[Discussion] Luffy takes a MF gauntlet

[Ridoku X]

Oh boy, it's the Doflamingo vs Jozu sh!t again...

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OT: IMO Luffy in scenario 1 goes as far as Ace and in scenario 2 as far as Vista. Luffy isn't good against swordsmen, especially someone close to his level (if not above).

 

[Black Mamba]

No he wasn't.
He didn't change his stance because he didn't even know the attack was coming, he couldn't see Doffy move.

You can fully see him looking at Doffy before the attack which means he noticed him, why are you denying this? He didn't budge cuz he didn't need to.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can fully see him looking at Doffy before the attack which means he noticed him, why are you denying this? He didn't budge cuz he didn't need to.

He looks at him before Doffy attacks. But not while Doffy is moving. He noticed him once he stopped moving. Not while he was. And was then surprised when the blow landed, not because of the blow itself, so the only thing that could have been the cause of the surprise was speed.

 

[Bogard]

He stops at Ace in S1
He may stop at Vista in S2, but if he doesn't, he'd stop at Doflamingo, barely though

And yes Jozu is stronger than Doflamingo. I rate Doflamingo to be around Vista level, but he is better suited to fight G4 Luffy than Vista based on what we've seen thus far from him

 

[Punk Hazard]

He stops at Ace in S1
He may stop at Vista in S2, but if he doesn't, he'd stop at Doflamingo, barely though

And yes Jozu is stronger than Doflamingo. I rate Doflamingo to be around Vista level, but he is better suited to fight G4 Luffy than Vista based on what we've seen thus far from him

Feats and portrayal say otherwise.
Oh btw, before you cite the whole "It was a no-named attack and Kuzan's hands were in his pockets."

1. Whitebeard didn't use a single named attack in his entire appearance in the series
2. Akainu stopped Whitebeard's attacks with his hands in pockets, unless you think Akainu can stop WB just casually.

 

[Bogard]

Feats and portrayal say otherwise.
Oh btw, before you cite the whole "It was a no-named attack and Kuzan's hands were in his pockets."

1. Whitebeard didn't use a single named attack in his entire appearance in the series
2. Akainu stopped Whitebeard's attacks with his hands in pockets, unless you think Akainu can stop WB just casually.

It's not a matter of named attack. It's a matter of battle situation. Kuzan was going all out in a war against Jozu, not the same case with Doflamingo

I rate Jozu higher because he actually has better feats and portrayal. He could stalemate an admiral until distraction, which includes reaction speed, stamina and other things like that especially when talking about a fast admiral like Kuzan(just look at his leap at the beginning of the war), a feat Doflamingo will dream his entire life to accomplish. He has one of the best strength feat in this manga, only rivalled by Garp maybe that shits on any physical strength feat Doflamingo ever showed. He has the best defense in the world, capable to block island level slashes, another feat Doflamingo would dream himself to accomplish

Better portrayal as well because in the chapter "conflict at the summit", he was the most highlighted alongside admirals, Mihawk, Marco, WB when Doflamingo was ignored on the background

The blindside Onigumo-Marco style isn't changing that

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's not a matter of named attack. It's a matter of battle situation. Kuzan was going all out in a war against Jozu, not the same case with Doflamingo

I rate Jozu higher because he actually has better feats and portrayal. He could stalemate an admiral until distraction, which includes reaction speed, stamina and other things like that especially when talking about a fast admiral like Kuzan(just look at his leap at the beginning of the war), a feat Doflamingo will dream his entire life to accomplish. He has one of the best strength feat in this manga, only rivalled by Garp maybe that shits on any physical strength feat Doflamingo ever showed. He has the best defense in the world, capable to block island level slashes, another feat Doflamingo would dream himself to accomplish

Better portrayal as well because in the chapter "conflict at the summit", he was the most highlighted alongside admirals, Mihawk, Marco, WB when Doflamingo was ignored on the background

The blindside Onigumo-Marco style isn't changing that

None of that change the fact that he could not escape Parasite, nor could he escape the attack Doflamingo did. Distracted or not, both men took it head on while exerting no defense towards it, and Doflamingo broke out. Yes, Jozu has greater raw strength, but his portrayal and the feat of Doffy breaking out of the ice places him below the Celestial Dragon.

 

[Bogard]

None of that change the fact that he could not escape Parasite, nor could he escape the attack Doflamingo did. Distracted or not, both men took it head on while exerting no defense towards it, and Doflamingo broke out. Yes, Jozu has greater raw strength, but his portrayal and the feat of Doffy breaking out of the ice places him below the Celestial Dragon.

All that doesn't change the fact Jozu had better portrayal during that war


Getting highlighted as one of the most dangerous guys in the war alongside admirals, Mihawk, Marco in a chapter titled "conflict at the summit" and being highlighted as one of the deciding factors in the war >>>>> getting ignored during the same chapter
Oda didn't put both ice feats in similar context, so there is no superiority in portrayal there considering you don't even know if he was trying to compare Jozu to Doflamingo when he broke out of an unknown level of attack something like 200chapters later. Again fighting all out Kuzan >>>>>> Barely breaking out of the ice of chilling Kuzan and according to Buffalo, it only even happened because he wasn't frozen through, so lucky there, the Doflamingo

The next time we see Jozu, he isn't under parasite, suggesting he may have broken it, so invalid point.

 

[Apêx1]

Being put under parasite while distracted doesn't necessarily denote Doffy>Jozu portrayal wise. Jozu has better feats, Doffy has better portayal. As Riker said, Doffy broke out of Kuzan's stronger Ice attack while Jozu lost an arm to a weaker one. Let's not forget Kuzan wanted Akainu to be weary of Doffy because "he's exceptionally strong unlike some other Shichibukai's." Jozu's feats are much better though, he has far better durability and strength, and has comparable speed.

OT: Luffy stops at Ace in S1 and Vista at S2.

 

[Hexuze]

Stops at Smoker/Jinbei in S1 and Vista for S2.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Stops at Smoker/Jinbei in S1 and Vista for S2.

How does Luffy stop at Smoker for scenario 1?

 

[U mAd]

with heals luffy goes up to vista
no heals luffy losses to jimbei

 

[shivjee]

scen. 1 atbest vista
scen.2 doffy

 

[ToshiZO]

Ace>Iva
Jozu>Mingo
Vista>Mingo

Lol....nothing even indicates Vista is > Ace let alone Doflamingo.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Lol....nothing even indicates Vista is > Ace let alone Doflamingo.

Vista's portrayal was better than Ace's.

 

[ToshiZO]

Vista's portrayal was better than Ace's.

Meh not really. Ace stopping a named Admiral attack could technically be considered > anything Vista did.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Meh not really. Ace stopping a named Admiral attack could technically be considered > anything Vista did.

Zoro countered an admiral's attack as well.

 

[ToshiZO]

Zoro countered an admiral's attack as well.

Yea and that shows he's pretty strong. Its a good feat by Zoro, BUT you have to consider

-Aokiji was in a war and he was trying to kill Ace
-he used a named attack, Fujitora used his casual gravity attack which he used on the fodders who were gambling with him.
-Ace completely halted the attack, he matched it. Zoro was bleeding and panting heavily
-Ace was already drained, if you looked at his vivre card it was more than half burnt already meaning Ace was faaaar from full power in the war.

So yea completely different scenarios.

 

[KingHashirama]

S1 = Smoker

S2 = someone after Ace.

Ace>Iva
Jozu>Mingo
Vista>Mingo

Iva > Ace.

 

[A v i]

Pheasant back gets casually trashed by Zoro or Luffy or even Sanji. It's not even Funny. Going against Gravity by all means is a lot hard to deal with than melting Ice.



OT:Luffy definitely can't win against Jozu, Mingo and Marco. I am not sure about Vista.