Lets take away given powers

[Darth AniCetuS]

Naruto has barely twice as much chakra as Kakashi with his Uzumaki stamina and Kyuubi chakra which naturally mixes into his own.

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Take them both away and Naruto would be lucky to have as much chakra as Kakashi, who himself states that he has little chakra reserves.

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It is also stated that Orochimaru with his various enhancements and augmentations still did not have the bodily reserves required to use Sage Mode, and we both know that Kakashi doesn't have nearly the amount of chakra that Orochimaru does.

Lastly,
>having the eye pigmentation is a sign of Sage Mode control mastery.
>Minato has the eye pigmentation, which suggests he has mastered Sage Mode.
>Minato claims he cannot use it in battle.
>As there are only two situations in which Sage Mode could not practically be used, those situations being lack of mastery and lack of proper reserves, process of elimination shows us that Minato's reserves were not large enough.

Jiraiya = Lack of Mastery, but ample chakra
Minato = Lack of chakra, but Mastery


But it would. If he could.

So you're telling me Naruto has less chakra than Jiraiya....
Still you did give me reasons for why you think so, but you missed the at least part from Kakashi....

Notice he says if Yamato doesn't suppress it.....
He meant the kyubi chakra Minato's seal was allowing to mix with Naruto's chakra + Naruto's own chakra which was being used to suppress the kyubi's chakra. Had Naruto drawn chakra from the chakra which was used to suppress the kyubi chakra then that would have created an imbalance in Naruto's body between the kyubi chakra and Naruto's own chakra disrupting his training and Yamato was tasked with suppressing that.

And Minato no where stated that he's unable to maintain SM because he doesn't have enough chakra, that's just how you're interpreting for the sake of your argument. Waiting and gathering NE to fight is simply not his style.

 

[Dizzldot]

Hahahaha, you act as if I care about your opinion. Maybe in 5 years and 16,000+ posts.

You're done here.

When a guy cares about your opinion because of time and post count, so a genius who is only 16 isn't a genius? that is why your reasoning is terrible.


Im 20 but if Im smarter then you and you're 25 I'm not smarter then you anymore?Wrong I'm still smarter then you haha you got solo'd

 

[The Necromancer]

So you're telling me Naruto has less chakra than Jiraiya....
Still you did give me reasons for why you think so, but you missed the at least part from Kakashi....

Notice he says if Yamato doesn't suppress it.....
He meant the kyubi chakra Minato's seal was allowing to mix with Naruto's chakra + Naruto's own chakra which was being used to suppress the kyubi's chakra. Had Naruto drawn chakra from the chakra which was used to suppress the kyubi chakra then that would have created an imbalance in Naruto's body between the kyubi chakra and Naruto's own chakra disrupting his training and Yamato was tasked with suppressing that.

And Minato no where stated that he's unable to maintain SM because he doesn't have enough chakra, that's just how you're interpreting for the sake of your argument. Waiting and gathering NE to fight is simply not his style.

Naruto's base chakra is roughly 2x as large as Kakashi's.

Kakashi and Jiraiya have stated that the Kyuubi's chakra is a fact of Naruto's base chakra and stamina.

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We also know that Naruto's base chakra and stamina are influenced by his Uzumaki genes. I trust you don't need a scan of that claim.

But...

Naruto also has access to raw Kyuubi chakra, which Jiraiya trained him to draw out.

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That is what gives him the potential to have 100x Kakashi's chakra levels.

But it is also unstable, which is why Yamato has to be there to restrict it.

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So now that we've established where his reserves come from, you have to use your imagination and imagine that Naruto doesn't have access to the Kyuubi's chakra that gives him reserves 100x greater than Kakashi's.

Then imagine that he doesn't have the chakra leaking into his own Uzumaki chakra, which would likely mean he would have around Kakashi's stamina, if that, similar to his father Minato, who himself stated that he couldn't use Senjutsu in a fight, not that he didn't like to.

When we get right down to it, without the Kyuubi or Uzumaki reserves, Naruto's stamina is likely exactly the same as Minato's. And judging by the fact that Minato had ample time and reason to use SM during his fight with Obito, yet didn't, it is safe to assume his lack of Sage Mode isn't dictated by a clashing of style, or his perception of its weakness, but buy his literal inability to maintain it long enough for it to be anything other than a detriment to his chakra reserves.

When a guy cares about your opinion because of time and post count, so a genius who is only 16 isn't a genius? that is why your reasoning is terrible.


Im 20 but if Im smarter then you and you're 25 I'm not smarter then you anymore?Wrong I'm still smarter then you haha you got solo'd

That's cute. Run along now. Nobody is debating with you.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Naruto's base chakra is roughly 2x as large as Kakashi's.

Kakashi and Jiraiya have stated that the Kyuubi's chakra is a fact of Naruto's base chakra and stamina.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

We also know that Naruto's base chakra and stamina are influenced by his Uzumaki genes. I trust you don't need a scan of that claim.

But...

Naruto also has access to raw Kyuubi chakra, which Jiraiya trained him to draw out.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That is what gives him the potential to have 100x Kakashi's chakra levels.

But it is also unstable, which is why Yamato has to be there to restrict it.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So now that we've established where his reserves come from, you have to use your imagination and imagine that Naruto doesn't have access to the Kyuubi's chakra that gives him reserves 100x greater than Kakashi's.

Then imagine that he doesn't have the chakra leaking into his own Uzumaki chakra, which would likely mean he would have around Kakashi's stamina, if that, similar to his father Minato, who himself stated that he couldn't use Senjutsu in a fight, not that he didn't like to.

When we get right down to it, without the Kyuubi or Uzumaki reserves, Naruto's stamina is likely exactly the same as Minato's. And judging by the fact that Minato had ample time and reason to use SM during his fight with Obito, yet didn't, it is safe to assume his lack of Sage Mode isn't dictated by a clashing of style, or his perception of its weakness, but buy his literal inability to maintain it long enough for it to be anything other than a detriment to his chakra reserves.



That's cute. Run along now. Nobody is debating with you.

I never denied that, in fact that's what I tried to explain in my previous post.
100x when he's not trying to suppress the chakra and actually using it. Surely you understand that the more Naruto had drawn chakra during the training above what was available after suppressing the kyubi's chakra the more the imbalance would have increased between his and kyubi's chakra. Let me try to explain it numerically...

Assume Naruto has 2x (At least...xd) of pure chakra available to him after suppressing kyubi's chakra that's mixing with his own.
And 50x of Naruto's chakra is mixing with 50x of kurama chakra and countering or suppressing it.

Another thing I'd like to point out as to why Kakashi insisted on suppressing the chakra that was a mix of Kurama and Naruto's chakra was for Naruto to master his chakra's dominant element the wind. With the Kurama and Naruto chakra mix Naruto couldn't have gotten a clear understanding of his dominant element type.
Now during the training he's using a lot of his chakra creating shadow clones and using chakra while training with all the shadow clones. If Naruto uses more than 2x of his chakra then he'll need to draw more from what was used to suppress the kyubi chakra, creating an imbalance bringing out the tailed beast transformation and thus hindering his training. So Yamato's role was to suppress that chakra if it comes to that. Hope you get it now.
So without suppressing Kurama chakra, Naruto's chakra would be far greater than Kurama's.

 

[Nick01]

Naruto wrecks.

 

[The Necromancer]

I never denied that, in fact that's what I tried to explain in my previous post.
100x when he's not trying to suppress the chakra and actually using it. Surely you understand that the more Naruto had drawn chakra during the training above what was available after suppressing the kyubi's chakra the more the imbalance would have increased between his and kyubi's chakra. Let me try to explain it numerically...

Assume Naruto has 2x (At least...xd) of pure chakra available to him after suppressing kyubi's chakra that's mixing with his own.
And 50x of Naruto's chakra is mixing with 50x of kurama chakra and countering or suppressing it.

Another thing I'd like to point out as to why Kakashi insisted on suppressing the chakra that was a mix of Kurama and Naruto's chakra was for Naruto to master his chakra's dominant element the wind. With the Kurama and Naruto chakra mix Naruto couldn't have gotten a clear understanding of his dominant element type.
Now during the training he's using a lot of his chakra creating shadow clones and using chakra while training with all the shadow clones. If Naruto uses more than 2x of his chakra then he'll need to draw more from what was used to suppress the kyubi chakra, creating an imbalance bringing out the tailed beast transformation and thus hindering his training. So Yamato's role was to suppress that chakra if it comes to that. Hope you get it now.
So without suppressing Kurama chakra, Naruto's chakra would be far greater than Kurama's.

What the ****? I don't understand at all.

That's just not true, unless you're trying to say that Naruto's and the Kyuubi's chakras are the same, which is also untrue.

Kakashi has "1" chakra, Naruto has "2" and the Kyuubi has "100."

Without the Kyuubi Naruto just has "2" or even possibly "1.5" compared to Kakashi's "1," but because Naruto's "2" is influenced by his own Uzumaki lineage, without said lineage Naruto's likely at Kakashi's level, which is similar to Minato's level, and as we've seen that Minato's Sage Mode isn't practical in any sense of the word, we have an indication that Naruto's would be no better.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

What the ****? I don't understand at all.

That's just not true, unless you're trying to say that Naruto's and the Kyuubi's chakras are the same, which is also untrue.

I never said that. All I tried to explain is that the chakra which was mixing up with Kurama's was something Kakashi didn't want Naruto to use during the training as he was trying to teach him his dominant nature element and for that using Naruto's pure chakra for the training was the best way to train him. But Naruto can't stop Kyubi's chakra from mixing into his and that's why Yamato was suppressing that mix of chakra so that Naruto can train with just his own chakra....

 

[The Necromancer]

I never said that. All I tried to explain is that the chakra which was mixing up with Kurama's was something Kakashi didn't want Naruto to use during the training as he was trying to teach him his dominant nature element and for that using Naruto's pure chakra for the training was the best way to train him. But Naruto can't stop Kyubi's chakra from mixing into his and that's why Yamato was suppressing that mix of chakra so that Naruto can train with just his own chakra....

Right.... and what does that have to do with Naruto's base chakra level being any better than Kakashi's or Minato's?

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Right.... and what does that have to do with Naruto's base chakra level being any better than Kakashi's or Minato's?

Well first off Kakashi already stated Naruto's pure chakra level (that is not mixing with Kurama's) is already at least twice of Kakashi's. And as I explained, if you take away Kurama's chakra from the chakra that is mixing with Naruto's then Naruto's pure chakra is much much more than twice as much.
Normally Naruto's chakra would be mix of Kurama and his own chakra, but Yamato suppressed it as much as possible allowing Naruto to draw on only his own chakra that is at least more than twice of Kakashi's.

 

[The Necromancer]

Well first off Kakashi already stated Naruto's pure chakra level (that is not mixing with Kurama's) is already at least twice of Kakashi's. And as I explained, if you take away Kurama's chakra from the chakra that is mixing with Naruto's then Naruto's pure chakra is much much more than twice as much.
Normally Naruto's chakra would be mix of Kurama and his own chakra, but Yamato suppressed it as much as possible allowing Naruto to draw on only his own chakra that is at least more than twice of Kakashi's.

But Naruto's base chakra is also influenced by the Kyuubi, and is not something Yamato was suppressing (or was shown to be capable of suppressing), meaning his own base chakra level is less than 2x Kakashi's, coupled with the fact that that number itself is based on Naruto's lineage means that at best he has Minato's chakra levels, and I have already explained why Minato didn't have the stamina for Sage Mode.

We're going around in circles here.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

But Naruto's base chakra is also influenced by the Kyuubi, and is not something Yamato was suppressing, meaning his own base chakra level is less than 2x Kakashi's, coupled with the fact that that number itself is based on Naruto's lineage means that at best he has Minato's chakra levels, and I have already explained why Minato didn't have the stamina for Sage Mode.

Well what you explained about Minato doesn't have any proof. Waiting to draw on more NE to fight is simply not his style and that makes a better explanation for me apart from that any SM user who wants to stay in permanent SM needs to fuse with Maa and Paa to let them gather the NE and transfer to the user. Even Jiraiya had to enter Fusion SM to use his SM techniques for longer durations. FTG for Minato has always worked for him and thus he never needed to rely on SM. No where has Minato stated that he didn't have the stamina to use SM. At the most his SM runs out much quicker than Naruto's or Jiraiya's wihtout using the fusion SM mode.
I still am not getting how you're coming to Naruto's chakra base chakra level is less than 2x Kakashi's. Kakashi himself stated that Naruto's pure chakra levels are at least twice his own. And I already gave you an explanation what exactly Yamato was suppressing and why.

We're going around in circles here.

That's what happens when people stick to there opinions and I am not gonna say you're wrong or I am right. To each their own as long as they're not trolling.

 

[The Necromancer]

Well what you explained about Minato doesn't have any proof. Waiting to draw on more NE to fight is simply not his style and that makes a better explanation for me apart from that any SM user who wants to stay in permanent SM needs to fuse with Maa and Paa to let them gather the NE and transfer to the user. Even Jiraiya had to enter Fusion SM to use his SM techniques for longer durations. FTG for Minato has always worked for him and thus he never needed to rely on SM. No where has Minato stated that he didn't have the stamina to use SM. At the most his SM runs out much quicker than Naruto's or Jiraiya's wihtout using the fusion SM mode.
I still am not getting how you're coming to Naruto's chakra base chakra level is less than 2x Kakashi's. Kakashi himself stated that Naruto's pure chakra levels are at least twice his own. And I already gave you an explanation what exactly Yamato was suppressing and why.



That's what happens when people stick to there opinions and I am not gonna say you're wrong or I am right. To each their own as long as they're not trolling.

Didn't read after bold, as you think he would rather put on his cloak and tuck in baby Naruto than prep Sage Mode and save his wife and village.

That alone is proof enough that Minato's lack of Sage Mode is not due to personal preference, but lack of ability.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Didn't read after bold, as you think he would rather put on his cloak and tuck in baby Naruto than prep Sage Mode and save his wife and village.

That alone is proof enough that Minato's lack of Sage Mode is not due to personal preference, but lack of ability.

You've not even given a single proof for what you claim and want me to believe it still lol. As I said, to each their own. I am odne explaining stuff to you. Since you don't get it, I won't waste any more words on you....:bye:

 

[The Necromancer]

You've not even given a single proof for what you claim and want me to believe it still lol. As I said, to each their own. I am odne explaining stuff to you. Since you don't get it, I won't waste any more words on you....:bye:

It is extremely moronic to believe that Minato would not use his ample prep time to active Sage Mode in order to save the lives of his wife and everyone in the village just because of personal preference. That's the epitome of retarded.

>Having the eye pigmentation is a sign of Sage Mode control mastery.
>Minato has the eye pigmentation, which suggests he has mastered Sage Mode.
>Minato claims he cannot use it in battle.
>As there are only two situations in which Sage Mode could not practically be used, those situations being lack of mastery and lack of proper reserves, process of elimination shows us that Minato's reserves were not large enough.

Jiraiya = Lack of Mastery, but ample chakra
Minato = Lack of chakra, but Mastery

I've already explained the only logical conclusion.

 

[Tyris]

Not true, Jiraiya is of an unknown clan and panhandle sage mode, so can Minato.

False. Fallacious claims.

Jiraiya couldn't handle sage mode and needed MA/PA for imperfect senjutsu...

Minato said hinself he was unable to use sannin mode in combat

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

It is extremely moronic to believe that Minato would not use his ample prep time to active Sage Mode in order to save the lives of his wife and everyone in the village just because of personal preference. That's the epitome of retarded.

>Having the eye pigmentation is a sign of Sage Mode control mastery.
>Minato has the eye pigmentation, which suggests he has mastered Sage Mode.
>Minato claims he cannot use it in battle.
>As there are only two situations in which Sage Mode could not practically be used, those situations being lack of mastery and lack of proper reserves, process of elimination shows us that Minato's reserves were not large enough.

Jiraiya = Lack of Mastery, but ample chakra
Minato = Lack of chakra, but Mastery

I've already explained the only logical conclusion.

Well Minato was short on time if you remember. Kurama was on a rampage in konoha, Kushina was in bad condition and Obtio was trying to kill him. I don't think anyone would be wasting their time on prepping SM especially when you're the Hokage and the lives of people are depending on you.
And throughout his life, Minato never came across an opponent whom he couldn't beat without SM. All the more reason for him to not rely on SM. His entire fighting style revolved around speed and not giving the opponent the time to counter. Prepping for SM would be doing exactly the opposite of that.
And as I said before, another reason for not using his SM could be that the NE he gathers in his SM is not huge enough to waste time gathering it. And ofc every toad SM user could've enter fusion SM except Naruto before he befriended Kurama and that's quite obvious. So if Minato has the time and need, I am sure he can enter a permanent SM by fusing with Maa and Paa.
And I am finally done.

 

[The Necromancer]

you lost give up

You are literally no one, with no opinion.

You will be gone within the week.

Well Minato was short on time if you remember. Kurama was on a rampage in konoha, Kushina was in bad condition and Obtio was trying to kill him. I don't think anyone would be wasting their time on prepping SM especially when you're the Hokage and the lives of people are depending on you.
And throughout his life, Minato never came across an opponent whom he couldn't beat without SM. All the more reason for him to not rely on SM. His entire fighting style revolved around speed and not giving the opponent the time to counter. Prepping for SM would be doing exactly the opposite of that.
And as I said before, another reason for not using his SM could be that the NE he gathers in his SM is not huge enough to waste time gathering it. And ofc every toad SM user could've enter fusion SM except Naruto before he befriended Kurama and that's quite obvious. So if Minato has the time and need, I am sure he can enter a permanent SM by fusing with Maa and Paa.
And I am finally done.

Hahaha. Right. Don't use your time to prep more powerful abilities, use it to put on your cloak and tuck in your son. Good plan. And you act as if Sage Mode takes 30 minutes to prep, when it's actually little more than 30 seconds for even an amateur.

Either you're wrong, or you think Minato is the most retarded, pig-headed, selfish, time wasting, moron in the series. So which is it?

 

[kiiro]

And? Jiraiya has huge chakra reserves but that has nothing to do with Naruto, and Minato's were not large enough for him to be able to maintain SM in battle, despite him having the proper control.

So if Naruto takes anything from his father, which he most certainly does, he wouldn't have the reserves to maintain SM either.

Minato had yhe chakra reserves enough to handle SM. He only said that is takes him more time to enter, bot that he wasnt able to mantain it. He said he cant mantain it for logng periods, but what is long?

 

[kiiro]

Tie i would say