Logic, Deductive reasoning, and the burden of proof

[itsxtrayy]

I've come across some threads recently where MANY people have displayed that they no Idea what the burden of proof means. To put it simply, if you make a claim you have to back it up with facts. For example: I say Sasuke can spit fireballs, now that i've made the claim that Sasuke can spit fireballs I have to show you a scan of Sasuke spitting fireballs to prove my claim. This is having the burden of proof and fulfilling it.

Evidence

Spoiler

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Now, if I say Naruto can spit fireballs i'd have to do the same thing and provide proof of it in the manga, and since there is none, my claim can be dismissed. If you can't PROVE it, it's a baseless claim. Also, the criteria for proof can't be conjecture or deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning ISN'T PROOF. Read more about deductive and inductive reasoning here.

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That's not to say deductive reasoning doesn't have it's important uses, it just can't be used to 100% prove a claim, deductive conclusions have to be scrutinized heavily to see if the conclusion's 100% follow the premises.

Now, onto DISPROVING claims. Someone will present a claim and say that it must be accepted because it cannot be disproved. This is bullshit, because without evidence there is no reason to accept ANY claim, even if there is no contrary evidence. One example is that Naruto can destroy the earth. There is no evidence that he can't, in fact, it's impossible to disprove that he can't, but as there is NO evidence of him ever destroying the Earth or an Earthlike planet there is no reason to accept that he can. Don't accept ANY claim without evidence. Now, the moment Naruto destroys the earth you can accept it, but NOT before you have EVIDENCE of it. This is how logic works, accept nothing until it's proven.

I'm sure all of you reading threads have come across people who just don't understand this concept even after you've explained it to them. I'm also sure that some people reading STILL don't understand, but as long as I've helped at least one person this thread was worth making.

 

[Locke Shaydow]

This just soloed most fanboys. Congrats

 

[Spirit Z]

Pointless thread is pointless.

 

[Kaneki Kun]

Ramen Guy>Kaguya manga fact. No further proof needed.
But honestly we all know this already.

 

[Anime Godd]

Then there is no argument if it is a fact. Then it is fact evidence doesn't always have to come in the form of a scan i.e. We all know that Naruto has all six elements so you can claim that he can learn chidori since he does have all six elements since chidori is lightning release evidence can come in the form of common logic or anything that can prove your claim and also you forgot about a warrant or rationale that explains how the evidence supports your claim one of the more important parts

 

[V h o]

As someone said before, you can put your brain into the freezer and still make better posts than some of the base.

OT: Yes, burden of proof is often ignored on base where assumption is passed off as fact

 

[DrProof]

Deductive reasoning in regards to a situation with only one possible outcome, that has been semi-foreshadowed can be taken as factual 90% of the time.

 

[Young Vongola]

Nobody is going to listen to this lol

 

[uchihaVSsenju]

correct me if im wrong but is your example of evidence from a filler movie

 

[ComplexCity]

I see that my thread has rustled you


OT: Too bad this will be ignored as other logical threads are on the base

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Lol. Ppl b trying to dodge shit with that burden of proof.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Pointless thread is pointless.

You'd be surprised how many people will argue without proof, stick around a little longer.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Lol. Ppl b trying to dodge shit with that burden of proof.

If you make a claim you have to prove it, it's that simple.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Deductive reasoning in regards to a situation with only one possible outcome, that has been semi-foreshadowed can be taken as factual 90% of the time.

We have a word for that, it's called belief, but there's still no proof, so you can BELIEVE it, but you can't ACCEPT it as fact until it's proven.

 

[Dockinabix]

If you use logic here, 99% of the forum won't understaind your argumentory and say things like: "didn't read lol", "useless thread" etc... in order to hide the fact they can't answer back to points too high for their grounded idiocy.

Like you can't transform a donkey into a race horse, you can't transform a retard into a full fledged fan, it's a lost cause here...
But, well, at least you tried. I salute that.

 

[DrProof]

We have a word for that, it's called belief, but there's still no proof, so you can BELIEVE it, but you can't ACCEPT it as fact until it's proven.

Suspect A: "Hah, yeah I just happened to be at the scene, and watched her bleed to death, while holding a knife in my hand, which JUST HAPPENED to be slightly blood covered. I didn't do it though, you have no evidence."

Suspect B: "I was at the scene, but I didn't do it, I swear! You can run any test on me to prove my innocence!"

Using reasonable (obvious) deduction, to single out the perpetrator the vast majority would choose Suspect A over B because it's foreshadowed he had blatantly committed the crime. This isn't belief, this is fact, the most probable, and factual verdict. Suspect A committed the crime.

Human-minds think alike for the most part, Kishimoto is no different. He blatantly foreshadows things so that we, the fans can put 2 & 2 together.

 

[V h o]

Suspect A: "Hah, yeah I just happened to be at the scene, and watched her bleed to death, while holding a knife in my hand, which JUST HAPPENED to be slightly blood covered. I didn't do it though, you have no evidence."

Suspect B: "I was at the scene, but I didn't do it, I swear! You can run any test on me to prove my innocence!"

Using reasonable (obvious) deduction, to single out the perpetrator the vast majority would choose Suspect A over B because it's foreshadowed he had blatantly committed the crime. This isn't belief, this is fact, the most probable, and factual verdict. Suspect A committed the crime.

Human-minds think alike for the most part, Kishimoto is no different. He blatantly foreshadows things so that we, the fans can put 2 & 2 together.

Note suspect A would still need more evidence (actual evidence) to be successfully prosecuted in court. Circumstantial evidence is one of the many ways people get railroaded into prison/jail.

 

[Aznkidd]

If you make a claim you have to prove it, it's that simple.

Simple, if the subject/object has connection with some evident and it has logic to the theory - things that can happen.
Like you eat today, some time later you will poop...

 

[DrProof]

Note suspect A would still need more evidence (actual evidence) to be successfully prosecuted in court. Circumstantial evidence is one of the many ways people get railroaded into prison/jail.

I was about to go into this if OP countered, I was awaiting for someone to bring this up to further more support my claim.

The world, the people in it, look to each other for validation, what is right or wrong, which is why we have a Jury to gather up the "evidence", and make a none-biased verdict against the suspect - guilty or not guilty. People respect, and ultimately accept the jury's final decision due to that:

I. Foreshadowing
II. Sensible Reasoning
III. Factual Reasoning
IV. Limited Choices
V. Vast Peer Perception

Falsely accused victims who land in jail had lawyers who more than likely were lackluster, or sub-par, and who didn't base their "evidence" of the victims innocence off I-III. More times than not the correctly accused have been put in jail because of Reasonable Deduction; meaning their verdict was factual.

Simple, if the subject/object has connection with some evident and it has logic to the theory - things that can happen.
Like you eat today, some time later you will poop...

Exactly.

Kishi does the same thing, with Buddhism in the Manga, and overall religious, and non-religious stories; The Rinnegan (The Saṃsāra Eye).

 

[V h o]

I was about to go into this if OP countered, I was awaiting for someone to bring this up to further more support my claim.

The world, the people in it, look to each other for validation, what is right or wrong, which is why we have a Jury to gather up the "evidence", and make a none-biased verdict against the suspect - guilty or not guilty. People respect, and ultimately accept the jury's final decision due to that:

I. Foreshadowing
II. Sensible Reasoning
III. Factual Reasoning
IV. Limited Choices
V. Vast Peer Perception

Falsely accused victims who land in jail had lawyers who more than likely were lackluster, or sub-par, and who didn't base their "evidence" of the victims innocence off I-III. More times than not the correctly accused have been put in jail because of Reasonable Deduction; meaning their verdict was factual.



Exactly.

Kishi does the same thing, with Buddhism in the Manga, and overall religious, and non-religious stories; The Rinnegan (The Saṃsāra Eye).

After all that, you still said nothing. For a successful prosecution you need key points, for example motive, DNA, being at the scene during the crime, and more evidence to deny the would be and circumstances that happen. Secondly the jury is there for a non bias appraisal of said evidence, and something with constitution on jury of your peers. Thirdly falsely accused victims are often sent to jail because of A: lack of evidence or B: speedy trial. For example, many accused rapists (who may very well fit this 'suspect' category) were indeed prosecuted and sent off to prison. And what exonerated them? DNA evidence some years later. They were railroaded through the system because the evidence was not concrete, it was based on belief.