[NEWS] Life's value...

chopstickchakra

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The time table was just a joke xd
Fair point though but lung capacity is enhanced not just by cardio, but also by freeweight squats. Its what I usually do as a substitute. Another part is diet. Animal protein is the leading cause of cardiovascular and heart diseases. It slibs arteries and brain tissue. Avoid that and your oxygen intake get a boost.

Younger brother haha whats your age if I may ask?




An Australian vegan activist once made a good point regarding non-vegans and their willingness to become part of the solution; "People have their minds made up before you even start to inform them of Veganism. Whether or not you'd approach them in a dismissive or soft way matters not. Even if you corrected all their petty approaches such as "plants feel pain" and "protein though", they'd still remain steadfast in their idiocracy."

Did I say a vegetable could be killed?
Please, I will not allow you to stupify the conversation by entertaining your pettiness. If you really want to hold on to your comparison of a carrot and a cow or a pig, you can do that elsewhere.
Like I said a hypocritical mental gymnastics in an attempt to comfort yourself. Life only holds value to you if you believe it perceives reality the same way you do. I never said you should feel guilty for doing it just pointing out thats what happens its funny how you can't admit that's what happens. To sustain ourselves we must take from another living thing, that's nature.

And they may not have brains as we do but if you believe the Taoist belief at all every item has the spirit of something that was once living so then we open a philosophical debate of what is life? Spirit? Consciousness? Thought?

You know humans are omnivores by design right, thats why we have canines and nails which are evolutionary remnants of claws, arguing humans should be on a 100% vegetation based diet is arguing against nature. We were not designed to be herbivores, we did not descend from herbivores.

Also your Australian activist is a cop out and full of shit. Because he's been unable to sway people's opinions he deems all non vegans as unwilling to change which completely devalues the idea of discussion. He's shifting blame at his own failings to the people he was unable to persuade.

People don't all have their minds made up on veganism but most all have their minds made up about the type of people pushing it on others because most of them are abrasive, arrogant, dismissive, and instigative in most cases, similar to how you entered this discussion coincidentally.
 
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chopstickchakra

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[email protected] lets end this shit ok????... u r 100 meatotarian men against 1 vegan..i'll have to side with him ...so don't push me into a luffy vs ussop merry going ship fight..ok???..
I dont care about veganism or meat...ism? I'm not arguing with this clown over which is better, even though he's trying his hardest to make it that so he doesn't have to acknowledge veganism still results in deaths. Its about the hypocrisy and not being able to admit your own faults while attempting to shame and/or demonize people for not feeling the same way about things as you do.
 

YowYan

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Like I said a hypocritical mental gymnastics in an attempt to comfort yourself. Life only holds value to you if you believe it perceives reality the same way you do. I never said you should feel guilty for doing it just pointing out thats what happens its funny how you can't admit that's what happens. To sustain ourselves we must take from another living thing, that's nature.

And they may not have brains as we do but if you believe the Taoist belief at all every item has the spirit of something that was once living so then we open a philosophical debate of what is life? Spirit? Consciousness? Thought?

You know humans are omnivores by design right, thats why we have canines and nails which are evolutionary remnants of claws, arguing humans should be on a 100% vegetation based diet is arguing against nature. We were not designed to be herbivores, we did not descend from herbivores.
I can't begin to wrap my head around the irony of the bolded opening statement of yours. smh

Here you are, as many before you, using the 'plants have feelings' nonsense as mental trickery so you can comfort yourself and disregard the trillions of lives that suffer greatly and die a brutal death.

Plants lack a central nervous system, pain receptors and a brain which means that anatomically they don't have the ability to feel pain.

I happen to own a copy of 'Taoism', I read it every now and then, lets not try and defile the book by twisting its content to your benefit.

Oh, right, that explains the fact we have flat teeth and jaws that move sideways like herbivores, a long intestinal traction like a herbivore and the ability to go a lifetime without consuming any animal products.
 
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minamoto

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I dont care about veganism or meat...ism? I'm not arguing with this clown over which is better, even though he's trying his hardest to make it that so he doesn't have to acknowledge veganism still results in deaths. Its about the hypocrisy and not being able to admit your own faults while attempting to shame and/or demonize people for not feeling the same way about things as you do.
trust me in reall life u and yoyawn u could be good frends...i just mean this threed isn't about meat and vegetables...it's deeper then that..it's about life..

now jokes aside : how did u celebrate new years????..
 
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YowYan

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Like I said a hypocritical mental gymnastics in an attempt to comfort yourself. Life only holds value to you if you believe it perceives reality the same way you do. I never said you should feel guilty for doing it just pointing out thats what happens its funny how you can't admit that's what happens. To sustain ourselves we must take from another living thing, that's nature.

And they may not have brains as we do but if you believe the Taoist belief at all every item has the spirit of something that was once living so then we open a philosophical debate of what is life? Spirit? Consciousness? Thought?

You know humans are omnivores by design right, thats why we have canines and nails which are evolutionary remnants of claws, arguing humans should be on a 100% vegetation based diet is arguing against nature. We were not designed to be herbivores, we did not descend from herbivores.

Also your Australian activist is a cop out and full of shit. Because he's been unable to sway people's opinions he deems all non vegans as unwilling to change which completely devalues the idea of discussion. He's shifting blame at his own failings to the people he was unable to persuade.

People don't all have their minds made up on veganism but most all have their minds made up about the type of people pushing it on others because most of them are abrasive, arrogant, dismissive, and instigative in most cases, similar to how you entered this discussion coincidentally.
1: That australian activist has converted over 10.000 people..possibly more as though he has a following of over 126.000 Try again

2: @bold Animals only hold value to you if you believe they perceive reality the same way you do.

Does it ring a bell yet?
 
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minamoto

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1: That australian activist has converted over 10.000 people..possibly more. Try again

2: @bold Animals only hold value to you if you believe they perceive reality the same as you do.
man u see me trying to stop this shit and yet u keep ading fuel to fire...stop it plz..
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lakookie one more butthurt enojis and i'll solo teh $h!t out of u..
 
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Demon

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I am yet to see when you will chat without bold letter in my 7 years of NF site . I have to clap and say kudos for staying in that minamoto persona lol .
It's not a persona man...
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Like I said a hypocritical mental gymnastics in an attempt to comfort yourself. Life only holds value to you if you believe it perceives reality the same way you do. I never said you should feel guilty for doing it just pointing out thats what happens its funny how you can't admit that's what happens. To sustain ourselves we must take from another living thing, that's nature.

And they may not have brains as we do but if you believe the Taoist belief at all every item has the spirit of something that was once living so then we open a philosophical debate of what is life? Spirit? Consciousness? Thought?

You know humans are omnivores by design right, thats why we have canines and nails which are evolutionary remnants of claws, arguing humans should be on a 100% vegetation based diet is arguing against nature. We were not designed to be herbivores, we did not descend from herbivores.

Also your Australian activist is a cop out and full of shit. Because he's been unable to sway people's opinions he deems all non vegans as unwilling to change which completely devalues the idea of discussion. He's shifting blame at his own failings to the people he was unable to persuade.

People don't all have their minds made up on veganism but most all have their minds made up about the type of people pushing it on others because most of them are abrasive, arrogant, dismissive, and instigative in most cases, similar to how you entered this discussion coincidentally.
Nobody is an omnivoure by design, that's like saying I was born without being athletic so I should not work out.
 
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Shanks

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man u see me trying to stop this shit and yet u keep ading fuel to fire...stop it plz..
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lakookie one more butthurt enojis and i'll solo teh $h!t out of u..
Man you are just burning the fire here let them debate dude . I personally like yowyan's points as well .
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It's not a persona man...
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Nobody is an omnivoure by design, that's like saying I was born without being athletic so I should work out.
lol i know him well even outside of forum ;) I wont tell much .
 

chopstickchakra

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I can't begin to wrap my head around the irony of the bolded opening statement of yours. smh

Here you are, as many before you, using the 'plants have feelings' nonsense as mental trickery so you can comfort yourself and disregard the trillions of lives that suffer greatly and die a brutal death.

Plants lack a central nervous system, pain receptors and a brain which means that anatomically they don't have the ability to feel pain.

I happen to own a copy of 'Taoism', I read it every now and then, lets not try and defile the book by twisting its content to your benefit.

Oh, right, that explains the fact we have flat teeth and jaws that move sideways like herbivores, a long intestinal traction like a herbivore and the ability to go a lifetime without consuming any animal products.
I never said plants had feelings, clown shoes, that was you super-posing your arguing points into my stance.

I said plants are life and eating them results in the termination of said life you then tried to twist it into they're not real life because they don't feel or experience life in the same manner as animals.

Thats mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that life is ending for sustenance. You may not value that life the same as other life, and never once did i tell you you should btw, but that doesn't negate the fact that a living thing ceases to be living.
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1: That australian activist has converted over 10.000 people..possibly more as though he has a following of over 126.000 Try again

2: @bold Animals only hold value to you if you believe they perceive reality the same way you do.

Does it ring a bell yet?
Having 126,000 like minded followers isn't any indication of persuasion, where's this arbitrary 10,000 number coming from? Does he release statements of yearly converts? Care to share your source with the class?

Arguing plants are life isn't arguing animals hold no value. Gonna have to try to come with more sense than that Joaquin.
 

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I never said plants had feelings, clown shoes, that was you super-posing your arguing points into my stance.

I said plants are life and eating them results in the termination of said life you then tried to twist it into they're not real life because they don't feel or experience life in the same manner as animals.

Thats mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that life is ending for sustenance. You may not value that life the same as other life, and never once did i tell you you should btw, but that doesn't negate the fact that a living thing ceases to be living.
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Having 126,000 like minded followers isn't any indication of persuasion, where's this arbitrary 10,000 number coming from? Does he release statements of yearly converts? Care to share your source with the class?

Arguing plants are life isn't arguing animals hold no value. Gonna have to try to come with more sense than that Joaquin.
I already mentioned this multiple times. Plants are alive, but not sentient. The whole earth is a living organism. The argument ends there. What merit does it bring to the discussion?

Like I said, if you want to stupify the conversation by comparing a carrot to a pig, do it elsewhere. Don't drag me down to your level.
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I never said plants had feelings, clown shoes, that was you super-posing your arguing points into my stance.

I said plants are life and eating them results in the termination of said life you then tried to twist it into they're not real life because they don't feel or experience life in the same manner as animals.

Thats mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that life is ending for sustenance. You may not value that life the same as other life, and never once did i tell you you should btw, but that doesn't negate the fact that a living thing ceases to be living.
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Having 126,000 like minded followers isn't any indication of persuasion, where's this arbitrary 10,000 number coming from? Does he release statements of yearly converts? Care to share your source with the class?

Arguing plants are life isn't arguing animals hold no value. Gonna have to try to come with more sense than that Joaquin.

The guy is known worldwide, has been on television and radio, heard by millions, followed by 100k on every platform, has been doing activism around the world for the past 7 years, so don't you worry about his statement of having converted over 10.000 people.

@bold; Then what was your motivation for continuously bringing up the same tactic that salamander used? If you are arguing veganism, bringing up the plants are alive argument tends to be the same repeated approach as a means to dismiss the brutalities within the animal agriculture industry. What was your underlying point?
 
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chopstickchakra

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I already mentioned this multiple times. Plants are alive, but not sentient. The whole earth is a living organism. The argument ends there. What merit does it bring to the discussion?

Like I said, if you want to stupify the conversation by comparing a carrot to a pig, do it elsewhere. Don't drag me down to your level.
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The guy is known worldwide, has been on television and radio, heard by millions, followed by 100k on every platform, has been doing activism around the world for the past 7 years, so don't you worry about his statement of having converted over 10.000 people.

@bold; Then what was your motivation for continuously bringing up the same tactic that salamander used? If you are arguing veganism, bringing up the plants are alive argument tends to be the same repeated approach as a means to dismiss the brutalities within the animal agriculture industry. What was your underlying point?
I wasn't the one comparing a carrot to a pig, that was you.....Jesus. you brought up the distinction of level of life between a plant and an animal.

I've explicitly stated my point, it's not underlying. Vegans end life for sustenance as well. Despite your high regard for yourselves you're no better than anyone else for the source of food you choose.

How about rather than harp on about this is it more ethical to eat a plant or animal debate you want to have why not address any one of the actual issues I brought up?

What are your projections on methane production if the entire farm animal population is allowed to live their natural life spans?

Any opinion on nature/evolution of human being omnivores and how pushing a 100% plant based diet would be contrary to that?

So rather than correct my "twisting" you just say you know more and try to dead the topic lol. Why not enlighten us? Do Taoist not believe plants are living things? Do they not believe spirits, including spirits of ancestors, inhabit all items including plants? And what happens to those spirits when their vessel is gone?

Or are you gonna keep talking about how I think plants have the same mental capacity as a dolphin, that Australian blogger and other things that have no actual connection to my original post?

Is it his statement or is it yours? Couldn't provide that source I see. None of that shows conversion, having a big audience doesn't show you're changing peoples minds it shows a lot of people think like you and like minded people support each other generally. Also if he did manage to convert non-vegans than that automatically disproves his quote which i said from the start was a cop out quote.


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It's not a persona man...
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Nobody is an omnivoure by design, that's like saying I was born without being athletic so I should not work out.
What do you think we are?


.
 
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I wasn't the one comparing a carrot to a pig, that was you.....Jesus. you brought up the distinction of level of life between a plant and an animal.

I've explicitly stated my point, it's not underlying. Vegans end life for sustenance as well. Despite your high regard for yourselves you're no better than anyone else for the source of food you choose.

How about rather than harp on about this is it more ethical to eat a plant or animal debate you want to have why not address any one of the actual issues I brought up?

What are your projections on methane production if the entire farm animal population is allowed to live their natural life spans?

Any opinion on nature/evolution of human being omnivores and how pushing a 100% plant based diet would be contrary to that?

Or are you gonna keep talking about how I think plants have the same mental capacity as a dolphin, that Australian blogger and other things that have no actual connection to my original post?

Is it his statement or is it yours? Couldn't provide that source I see. None of that shows conversion, having a big audience doesn't show you're changing peoples minds it shows a lot of people think like you and like minded people support each other generally.
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What do you think we are?


.
Ok but nobody forces you to be an omnivoure, the option is just there for us.
 
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minamoto

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I wasn't the one comparing a carrot to a pig, that was you.....Jesus. you brought up the distinction of level of life between a plant and an animal.

I've explicitly stated my point, it's not underlying. Vegans end life for sustenance as well. Despite your high regard for yourselves you're no better than anyone else for the source of food you choose.

How about rather than harp on about this is it more ethical to eat a plant or animal debate you want to have why not address any one of the actual issues I brought up?

What are your projections on methane production if the entire farm animal population is allowed to live their natural life spans?

Any opinion on nature/evolution of human being omnivores and how pushing a 100% plant based diet would be contrary to that?

Or are you gonna keep talking about how I think plants have the same mental capacity as a dolphin, that Australian blogger and other things that have no actual connection to my original post?

Is it his statement or is it yours? Couldn't provide that source I see. None of that shows conversion, having a big audience doesn't show you're changing peoples minds it shows a lot of people think like you and like minded people support each other generally.
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What do you think we are?


.
shopstikara...why aren't you listning to me...i know yoyawn asked for it and he's paying terible what he did..but it don't mean this should continiue...you stop now ok ????...read title..
 

chopstickchakra

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Ok but nobody forces you to be an omnivoure, the option is just there for us.
No one said anything about forcing anything, all I said was it's human nature to be an omnivore not a herbivore or a carnivore. The human body is designed to work best when getting nutrients from meat and plants.
 

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I wasn't the one comparing a carrot to a pig, that was you.....Jesus. you brought up the distinction of level of life between a plant and an animal.

I've explicitly stated my point, it's not underlying. Vegans end life for sustenance as well. Despite your high regard for yourselves you're no better than anyone else for the source of food you choose.

How about rather than harp on about this is it more ethical to eat a plant or animal debate you want to have why not address any one of the actual issues I brought up?

What are your projections on methane production if the entire farm animal population is allowed to live their natural life spans?

Any opinion on nature/evolution of human being omnivores and how pushing a 100% plant based diet would be contrary to that?

So rather than correct my "twisting" you just say you know more and try to dead the topic lol. Why not enlighten us? Do Taoist not believe plants are living things? Do they not believe spirits, including spirits of ancestors, inhabit all items including plants? And what happens to those spirits when their vessel is gone?

Or are you gonna keep talking about how I think plants have the same mental capacity as a dolphin, that Australian blogger and other things that have no actual connection to my original post?

Is it his statement or is it yours? Couldn't provide that source I see. None of that shows conversion, having a big audience doesn't show you're changing peoples minds it shows a lot of people think like you and like minded people support each other generally. Also if he did manage to convert non-vegans than that automatically disproves his quote which i said from the start was a cop out quote.
@bold: this sentence of yours is exactly why I dismissed you in the first place. Vegans âre the only one that actively try to avoid the systemic mass-murder of animals and all the devastation that comes with the industry, yet you feel like you're being shamed so you make an appeal to plants to try and prove a point of us being on the same level as you. So, indirectly, you ARE comparing plants to animals, you just leave that part out because it exposes your milked out argument.

I've heard this approach of yours many times over the years. It ain't pretty. Just a display of mental gymnastics, ironically.

Regarding the greenhouse gas emissions; I already mentioned this before, probably in another thread. There are 70+ billion livestock because we breed them into existence. As the numbers dwindle over the years due to a big change in supply and demand, so does the methane issue. Don't forget that its non-vegans that promote an industry that singlehandedly outweighs the entire transport sector worldwide when it comes to greenhouse emissions. Cars, planes, trains, etc. altogether don't even match the output of the livestock industry.

We are omnivores, I won't dispute that. The beauty in it is we have the ability to choose a more ethical lifestyle. Friends, not food. You could go the rest of your life as a vegan and be a cognitive sound 90 year old. No excuse other than taste.

About the globally known activist; It were his words. He had and has thousands of people messaging him or approaching him on the streets across the world, thanking him for making them more aware and helping them turn vegan. You see it in his videos constantly and also in the comment sections.

If you're wondering who I'm talking about:
You must be registered for see medias
 
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chopstickchakra

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@bold: this sentence of yours is exactly why I dismissed you in the first place. Vegans âre the only one that actively try to avoid the systemic mass-murder of animals and all the devastation that comes with the industry, yet you feel like you're being shamed so you make an appeal to plants to try and prove a point of us being on the same level as you. So, indirectly, you ARE comparing plants to animals, you just leave that part out because it exposes your milked out argument.

I've heard this approach of yours many times over the years. It ain't pretty. Just a display of mental gymnastics, ironically.

Regarding the greenhouse gas emissions; I already mentioned this before, probably in another thread. There are 70+ billion livestock because we breed them into existence. As the numbers dwindle over the years due to a big change in supply and demand, so does the methane issue. Don't forget that its non-vegans that promote an industry that singlehandedly outweighs the entire transport sector worldwide when it comes to greenhouse emissions. Cars, planes, trains, etc. altogether don't even match the output of the livestock industry.

We are omnivores, I won't dispute that. The beauty in it is we have the ability to choose a more ethical lifestyle. Friends, not food. You could go the rest of your life as a vegan and be a cognitive sound 90 year old. No excuse other than taste.

About the globally known activist; It were his words. He had and has thousands of people messaging him or approaching him on the streets across the world, thanking him for making them more aware and helping them turn vegan. You see it in his videos constantly and also in the comment sections.

If you're wondering who I'm talking about:
You must be registered for see medias

"As the numbers dwindle"...your not providing any real projections. By how much do you expect the population to decrease with the abolishing of farming? What is this decreased projection based on? There's 70 billion but what if it only goes down 20 billion? So you have 20 billion less cows but the ones left produce methane 5 times longer than their farm counter parts.

The average farm cattle produces 70 to 120kg methane per year lets go high end, 120. They live three years before slaughter, that's 360kg methane production per cow per life span(via farming) 360×70,000,000,000 = 2,520,000,000,000kg. If we take the lowest end of a vows avg. Life span which is 15 years that's a methane production of 1,800kg per cow per life span. The population of live stock would have to drop significantly to offset the increase they would produce. Using the previous example if the population dropped to 50 billion - 1,800 × 50,000,000,000 = 90,000,000,000,000kg as we can see to reach a similar 2.5 trillion kgs of methane the wild cow population would have to be reduced to around 1.5 billion cows. Do you see a realistic way of decreasing from billions and billions of cows down to just under 2 billion?

Farm life produces more methane than travel methods, don't know why you keep bringing this up as no one's been refuting it but ok, and yet you're advocating increasing the amount of time those producers are allowed to continue producing methane then say you're trying to help and remove methane. 1+1 don't = 2 in your equation.

It's not more ethical you self righteous **** stick. Is a bear more ethical when he eats a melon or some honey compared to if he ate a fish or human? You sound like an asshole.

Then that disproves his statement about non vegans being unwilling to change which was my initial point about said quote.
 
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