madara = Juubi eye at his forehead (shown in last panel same as Kaguya)

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Kaguya & Hagoromo = Juubi eye at his Forehead

Smoothly talking, yes, everyone agrees this is the eye of the Juubi.

The issue is that Mr. Klue insists that this eye is a Rinnegan (which I consider valid given the proof) because Madara stated it. But this thread speaks about Madara being fundamentally wrong about his sentence, because Hagoromo hinted that this eye was a Sharingan (he stated that Kaguya held the Byakugan and also the Sharingan powers, which semantically refers to her having the Byakugan powers and the Sharingan powers).

The last raw page I provided here is the main hint that points towards the meaning of Hagoromo's words: She has Byakugan and Sharingan.

Now, why I don't speak about Juubi's eye but about Sharingan/Rinnegan? Because this is crucial to determine Madara's knowledge about Sasuke powers.

 

[Minato San]

I agree on some part, but I dissagreed the statements where you said that rinnegans true source is the sharingan, I think that sasuke's/kaguya's eyes isn't sharingan nor rinnegan, the eye has both property of a rinnegan and sharingans power, so its much stronger than those 2 sepparately, and I'm not sure if rinnegan or sharingan is the right name for the eye

 

[Mr Hiru]

I agree on some part, but I dissagreed the statements where you said that rinnegans true source is the sharingan, I think that sasuke's/kaguya's eyes isn't sharingan nor rinnegan, the eye has both property of a rinnegan and sharingans power, so its much stronger than those 2 sepparately, and I'm not sure if rinnegan or sharingan is the right name for the eye

At least you have a valid possibility in there: Indeed, that may be the case.

If the Juubi's Eye is a combination of both Rinnegan and Sharingan, then chapter 671/673 would be consistent.

But I don't buy that eye being the Rinnegan as Madara stated, I'm pretty sure that's a mistake from his part (and one of the probables reasons for his end in this manga). Referring to that Eye as a Rinnegan only could be a distraction for him, a misinterpretation of abilities... what if Sasuke uses Sharingan powers that effortlessly overpowers the EMS level, and Madara keeps thinking that Sasuke's eye is a Rinnegan?

Madara doesn't have any idea of the extents of the Juubi's Eyes, more than the Infinite Tsukiyomi per se.

 

[Minato San]

Me neither I don't think its a rinnegan, I agree on that, the eye is indeed the juubis eye, its the origins of rinnegan and sharingan, I also agree that it would be a distractions to madara as we all know that both rinnegan and sharingan posses an entirely different power, my conclution is madara needs more research he's not knowledgeable enough

 

[Sauske Freakin Uchiha]

Obito only used one rinnegan in order to keep his sharingan powers...what if ripples make rinnegan powers, tome make sharangan powers, and 9 tome is both sets of powers in one?

 

[Minato San]

That's what I was implying the juubis eye consists of rinnegan and sharingan, the ripple patterns represents the rinnegan and its power, and the tomoe represents sharingan and its power so whoever obtained the eye like kaguyas third eye or sasukes left eye, posses both rinnegan and sharingans power

 

[davidou]

I did a lot of times, and I came to the conclusion that it was a Sharingan.

It would not make any sense to tell that Kaguya had the Sharingan's POWER when (under your perspective) she had a Rinnegan and a Byakugan, and not a Sharingan.

Henceforth, she had a Sharingan.

Hagoromo:"Kaguya's 3rd eye have sharingan powers" , you can't say that it's a sharingan with that.
Madara did call it "rinnengan" , I'm going to believe him , that perfect eye is a rinnengan.

Madara rinnengans are what?
They are evolved sharingans.
Madara's rinnengans are particular sharingans.

The same way , Sasuke's left eye is an evolved sharingan , maybe more than Madara's cause it has 9 tomoes.

Rinnengans are particular sharingans.Like the square is a particular rectangle.
Any square is a rectangle but any rectangle isn't a square.
Any rinnengan is a sharingan , but any sharingan isn't a rinnengan.

 

[Mr SwizZz]

You have no argument.

But where does it say Kaguya's forehead eye possessed sharingan's powers?

I found this

Spoiler

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Kaguya had sharingan's powers. It doesnt say her eye had, but she herself had sharingan powers which could easily be interpreted as: Kaguya had sharingan. =D

Well anyway, i hope people understand it is NOT a sharingan with ripple pattern. That is stupid.

A normal 3-tomoe sharingan has a ring itself, how would a 9-tomoe sharingan look?
All 9 tomoes on one ring?

No, there are 3 tomoe on 1 ring hence there needs to be 3 rings.
It doesnt have a ripple pattern, please stop this.

It is a 9-tomoe sharingan. 3 tomoes on 1 ring, hence 3 rings in 1 eye with 9 tomoes.
No ripple pattern involved ffs

Maybe rinnegan has the rings of the sharingan and the colour of Byakugan...who knows =D

 

[Behemoth55]

Chapter 510 gives you some insight about what is the Yin Yang Release - Creation of All Things, and it explains the properties of Yin and Yang powers.

Actually, that's only the explanation of Banbutsu Sōzō and how In and Yō are used in this case. But In and Yō(Yin/Yang) have a wide array of different uses. Genjutsu are Inton(Yin-release) and Chojis Hiden(the transformation) has a connection to Yōton(Yang-release)
And there are a few Jutsu which base on Onmyōton(Yin-Yang-release)- Izanagi, Banbutsu Sōzō and Gudōdama.

 

[Klue]

Yeah, it's a Rinnegan using "Sharingan's" powers. XD