[Discussion] Luffy and Zoro vs Doflamingo and Vergo

[Bogard]

Let's see how it goes down

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Zoro beats Vergo high-extreme diff. Idk about Luffy vs Doffy.

 

[Bogard]

Zoro beats Vergo high-extreme diff. Idk about Luffy vs Doffy.

Ashura and gear4 are allowed in this match

 

[ssjelf]

If zoro and luffy are serious at first then zoro would beat vergo mid diff. Luffy could hold out long enough for zoro to come in and then they beat doffy high diff.

 

[Hexuze]

Vergo beats Zoro high diff. I don't think Zoro can cut through his FBH IMO.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Doffy and vergo would win, we don't know if zoro's haki is strong enough to cut through vergo haki, we only can assume that he can probably hurt him. So yeah zoro and Vergo would tie if not die together but 100% doffy solos. Luffy was getting stomped the whole fight ,matter of fact he would've died if it wasn't for law, so yeah doffy and his clone would tag on luffy while vergo and zoro are fighting. Doffy can coat his clone with haki to not make it die quickly or even remake it. I don't think that luffy's 4th gear would last that much.......

 

[Love Cook]

I don't think the SH's have a chance in hell.

Law did a lot of work on Doffy before Luffy entered the fight.

A fresh doflamingo would be a different story and would lay down some punishment on Luffy. Besides Doflamingo is more than capable to fight 2 VS 1, I think Zoro would have his hands full on Vergo already and has to watch out not to get sliced in the mean time by Doflamigo suddenly appearing behind him.

 

[Bogard]

Caesar could wake up from a COA grizzly magnum from Luffy while taking a direct hit while unprotected. Pica is stronger than Caesar and was protected by FBH too boot, yet Zoro's COA sanzen sekai ko'd him in one hit. It means the attack power behind Zoro's COA Sanzen Sekai is much greater and we talk about a grizzly magnum even Doflamingo avoided. Vergo isn't tanking that

 

[ANiMUS]

Zoro and Luffy take it high diff. :|

Luffy w/ Gear 4 from feats is> Doffy.
Zoro is probably>Vergo

 

[A v i]

OT: Luffy and Zoro wins IMO. Joker is stronger than Luffy as far as we know. He's taking g4 attacks like nothing so I can't see how Luffy can beat healthy Joker. However Zoro beats Vergo somewhere b/w mid and high dif then help Luffy to take down Joker.

Zoro beats Vergo high-extreme diff. Idk about Luffy vs Doffy.

Vergo ain't pushing Zoro to high dif let alone extreme dif.

Doffy and vergo would win, we don't know if zoro's haki is strong enough to cut through vergo haki, we only can assume that he can probably hurt him. So yeah zoro and Vergo would tie if not die together but 100% doffy solos. Luffy was getting stomped the whole fight ,matter of fact he would've died if it wasn't for law, so yeah doffy and his clone would tag on luffy while vergo and zoro are fighting. Doffy can coat his clone with haki to not make it die quickly or even remake it. I don't think that luffy's 4th gear would last that much.......

Vergo has 0 feats of being able to tank mountain busting slash. Zoro cuts him down. Every haki based feat of Zoro is above what we have seen from Vergo. I don't even get why exactly people even think Vergo can be a challenge for him even when he clearly lacks feats when compared to Zoro.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Caesar could wake up from a COA grizzly magnum from Luffy while taking a direct hit while unprotected. Pica is stronger than Caesar and was protected by FBH too boot, yet Zoro's COA sanzen sekai ko'd him in one hit. It means the attack power behind Zoro's COA Sanzen Sekai is much greater and we talk about a grizzly magnum even Doflamingo avoided. Vergo isn't tanking that

"Pica is stronger than Cesar" you have no prove of such statement. Pica can punsh him all day with his golem and it still wouldn't work since he's logia, once he uses his main body cesar can literary stop O2 from coming around pica which will make him Choke to death. And just because doffy avoided it doesn't mean that he couldn't tank it , vergo's haki was said to be the best by doffy

Vergo ain't pushing Zoro to high dif let alone extreme dif..



Vergo has 0 feats of being able to tank mountain busting slash. Zoro cuts him down.

That's not how haki works.

 

[Bogard]

"Pica is stronger than Cesar" you have no prove of such statement. Pica can punsh him all day with his golem and it still wouldn't work since he's logia, once he uses his main body cesar can literary stop O2 from coming around pica which will make him Choke to death. And just because doffy avoided it doesn't mean that he couldn't tank it , vergo's haki was said to be the best by doffy

1- Pica being stronger than Caesar is just an obvious common sense. One of the thing that don't even needed to be debatted. He is more or less Vergo level, someone who punks Caesar
2- Doflamingo never said Vergo's haki was the best

That's not how haki works.

Armament increase both your offense and defense. You can rate haki level depending on the damage output

Since i said this

Caesar could wake up from a COA grizzly magnum from Luffy while taking a direct hit while unprotected. Pica is stronger than Caesar and was protected by FBH too boot, yet Zoro's COA sanzen sekai ko'd him in one hit. It means the attack power behind Zoro's COA Sanzen Sekai is much greater and we talk about a grizzly magnum even Doflamingo avoided. Vergo isn't tanking that.

Considering the difference in destructive capacity between COA grizzly magnum and COA Sanzen Sekai, Zoro's COA is probably much stronger than Luffy's and thus stronger than Vergo's. And even if by some ridiculous logic, you think it's not the case, haki isn't everything.

Doflamingo has stronger armament than Luffy, but basic COA punches were damaging him, he avoided the power of G3 hits and G4 attacks was sending him flying. Luffy has stronger haki than Bellamy, but Bellamy could break through his haki in a combination with his attack strength. Luffy had no haki preskip, but could break through Gorgon sisters' armament with just brute force. Ideo who isn't a haki user was evenly matching and heavily damaging Sai(an armament expert).

People just want to glorify Vergo and his haki even when the manga contradict their logic. Haki isn't a barrier that suddenly makes you invulnerable to powerful attacks. Even with haki, if you fall from a mountain, you die

OT: Luffy and Zoro wins IMO. Joker is stronger than Luffy as far as we know. He's taking g4 attacks like nothing so I can't see how Luffy can beat healthy Joker. However Zoro beats Vergo somewhere b/w mid and high dif then help Luffy to take down Joker.

It's how i view it too. Though i think all out Zoro(with Ashura and all the shit) can mid diff Vergo at most since i think he high diffs him without it

 

[Venomous Cobra]

1- Pica being stronger than Caesar is just an obvious common sense. One of the thing that don't even needed to be debatted. He is more or less Vergo level, someone who punks Caesar
2- Doflamingo never said Vergo's haki was the best
Cesar himself is more or less on vergo's level Lol. Cesar>pica therefore your point is invalid.

Armament increase both your offense and defense. You can rate haki level depending on the damage output
Vergo was tanking the damage of smoker...someone who had more haki feats than zoro......that alone should justify my doubt about zoro's ability.
Since i said this


Considering the difference in destructive capacity between COA grizzly magnum and COA Sanzen Sekai, Zoro's COA is probably much stronger than Luffy's and thus stronger than Vergo's. And even if by some ridiculous logic, you think it's not the case, haki isn't everything.

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grizzly magnum completely destroys the target while zoro's technique cuts, Comparing the two is really illogical and weak honestly, luffy could've totally destroyed the golem if he used elephant gattling unlike zoro who simply cut it in half.

Doflamingo has stronger armament than Luffy, but basic COA punches were damaging him4
he avoided the power of G3 hits and G4 attacks was sending him flying. Luffy has stronger haki than Bellamy, but Bellamy could break through his haki in a combination with his attack strength.

Luffy had no haki preskip, but could break through Gorgon sisters' armament with just brute force. Ideo who isn't a haki user was evenly matching and heavily damaging Sai(an armament expert).
Which why I said that we can only assume that zoro can harm him. Punches are different from completely cutting the target, that's like one punch K.O to those who use their hands to fight. I've alrady made this point, but the problem comes when you think that zoro can completely cut him or use one tech to K.O him....

People just want to glorify Vergo and his haki even when the manga contradict their logic. Haki isn't a barrier that suddenly makes you invulnerable to powerful attacks. Even with haki, if you fall from a mountain, you die
Still doesn't make zoro strong enough to use sanzen sekai to K.O vergo, Like I said he can hurt him using his sword attack but no the damage will be small seeing how smoker was punching him all day but still couldn't push him to high diff. It's like me saying that vergoo would do this to zoro's sword

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here....

 

[ssjelf]

here....

Thats all fine and dandy but it has been explicitly stated that haki is weak to cutting techniques. This means that zoro has a clear advantage over vergo in damage. Death by a thousand paper cuts if you want but regardless zoro could still cut him just like he did pica. zoro didnt even try against pica. The only reason pica lasted very long because he was running most of the time. Zoro didnt even "blacken" his swords until the end and that should be considered the least of what zoro can do because asura still exists. If zoro went all out on vergo then vergo would not last long either.

 

[Bogard]

blablablabla...

One question. Who has stronger haki between Vergo and Doflamingo?

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Thats all fine and dandy but it has been explicitly stated that haki is weak to cutting techniques.
This means that zoro has a clear advantage over vergo in damage. Death by a thousand paper cuts if you want but regardless zoro could still cut him just like he did pica
Where?can you provide the panel?cause I don't remmeber that. And even then that would imply that vergo and pica are equal in haki which is completely false

zoro didnt even try against pica. The only reason pica lasted very long because he was running most of the time. Zoro didnt even "blacken" his swords until the end and that should be considered the least of what zoro can do because asura still exists. If zoro went all out on vergo then vergo would not last long either.

Nope. Pica played smart which is why he lasted long, and let's not forget that it's someone else who gave zoro enough momentum to cut the golem which is considered help. And zoro only used koka to finish odd pica's main body cause using haki against the golem would be useless.

One question. Who has stronger haki between Vergo and Doflamingo?

Well good to see that you're changing the same invalid points that you yourself has created....Lol

I would assume doffy.

 

[ultraChalk]

Luffy and Zoro take this, extreme diff.

This is known.

 

[Bogard]

Well good to see that you're changing the same invalid points that you yourself has created....Lol

I would assume doffy.

I'm not changing anything. It's part of my argument

Well since you consider Doffy's haki stronger, then the better. Do you know Doffy was bleeding by just grabbing a stationary blade? So let alone him actually trying to tank the force of a COA sanzen sekai. And considering Doffy's haki > Vergo's, you do the math. Vergo gets one shoted

 

[A v i]

That's not how haki works.

How would it work then? COA when used as an offence is a power that helps you to boost your brute strength or attack power. Haki on more than one occasion was shown to be overpowered by pure haki less brute strength which means that if you're attack power is stronger than your enemies attack then you'll be able to overpower it even if you're haki is not as strong as that of your enemy. Zoro is a pure haki user just like Vergo and has displayed far more powerful attacks than Vergo. Again I don't even get how you're assuming that he can tank Zoro's attacks.

 

[Rike Senju]

Doffy and vergo take it med diff.