LOLL Kishimoto proves Sarutobi's hype wrong, LMAO

[Owarij]

Im with Noody at this one. It's apparent that Kishimoto made Hiruzen out to be the strongest Hokage at a time where the Senju didn't play a major role. As you said by yourself, Orochimarus Edo Tensei was indeed perfected, Hashirama fought with the techniques and the power scale Kishimoto awarded him at this time. Hiruzen was known for his mastery of all arts and techniques of Konoha, yet the Senjus were known for their mastery of all arts and one thousand Jutsu. Hashirama, the strongest Senju of all, didn't only was hyped for this, he was also in the possession of the scroll which includes Konohas techniques, too, and possesses on top of that medical skills which are far above Tsunades level and the mot powerful Kekkei Genkai.

Owarij, at some point you should stop this fanboyism. Look on how both were portrayed in part 2 of the series. Hashirama, the most powerful Shinobi no one was able to compare with after his time, a power great enough that everyone in the series is seeking for, whether Madara or Orochimaru. A power which, according to Madara, exceeds those of the five Kage together by far. Madara at his current stage cannot stop riding his dick. Hiruzen however is no one in part 2 of the series, wasn't portrayed for his great strength only one time. Or don't you think that someone, at least one would mention a Shinobi, who had an even greater strength than thi fairy tale strength? No, no one is playing a role when it comes to Hashirama.

In no way am I denying that Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen... his abiltiies are on a severly larger scale... what I am arguing is that despite that fact, hiruzen can still defeat him, mostly due to his knowledge of his abilities and ability to counter them

 

[Strict]

In no way am I denying that Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen... his abiltiies are on a severly larger scale... what I am arguing is that despite that fact, hiruzen can still defeat him, mostly due to his knowledge of his abilities and ability to counter them

Due to the many fights Madara had with Hashirama, he still had to be aware of what comes to him when facing Konoha with Kurama. Madara knew about Hashiramas abilities and faced him with his EMS, perfect Susanoo and Kurama and yet Hashirama handled Kurama and made Madara realize, that the EMS cannot beat him. Madaras current statements just confirm this. Ask yourself from where Hiruzen had his techniques. He was taught by Hashirama, the techniques he possesses he learned largely from Hashirama, the knowledge about the techniques of Konoha also came from Hashirama. Hashirama is too heavy for Hiruzen. While he could keep up with Hashirama and the same mastery of all arts and thousand Jutsus hype, I don't see him in any way surpassing the Mokuton on such a scale and medical skills which exceeds Hashiramas. Knowledge is only half a thing.

 

[Hachidaime Hokage]

Whatever the case, Hashirama is still the First Hokage, Sarutobi will still be the Third and Madara will remain a Power Hungry Uchiha...!

 

[LegendaryAce]

There is manga panels that show have proven Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, and you have nothing. Come back with a manga panel with the proof that he was the strongest Hokage at all time, and not at his era.

I'm done because this is like a wall, you can't go any ways with fanboys.

When Did I ever say anything about the strongest hokage

Also strongest hokage can mean alot of things .. It probably won't mean he can beat every hokage also
He was said to be the strongest hokage
By who?
How does the person know?
Did they see all the other hokages?
Unless its madara judging since he lived through all 3s primes then is understand but the person/people who called him that most proberbly were from his reign and look at noddys comment

 

[LegendaryAce]

hiruzen > hashirama people got confused due to the stupidity of kishimoto trolling orochimaru against itachi. thats why since 13 y/o itachi>orochimaru as we seen by feats. people concluded that
orochimaru>hiruzen
itachi>>>hiruzen
nagato>>>>>>>hiruzen
tobi>>>>>hiruzen
madara>>>nagato or itachi
hashirama>=madara
therefore
hashirama>hiruzen
edo hashirama got excuse by fanboys that it was a mindless puppets.

look at madara if it wasnt for edo and renigan upgrade he died plenty of times first was when a clone naruto + gaara. then tsunade punch him which separate his chest to his body

maybe that fight against itachi by orochimaru was he was sick like when he tried to takeover sasuke or the only way to get itachi's body is through genjutsu which itachi excels thats why he was raped!

If you can tell the difference between madara and hashirama the. You either can't read the manga or plain missed something

Edo madara - had free will to do whatever he wanted that's the reason he got himself out of Edo tensei
Hashirama - limited to what Orochimaru wanted him to do

Proof: kabuto says he used different tags giving his puppets controll over them due to the fact that they can mess up people's feelings

If hashirama and Tobirama were summon by kabuto like madara chances are Tobirama could get himself and his bro from it and then you can't controll them ..


Also hiruzen was being "raped" till he said there's no other way - and he used a suicide tech

Im not going to reply to any of those that have quoted me. Im not getting too involved in this fracas. Anyway kishi did proof Hiruzen's hype. Before the fight against orochimaru, he was claimed the strongest, that was just hype. However kishi have this hype feats when he matched the previous hokage's against hiruzen and Hiruzen beat them and died in the middle of sealing orochimaru. Kishi has backed this hype up when hiruzen was pitted against the former kage's.

Now im not saying that hiruzen in his prime/old age can defeat 2 hokage's because at that time the two hokage's were tools to orochimaru and tools are only as effective as the wielder. Still cannon that though the hokage's were being controlled and due to this were limited the same can be said about hiruzen.

We can to an extent speculate that, that fight was a watered down version if they were at their primes. The disadvantage to the previous hokage's was that they were controlled by somebody who didnt use them to their fullest capabilities. Possible because orochimaru himself didnt know what they could do. The disadvantage to hiruzen was that he was in his old age, his speed, chakra and strength has all decreased. The second disadvantage is that unlike hiruzen, the previous hokage's were in their youth, i suppose at the time of death, they had infinite chakra and their strength was still there. Add to this it was 2 vs 1. Hiruzen was at the disadvantage in that fight and still prevailed though at the cost of his life.

There is a reason why after Hiruzen got this hype, he was pitted against the 2 previous hokage's. That to me isn't a coincidence but rather kishi giving this hype, feat

Hiruzen was a perfect counter for Orochimaru and Edos why because of drs
Minato would probably have done better
My point being that it was all because of drs without that he would have died since he gave up

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

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No, it's specifically stated that Hashirama himself was considered a myth.. like the rikkudo sennin..
Meaning, there are people who don't think he existed, At all...

who would think that? as i said, only people of the younger generation

brb will edit post later

-______- you are trying to claim that people did not know the 1st hokage existed????? -____- so it went 4th, 3rd,2nd and no there was no 1st -____- it is obvious the translation meant his strength.

Anyway this ain't my debate signing out

Edit:

Never mind saw this translation, but was this translation even needed? for it to be understood it meant his strength. People didn't believe the first hokage existed -____- what bull

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[KingHashirama]

It only says that they are the best shinobi. Orochimaru says that hiruzen is HAILED as the God of Shinobi.

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Kabuto is not from the leaf. He is a war orphaned child, whos orphanage was on the out skirts of konoha. When he joined root he became a spy and traveled to many other villages. He wasnt recruited to spy in konoha until he began working for orochimaru, so the info gathered from him is gathers from many villages, not just the leaf.





Orochimaru says he was hailed as God of shinobi, he didnt say he was said to be.

2. They are hailed as the best shinobi.... Meaning according to the ANBU Tobirama and Hashirama are still the best the leaf had to offer. Soo.. "Was hailed"... vs "are hailed"... =]. "are hailed" wins.

3. Sir he was raised a leaf ninja..... under lord orochimaru.

5. You just mentioned Orochimaru now...and even Orochimaru said "was hailed" as.... while the anbu said "Are hailed as". ;]. See mate, even hiruzen's hype in the Part 1 is nothing now. The leaf recognizes those 2 as the best ninja of the village.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

In no way am I denying that Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen... his abiltiies are on a severly larger scale... what I am arguing is that despite that fact, hiruzen can still defeat him, mostly due to his knowledge of his abilities and ability to counter them

Hmm so like when naruto defeated the 3rd raikage with a mere rasengan because of the info he had about nothing being able to pierce him and he figured out he pierced him self..

I hear you..

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Fail upon fail i see.

1) Dan has never seen Hashirama nor Madara's full powers.

2) Dan doesn't know of Current Madara's power ups, All he knows is the hype behind him.

3) Point 1 & 2 Prove than dan's statement is Void and He is simply saying what he said because hashirama defeated him befor.

4) Dan Might of been alive During hiruzens prime, This doesn't mean he has ever seen his Full power.

Oh so Dan's statement is void, but not what was said about Iruka and the random ANBU during Hiruzens fight?

I'd consider Dan's statement more likely considering it's more up-to-date if we are doing what we should NEVER do and consider CHARACTER opinions, then Dan's would be correct as Sarutobi hasn't shown us anything that could make me think that he could tackle Hashirama in his prime.

 

[KingHashirama]

I say whatever I want to whoever I want, so don't come here and tell me what to do. The word fanboy was meant to the OP because I already know he dislike Hiruzen and loves Hashirama more than anyone else.

No point trolling?? If you can't make a decent argument , besides calling others fanboy, and the funny part is calling me a Hashirama fanboy. When I in true nature I'm a Naruto fanboy. No trolls please.

Failed logic. Just because you were around during that time period, that doesn't mean you saw him fight. That's like saying that Iruka has seen Naruto's BM because he was around during that time period.U_U

No sir.. Most accurate logic.. Proves Iruka's statement wrong. If people called him the strongest hokage.... then Dan would know. Use your brains mate. And Iruka has seen Naruto's BM..... lmao. wth. This is about hype not a feat.. cause Hiruzen has NONE. According to Dan's statement Hiruzen's "strongest hokage" hype never existed.

Hmm so like when naruto defeated the 3rd raikage with a mere rasengan because of the info he had about nothing being able to pierce him and he figured out he pierced him self..

I hear you..

I think he is still kinda underestimating the owner of Scroll of Seals.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

I think he is still kinda underestimating the owner of Scroll of Seals.

Yh but knowledge is a powerful thing. I think hiruzen would do a pretty fine job before he gets brutally killed.

 

[MickNerks]

2. They are hailed as the best shinobi.... Meaning according to the ANBU Tobirama and Hashirama are still the best the leaf had to offer. Soo.. "Was hailed"... vs "are hailed"... =]. "are hailed" wins.

They say hiruzen "was hailed", because they are reffering to him in his prime, They said tobi and hash are hailed because they died in their prime, if they were older like hiruzen they would also be reffered to as "was hailed"..

3. Sir he was raised a leaf ninja..... under lord orochimaru.

But before he was under orochimaru, was he not a spy in many other villages????

5. You just mentioned Orochimaru now...and even Orochimaru said "was hailed" as.... while the anbu said "Are hailed as". ;]. See mate, even hiruzen's hype in the Part 1 is nothing now. The leaf recognizes those 2 as the best ninja of the village.

Becuase hiruzen in his prime was hailed.. Hashirama and tobirama died in there prime, which in any case more of of reason why hiruzen must have been more powerful. He didnt die in his prime, and he was the longest reigning.

 

[BloodSeed]

Not in the official VIZ scan.

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Even in the scan you provided, there is an element of his strength being mythical, not his actual existence.

lol kabuto also stated that as long as he had THAT JUTSU he is INVINCIBLE then what happen???

 

[KingHashirama]

Yh but knowledge is a powerful thing. I think hiruzen would do a pretty fine job before he gets brutally killed.

I can't help but feel that he would have a WAAAYYY worse death then Madara did. Like it'd be a overkill or something man.

Becuase hiruzen in his prime was hailed.. Hashirama and tobirama died in there prime, which in any case more of of reason why hiruzen must have been more powerful. He didnt die in his prime, and he was the longest reigning.

Dude Hashirama was the strongest ninja when Madara climibing the ranks and when Madara hit his prime.... lmaoo. We don't know wth his prime was.. People in Hiruzen's era hadn't seen Hashirama's prime.
But the shinobi of the leaf consider Tobirama and Hashirama to be the best mate ;D. Not Hiruzen.

 

[Owarij]

you ¬underestimate how important knowledge can be in a fight, Yes alot of Hiruzen's jutsu would have been thought to him by Hashirama and tobirama, but he also had alot of time to refine and improve on those skills possibly even invent more.. here we have a fight where on one side we have a ninja with almost full knowledge of his teacher's fighting style and abilities, and he has a ninjutsu arsenal that has been constantly stressed on in the manga and databooks to be extensively wide.. What does this mean? with such an arsenal he should be have a counter for just about anything hashi throws at him.. let's not forget this man is a genius who instantly knew the weakness of one of hashiramas a rank genjustu.... As for moukouton we've seen that enma is easily able to destroy it, even Hiruzen knew that it would... my point is, knowledge goes far... sasori is stronger than sakura and chyo yes, but with a little knowledge of his poison before hand look what happened? Now imagine if they came into that fight with full knowledge of sasori and his puppets /abilities how much would have changed? my class is about to start and I'm on my phone, will reply later @hiddenshinobi precisely another, example where knowledge won a fight... there is a reason kakashi gains information on the opponent using a shadow clone first

 

[KingHashirama]

you ¬underestimate how important knowledge can be in a fight, Yes alot of Hiruzen's jutsu would have been thought to him by Hashirama and tobirama, but he also had alot of time to refine and improve on those skills possibly even invent more.. here we have a fight where on one side we have a ninja with almost full knowledge of his teacher's fighting style and abilities, and he has a ninjutsu arsenal that has been constantly stressed on in the manga and databooks to be extensively wide.. What does this mean? with such an arsenal he should be have a counter for just about anything hashi throws at him.. let's not forget this man is a genius who instantly knew the weakness of one of hashiramas a rank genjustu.... As for moukouton we've seen that enma is easily able to destroy it, even Hiruzen knew that it would... my point is, knowledge goes far... sasori is stronger than sakura and chyo yes, but with a little knowledge of his poison before hand look what happened? Now imagine if they came into that fight with full knowledge of sasori and his puppets /abilities how much would have changed? my class is about to start and I'm on my phone, will reply later /COLOR]

But He was mostly taught by Tobirama not Hashirama. Since Hashirama wasn't alive for that long after the creation of the village.

We've seen Enma destroy a 10% powerfull mokuton.. But nothing on the scope of this:

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That mokuton is too much even for Enma. And then Hashirama has Medical ninjutsu, and Chakra advantage.... and other forbidden jutsus in the Scrolls. And not to forgot he is physically stronger then Him. But what is Hashirama's weakness?? I mean you can stab him.... he regenerates. He can capture the 9-tails with a single hand while doing hand signs with the other one. Sarutobi proved he had no strong Jutsus when he had no choice but to use the suicide jutsu. And also his chakra level is lower then Onoki's.

 

[Expulso]

Ofc Hashirama is the strongest Hokage... non-debatable fact.

 

[TheOnlyBlackGaiHere]

I just realized this today, while debating on youtube. Kishimoto already proved hiruzen's title "God of shinobi" wrong.

People didn't want to be believe it through Madara Uchiha. But a more confirmed person has proved it wrong.

I bet you all know his name. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Tsunade's lover... DAN

This Man stated: Only hashirama could possibly stop Madara. LOL.

Funny part about that is.. Hashirama was way before Dan's time. lol. He was a jounin when Sarutobi was the Hokage ;p. And he had seen his prime. =3. xd

...Dan, the guy that barely lasted one chapter, why are we taking his word for it ? He could be a habitual liar for all we know

 

[Zlad]

But He was mostly taught by Tobirama not Hashirama. Since Hashirama wasn't alive for that long after the creation of the village.

We've seen Enma destroy a 10% powerfull mokuton.. But nothing on the scope of this:

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That mokuton is too much even for Enma. And then Hashirama has Medical ninjutsu, and Chakra advantage.... and other forbidden jutsus in the Scrolls. And not to forgot he is physically stronger then Him. But what is Hashirama's weakness?? I mean you can stab him.... he regenerates. He can capture the 9-tails with a single hand while doing hand signs with the other one. Sarutobi proved he had no strong Jutsus when he had no choice but to use the suicide jutsu. And also his chakra level is lower then Onoki's.

....

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Do you even know what you say?

 

[Owarij]

10% strong moukouton what are you talking about? no where was it ever stated that his moukouton was weakened.... it doesn't matter if it is bigger than they would just be easier to dodge... you seem to not realize that enma is made of diamond, he will easily cut through chakra infused wood just as he did before