lee and neji vs jiriaya

[RedRobin]

Alright I have came down to the belief that Jiraiya should win this high diff. Jiraiya's hair should be the absolute counter to both Lee and Neji, considering it can prevent Neji from using rotation and Lee from having an effect with physical attacks. Oil bullets should potentially cause trouble for Lee as well since he will have to watch out where he's walking if he doesn't want to be slowed down. Anyone saying the hair's strength isn't enough is deluded. It was capable of making a crab summon, who has an outer layer of armour to go "poof" [

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]. It can also pierce either of the two with relatively low difficulty [

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]. Lee isn't having much effect in this match., his physical attacks are blocked with no difficulty [

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]. Swamp of the underworld (a much smaller version, to save chakra) and not need to worry about it himself can be a game changer for lee as well. Nothing suggests Lee is proficient in reading hand seals and then immediately realising the swamp is coming from under his feet so that he can counter. It is unlikely, unless someone is willing to give proof. Once its occurred, Lee is basically an easy target for Katon, thus the swamp is dried up and it is unlikely he will be leaving it (he's probably fried as well).

I agree with this.

 

[Touken]

Apex, is Jiraiya's hair resistant against fire? Because if it isn't then he gets burned down by Lee's Asa Kujaku.

 

[RedRobin]

Apex, is Jiraiya's hair resistant against fire? Because if it isn't then he gets burned down by Lee's Asa Kujaku.

Feat that proves Lee can do it?

 

[Touken]

Feat that proves Lee can do it?

He can open 6G.

Asa Kujaku is a 6G technique.

 

[RedRobin]

He can open 6G.

Asa Kujaku is a 6G technique.

No, just because he can go 6 gates doesnt mean he has the technique, Lee has to show that he can punch so fast that he creates fire.

 

[Touken]

No, just because he can go 6 gates doesnt mean he has the technique, Lee has to show that he can punch so fast that he creates fire.

It says in the Databook that it's a 6G tech.

 

[TJ600]

Neji is a non factor. lee is dangerous due to Asa Kujaku, but we still don't know how powerful it is. My understanding of the gates are that they multiply your abilities from your base mode, and base gai>>base lee by feats. So we can't assume it's on Gai's levels. Overall I believe Jiraiya wins.

Edit: Didn't notice that summons were restricted. Team 2 may actually win. WITH summons, Jiraiya wins IMO.

 

[RedRobin]

It says in the Databook that it's a 6G tech.

Again we dont if he can punch as fast as guy to create fire. Gai's father opened the gates and I am 100% sure Gai's gates are much stronger than his father's.

 

[TheEvilOne]

He can open 6G.

Asa Kujaku is a 6G technique.

Sakura has the Byakugou seal but this doesn't mean she can use the Sozo Saize or the Byakugou no jutsu. Stop giving him feats.

 

[Apêx1]

Apex, is Jiraiya's hair resistant against fire? Because if it isn't then he gets burned down by Lee's Asa Kujaku.

Please remind me of its usage. It was never shown, it's a technique, not a given power. Difference? MS automatically gives Sasuke Amateratsu and Tsukiyomi. Gates is different, it's like Byakugan. You get the eye (gates in this scenario) but you have to learn the techniques to use them. He hasn't shown to use Asa Kujaku hence he doesn't have it... Unless of course, you can refute my points.

 

[Touken]

The gap between base Gai and base Lee isn't that big [

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]. The scan shows they both react to the attack at the same time and use the same appropriate counter for that situation.

The Primary Lotus is a 1G technique and all Lee needs to do is open the 1G, nothing more, nothing less. Once Lee's opened 6G, he's gone past that threshold to use Asa Kujaku.

@Apex, no actual learning is required for Asa Kujaku. The tech is just fast punches but it requires opening up to 6G. Here's what the Databook says:

Morning Peacock (朝孔雀, Asa Kujaku)
Taijutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Short range (0-5m)
User: Might Guy

Visiting unexpectedly from the depths of one's heart
Dancing in the sky are successive attacks of a wondrous bird!!

Utmost speed and utmost strength should be collected into one's own fist with all one's heart~~ The "Morning Peacock" is the certain-kill taijutsu born from this philosophy of Guy. The principle of this taijutsu is to rapidly increase the body's abilities by opening the "Eight Gates"¹ up to and including the sixth gate and then strike the enemy down with countless punches. With speed so high that the friction produces flames, the destructive power of the successive attacks doesn't even give the victim time to say his farewells. All enemies that faced this technique in the past were utterly destroyed! When Guy looks forward to certain victory, the flames from his fists paint the sky. As bright as the sunrise, as brilliant as a peacock's tail feathers!!

↓Surely only Guy could remain safe even after opening up to the sixth gate!!
[picture of Guy opening the sixth gate]

[picture of Guy hitting Kisame's copy]
←The technique is started by kicking up the enemy. For an ordinary person, this one shot would result in inevitable death.

For the person receiving the attack, nothing remains, but to get burned and die!!

¹ Eight Gates (八門, Hachimon). They are in order: the Opening Gate (開門, Kaimon), the Rest Gate (休門, Kyuumon), the Life Gate (生門, Seimon), the Wound Gate (傷門, Shoumon), the Limit Gate (杜門, Tomon), the Spectacle Gate (景門, Keimon), the Fright Gate (驚門, Kyoumon) and the Death Gate (死門, Shimon). Guy opens the first six.

 

[TheEvilOne]

But this is all assumption.

 

[Apêx1]

The gap between base Gai and base Lee isn't that big [

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]. The scan shows they both react to the attack at the same time and use the same appropriate counter for that situation.

The Primary Lotus is a 1G technique and all Lee needs to do is open the 1G, nothing more, nothing less. Once Lee's opened 6G, he's gone past that threshold to use Asa Kujaku.

Incorrect. Hirudora uses technique, as does Asa Kujaki. This was a db for Might guy alone. By that logic everyone has Susano in NV. *Edited

 

[sravan]

jiraya wins stop making lee a non-beatable character jiraya is a legendary sanin and he dealt with pain if he has intel he could have defeated him and i believe lee can't defeat six paths of pain even with 8 gates open.

 

[RedRobin]

jiraya wins stop making lee a non-beatable character jiraya is a legendary sanin and he dealt with pain if he has intel he could have defeated him and i believe lee can't defeat six paths of pain even with 8 gates open.

Lee is not unbeatable but he is very strong.

 

[Apêx1]

jiraya wins stop making lee a non-beatable character jiraya is a legendary sanin and he dealt with pain if he has intel he could have defeated him and i believe lee can't defeat six paths of pain even with 8 gates open.

His status doesn't make him strong, his versatility feats do. Deva would've murdered Jiraiya intel or not.

 

[Touken]

Incorrect. Hirudora uses technique, as does Asa Kujaki. This was a db for Might guy alone. By that logic everyone has Susano in NV. *Edited

There's no technique, it's just punches.

It was only for Guy because only he, at the time, could survive opening up to 6G, as it says in the databook page.

Anyway, he doesn't really need Asa Kujaku to beat Jiraiya. He can blitz without it. Jiraiya won't be using his hair as a shield if he can't perceive Lee's blitz, and 5G Lee's faster than Madara's Truth-Seeking Orbs [

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], and those Orbs are almost as fast as a double Kamui [

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].

 

[paratise]

Well so you admit Jiraiya can perfectly react to his speed.

Yeah show me feats of Jiraiya can react so something that can move faster than kamui or able to intercept Madara's gudoudama with kunai toss; please do so.

 

[Apêx1]

There's no technique, it's just punches.

It was only for Guy because only he, at the time, could survive opening up to 6G, as it says in the databook page.

Anyway, he doesn't really need Asa Kujaku to beat Jiraiya. He can blitz without it. Jiraiya won't be using his hair as a shield if he can't perceive Lee's blitz, and 5G Lee's faster than Madara's Truth-Seeking Orbs [

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], and those Orbs are almost as fast as a double Kamui [

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].

My point exactly. Nothing suggests Lee's striking speed=Gai's striking speed. Nothing suggests Lee can create enough friction for the technique. Nothing suggests he can use the punches required for this technique. Again, you're going by the most hyperbolic yet simple databook of all time. Quoting it is irrational when proving a point for a single character. This applies to many people. For example, databook says Ama and tsukoyomi are for every MS user, and Susano is made of the two. That has been disproven. Amateratsu is as hot as the sun, disproven. These were 'facts' of abilities which were only possessed by a single person. Gai, also is the only one to possess it at the time. Saying the DB is word for word true and unfalsifiable is fallacy. Lee has no feats of it, nothing suggests or implies Lee has the strength, striking speed, and level of 6th Gate that Gai posses. He can't perceive Lee's blitz? Lel, since when did Lee reach blinding speeds that are out of a users sight. Anyways, Lee doesn't want to hit Needle Jizo when he's going at blinding speeds, that will make him lose the limb he's attacking with while also damaging Jiraiya. Anyways, the scan you're showing makes it seem that the Gudo Dama is much slower than people perceive it to be. The kunai is thrown after the gudo Dama and is caught long before the Gudo Dama reaches, then is thrown again after that. Are you sure the Gudo Dama is as fast as you think it is? Unless you are saying reaction speeds, air resistance of kunai, throwing speed, and traveling speed can equate to a slight smaller scale the the Gudo Dama itself (noted that Kunai's can be stopped by fodders). Your comparison is flawed either way, Kishi error or the Gudo dama travels at differing speeds depending on the user.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Jiraiya wins.