Madara and Sasuke fan conflict.

[Jokule67]

Only reason Madara blew up was because he had no control over his body. Kaguya took over. And he IS immortal. Nothing Sasuke has can damage him sorry to break it to you all. Sasuke cannot BEGIN to make this Madara feel pain.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Bold based on nothing, that's a conjecture at best. While the burden of proof is on you.

They have an "immortal/industructable body" until they are sealed/ Bijuu extracted. How is it so hard for you to grasp, it's pretty sad.

Technically you made a positive claim of Madara's immortality so the burden of proof is on you, but that just comes down to arguing semetics. Either way, Sasuke can extract the bijuu so it's a moot point.

He turned into a balloon because Kaguya absorbed all the chakra at once obviously while Madara can absorb to any extent he wanted. He absorbed Shinju so there's no reason he can't absorb his own Shin Jukai Koutan roots that have collected chakra.

Spoiler

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Sasuke says that Madara cannot handle all that chakra, which is why he was inflating. Nothing to do with Kaguya. Speaking of Kaguya, you brought up the Shinju. The Shinju is Kaguya. Kaguya doesn't exactly want the best for Madara, so it wont let him absorb as much chakra as he wants without inflating him.

Lol. The ability to control Bijuu chakra =/= Having Bijuu chakra, that much is obvious.

Gaara had Shukaku extracted along with all it's chakra. He could still help extract the juubi from Obito because he had the ability to control Shukaku's chakra. Sasuke can still control bijuu chakra, so he can extract bijuu.

@bold because his Limbo was on cool down inside him but this argument has no definite answer and is base on assumptions so let's stop this.

Agreed, this is a pointless argument.

 

[Cooh]

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/thread

 

[Ootoriyu Jin]

Technically you made a positive claim of Madara's immortality so the burden of proof is on you, but that just comes down to arguing semetics. Either way, Sasuke can extract the bijuu so it's a moot point.

No, you're the one who engaged in a debate with me saying Madara is not immortal, while I showed you character quotes and proof you still haven't shown me anything except baseless assumptions based on other characters feats like Obito and Gaara.
@Bold Lol, where? cause Sasuke is a Jin right?

Spoiler

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Sasuke says that Madara cannot handle all that chakra, which is why he was inflating. Nothing to do with Kaguya. Speaking of Kaguya, you brought up the Shinju. The Shinju is Kaguya. Kaguya doesn't exactly want the best for Madara, so it wont let him absorb as much chakra as he wants without inflating him.

@Bold You solo'd your own argument. Never said he can absorb "all the chakra at once" read my post again. lol

@Underlined Bro what are you on about?

The rest is fanfic and you know it.

Gaara had Shukaku extracted along with all it's chakra. He could still help extract the juubi from Obito because he had the ability to control Shukaku's chakra. Sasuke can still control bijuu chakra, so he can extract bijuu.

This logic is so disgusting, Show me a scan of Gaara pulling out the Bijuu's from Obito (not the Chakra to Tug-a-war) then you have a point. Took the combination of ISO Susanoo, Konoha 11 (Senpou Odama Rasengan), the whole of the SA to pull out the Bijuu chakra while Obito was talking to Naruto in a unstable condition. Sasuke ain't doing that himself let alone extract the Bijuu chakra himself lol. Obito barely extracted a tiny portion of Shukaku and Gyubi and that was possible because he still had some Juubi chakra left in him (Proven by his Sun Staff). JJ Madara >>> JJ Obito so nah.

Agreed, this is a pointless argument.

Yes agreed, this whole argument is pointless.

 

[DHOH]

OP, I first want to say nice thread. You're approach is welcome and I can see you went out of your way to make a none bashing thread. Thanks.

I like to satert of by saying Madara has to many unanswered questions about him.. Becoming a JJ could have given him some powers and also cause him to lose powers. We have no idea if Madara can deminsion jump, use Susano or even if he has master the Rinnengan.

So here's my two cents:

Sasuke is faster and has better Jutsu. Also he can use EMS and Rinnegan combos.

Madara has more useful Jutsu, more chakra and immortatilty.

Intelligence, tatics and knowledge is about the same..

Here's the problem Madara has RSM, or a form close to it.. Most people see this as a instant win for Madara, I don't. Sasuke may not have a special mode, but he's been shown to fight physically on par with RSM Naruto. Meaning he's more than capable of matching Madara in physical attributes.

With that being said Madara would be the hardest challenge for Sasuke, yes even harder than Naruto. But Ameno gives Sasuke the edge IF Madara wasn't Immortal.

 

[Ootoriyu Jin]

OP, I first want to say nice thread. You're approach is welcome and I can see you went out of your way to make a none bashing thread. Thanks.

I like to satert of by saying Madara has to many unanswered questions about him.. Becoming a JJ could have given him some powers and also cause him to lose powers. We have no idea if Madara can deminsion jump, use Susano or even if he has master the Rinnengan.

So here's my two cents:

Sasuke is faster and has better Jutsu. Also he can use EMS and Rinnegan combos.

Madara has more useful Jutsu, more chakra and immortatilty.

Intelligence, tatics and knowledge is about the same..

Here's the problem Madara has RSM, or a form close to it.. Most people see this as a instant win for Madara, I don't. Sasuke may not have a special mode, but he's been shown to fight physically on par with RSM Naruto. Meaning he's more than capable of matching Madara in physical attributes.

With that being said Madara would be the hardest challenge for Sasuke, yes even harder than Naruto. But Ameno gives Sasuke the edge IF Madara wasn't Immortal.

This ^ I agree with you. ^.^

Adult Sasuke loses because or Inifinite Chakra and Immortality (no seals).
But without it
Sasuke would have the edge and can defeat him.

 

[Jokule67]

OP, I first want to say nice thread. You're approach is welcome and I can see you went out of your way to make a none bashing thread. Thanks.

I like to satert of by saying Madara has to many unanswered questions about him.. Becoming a JJ could have given him some powers and also cause him to lose powers. We have no idea if Madara can deminsion jump, use Susano or even if he has master the Rinnengan.

So here's my two cents:

Sasuke is faster and has better Jutsu. Also he can use EMS and Rinnegan combos.

Madara has more useful Jutsu, more chakra and immortatilty.

Intelligence, tatics and knowledge is about the same..

Here's the problem Madara has RSM, or a form close to it.. Most people see this as a instant win for Madara, I don't. Sasuke may not have a special mode, but he's been shown to fight physically on par with RSM Naruto. Meaning he's more than capable of matching Madara in physical attributes.

With that being said Madara would be the hardest challenge for Sasuke, yes even harder than Naruto. But Ameno gives Sasuke the edge IF Madara wasn't Immortal.

Agreed. But alot of peeps dont believe this sir. Madara has tanked to many attacks already. Nothing seems to faze him physically even when he is completely cut in half. I hate it to be honest. I do not like any Juubi Jinchurikis. It is just straight not fair. Sasuke would dethrone him without the juubi and would actually be Madaras hardest opponent even with it, because they are so much alike. Its like fighting your Son after hes grown up and you're old lol.

But you are right Madara could be harboring even more techniques than he had time to show.

In my opinion what REALLY gives Sasuke the edge is how he is the Ultimate NINJA. He is truly from the shadows and emerges with a force so explosive Madara probably would barely no what to do. The heart of a ninja remains the same. Spoken like a TRUE MASTER.

 

[Jokule67]

Oh and Sasuke cannot extract and control bijuu they are SEALED for a reason.

 

[DHOH]

This ^ I agree with you. ^.^

Adult Sasuke loses because or Inifinite Chakra and Immortality (no seals).
But without it
Sasuke would have the edge and can defeat him.

I'm not a believer in the infinite chakra deal. IMO Sasuke has more chakra than everyone save JJs, Kaguya and her linage, and Naruto. With that being said, Sasuke has more than enough chakra to defeat anyone if he has the power,skill and jutsu to do it.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

This whole thing is settled in 4 words.

Sasuke can't seal him.

Didn't Madara show kamui feats and has plenty of chakra?

 

[DHOH]

Agreed. But alot of peeps dont believe this sir. Madara has tanked to many attacks already. Nothing seems to faze him physically even when he is completely cut in half. I hate it to be honest. I do not like any Juubi Jinchurikis. It is just straight not fair. Sasuke would dethrone him without the juubi and would actually be Madaras hardest opponent even with it, because they are so much alike. Its like fighting your Son after hes grown up and you're old lol.

But you are right Madara could be harboring even more techniques than he had time to show.

In my opinion what REALLY gives Sasuke the edge is how he is the Ultimate NINJA. He is truly from the shadows and emerges with a force so explosive Madara probably would barely no what to do. The heart of a ninja remains the same. Spoken like a TRUE MASTER.

Edo Madara was my second favorite character.. His powers skills speed and intelligence is what a elite uchiha should look like. The he was defeated by edit Hashirama, that made me think less of him.. Then eventually he became majin buu and hated him ever since lol.

 

[Ootoriyu Jin]

I'm not a believer in the infinite chakra deal. IMO Sasuke has more chakra than everyone save JJs, Kaguya and her linage, and Naruto. With that being said, Sasuke has more than enough chakra to defeat anyone if he has the power,skill and jutsu to do it.

My bad I meant near Infinite (Demon hawk got that term stuck in my head) or a lot. Madara should have an unmeasurable amount of chakra like the Juubi, not infinite but a hell of a lot. While Madara can absorb some chakra of Shin: Jukai Koutan's roots if he runs out of chakra.

 

[Jokule67]

Edo Madara was my second favorite character.. His powers skills speed and intelligence is what a elite uchiha should look like. The he was defeated by edit Hashirama, that made me think less of him.. Then eventually he became majin buu and hated him ever since lol.

Yea He actually was my number 1 fave(took minato's spot lol). I was suprised he still lost to Hashirama even with Rinnegan. But to be fair he was not ALIVE so he couldnt really use the outer path but he did set it up so when he came back he immobolized hashirama. But he still should have at least won. Idk lol.

But Same with me juubi jins are so generic. Adult Sasuke brought back the True Uchiha Might. He made me proud. He is the well rounded ninja I loved in part 1 again. The Ultimate Ninja to be frank

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke <= 2R JJ Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke < 3 eye Madara
(the above equations are in terms of power only, so is the equation below)

Adult Sasuke > 3 eye Madara (due to heavy maturing of chakra and thus power). Madara still wins due to larger chakra reserves and immortality.

But if 3 eye Madara survived till present, then it'd be a different story. He'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke in all regards. His chakra would've matured on an equal level as Sasuke, thus he'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke since he was already stronger than Sasuke. And he already has more chakra and immortality which puts him above Sasuke.

 

[Jokule67]

Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke <= 2R JJ Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke < 3 eye Madara
(the above equations are in terms of power only, so is the equation below)

Adult Sasuke > 3 eye Madara (due to heavy maturing of chakra and thus power). Madara still wins due to larger chakra reserves and immortality.

But if 3 eye Madara survived till present, then it'd be a different story. He'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke in all regards. His chakra would've matured on an equal level as Sasuke, thus he'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke since he was already stronger than Sasuke. And he already has more chakra and immortality which puts him above Sasuke.

Well okay cant really argue with that other than I dont think juubi chakra can really evolve since it is basically nature energy. I think only his skill and knowlegde of his own power would grow. Same with Adult Sasuke. His chakra isnt gettin any bigger its all up to his visual prowess and physical attributes, overall skill and knowledge

 

[DHOH]

My bad I meant near Infinite (Demon hawk got that term stuck in my head) or a lot. Madara should have an unmeasurable amount of chakra like the Juubi, not infinite but a hell of a lot. While Madara can absorb some chakra of Shin: Jukai Koutan's roots if he runs out of chakra.

You're missing my point. I'm not debating how much chakra Madara has, I'm saying it doesn't matter if he has unlimited chakra, as long as he's going against a opponent who has the skills and power to kill him makes all that chakra useless.

 

[DHOH]

Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > Rinnegan Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke <= 2R JJ Madara
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke < 3 eye Madara
(the above equations are in terms of power only, so is the equation below)

Adult Sasuke > 3 eye Madara (due to heavy maturing of chakra and thus power). Madara still wins due to larger chakra reserves and immortality.

But if 3 eye Madara survived till present, then it'd be a different story. He'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke in all regards. His chakra would've matured on an equal level as Sasuke, thus he'd be stronger than Adult Sasuke since he was already stronger than Sasuke. And he already has more chakra and immortality which puts him above Sasuke.

Masdara had to be mid 30s when he was brought back, I don't see how his chakra is growing anymore... The reason he was stronger than teen sasuke is because he was in his prime and Sasuke hadn't reached that yet.

 

[Ootoriyu Jin]

You're missing my point. I'm not debating how much chakra Madara has, I'm saying it doesn't matter if he has unlimited chakra, as long as he's going against a opponent who has the skills and power to kill him makes all that chakra useless.

Yeah I know, I agreed with your first post. I'm just correcting myself.

 

[Ootoriyu Jin]

Mascara had to be mid 30s when he was brought back, I don't see how his chakra is growing anymore... The reason he was stronger than teen sasuke is because he was in his prime and Sasuke hadn't reached that yet.

No the moment he became a JJ he received fresh Rikudou chakra/ Juubi chakra so while yes, his own chakra has already nearly fully matured it doesn't account for his new Rikudou chakra that he freshly aquired + chakra from Kaguya's third eye. His new chakra can still mature.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

My bad I meant near Infinite (Demon hawk got that term stuck in my head) or a lot. Madara should have an unmeasurable amount of chakra like the Juubi, not infinite but a hell of a lot. While Madara can absorb some chakra of Shin: Jukai Koutan's roots if he runs out of chakra.

Really, me? But yeah, I do use that term to quantify Madara's chakra levels, but I do know they aren't infinite considering Kaguya who had even more chakra was out of it at occasions. It's just expressive, rather than resolute.

Well okay cant really argue with that other than I dont think juubi chakra can really evolve since it is basically nature energy. I think only his skill and knowlegde of his own power would grow. Same with Adult Sasuke. His chakra isnt gettin any bigger its all up to his visual prowess and physical attributes, overall skill and knowledge

Well, that's arguable. Madara's chakra is a different deal since it can be considered to be of fixed power (I'll talk about this, it's debatable). But Sasuke's chakra is not of fixed power. It constantly progresses and increases in quantity and quality until it reaches its full potential power.

Now coming back to Madara's chakra. Regular jin's bijuus have chakra at constant power, further progression is made by the user's own chakra (if possible). But Madara is a Juubi Jin (different from regular jins), so that chakra and power he gains simply isn't stored inside of him and available on demand like other jinchuurikis but rather its permanent and the chakra is essentially made into the Jin's own chakra acting like the user's own chakra and presumably attaining the same principles and characteristics like every other personally belonged chakra should have. So logically, it should also have the progression aspect of any other chakra. Though again, that's debatable. But logically, it should be true.

Masdara had to be mid 30s when he was brought back, I don't see how his chakra is growing anymore... The reason he was stronger than teen sasuke is because he was in his prime and Sasuke hadn't reached that yet.

Chakra development has nothing to do with age. It progresses due to its development potential i.e its maximum capacity of blossoming to its strongest level. Even if you receive a new chakra at 40, you still have the capacity to develop it just like a 20 year old.