[VS] Law vs Kuma

Punk Hazard

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Quote me where I said that Zoro was fatser than luffy, because I never posted anything like that. Kuma is still light speed.
Zoro dodged an attack you claim is moving at light speed. That automatically means that Zoro is faster than Luffy, as Luffy failed to dodge a light speed attack.
And ssjelf already pointed out that Zoro did not dodge that one coming attack, especially when Zoro took damage from it.
*Once again links page of Zoro dodging a swarm of the same attack without taking any damage*
There is no math, you're equation is completely wrong. You don't compare a laser moving at lightspeed to a bodily movement such as a kick. Kizaru kicking somebody is not a lightspeed attack, it's the laser that travels from his body.
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If Kuma stating that his air cannons are the speed of light is a fact, then the same applies for Kizaru saying his kicks are the speed of light.
 

Love Cook

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lol that people actually think Kuma's attacks really travel at the speed of light. And even more bizarre is that people think that Zoro can dodge that and therefore moves faster than the speed of light XD

If that would be true all the running in Punk Hazard would't have taken 8 chapters.
 

ssjelf

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Says you.

[video=youtube;FUIkGNBjnv8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUIkGNBjnv8[/video]

Anime rendition supports what I said. Being an animation of a canon scene, it's canon as well. Idk why you're fighting this so hard like Kuma's statement couldn't possibly be hyperbole. You really think Zoro then was fast enough to dodge a projectile moving at the speed of light? C'mon.
Since when is the anime canon lol, pshhhh you contradict yourself here... using the anime to support your statement is a giant fail

also no one is saying zoro moves faster than light, no matter how many times you say that is what we are saying, it doesnt make it true lol. zoro was in a position to avoid as they fired not after.
 

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Since when is the anime canon lol, pshhhh you contradict yourself here... using the anime to support your statement is a giant fail

also no one is saying zoro moves faster than light, no matter how many times you say that is what we are saying, it doesnt make it true lol. zoro was in a position to avoid as they fired not after.
Since when is the anime rendition of a canon scene canon? :|

Seeing as Zoro was upright as the projectiles were already moving through the air and then moved his body to dodge them after they were fired, yeah, he would have to be faster than the speed of light to dodge them.
 

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Since when is the anime rendition of a canon scene canon? :|

Seeing as Zoro was upright as the projectiles were already moving through the air and then moved his body to dodge them after they were fired, yeah, he would have to be faster than the speed of light to dodge them.
Since never.... the anime interprets things their own way and should never be taken as canon case in point this argument.

Yeah no
 
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Zoro dodged an attack you claim is moving at light speed. That automatically means that Zoro is faster than Luffy, as Luffy failed to dodge a light speed attack.
Zoro didn't dodge a speed of light attack and Luffy wasn't kicked at the speed of light. It's that simple.
*Once again links page of Zoro dodging a swarm of the same attack without taking any damage*
Neither which were being repelled at the speed of light during that time. You can see each air pad being sent at different speed than the other one. Kuma can choose how fast he wants to send his air pads. When Kuma did Ursus Shock, it didn't travel the same speed as the other pads he sent did it? No, his motive was to get Luffy. We've seen him move at lightspeed and sent every strawhat member flying in the shabody arc. Even getting in between Kizaru and Rayleigh's fighting without Kizaru even seeing him coming.
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If Kuma stating that his air cannons are the speed of light is a fact, then the same applies for Kizaru saying his kicks are the speed of light.
Kizaru didn't kick luffy at the speed of light. Freaking whitebeard caught him with one hand. Kizaru's feet was already next to luffy's face before he extended it. So no, Kizaru never kicked luffy at the speed of light.
 

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Once again you say this with absolutely no proof.
Zoro didn't dodge a speed of light attack
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and Luffy wasn't kicked at the speed of light. It's that simple.

Neither which were being repelled at the speed of light during that time. You can see each air pad being sent at different speed than the other one. Kuma can choose how fast he wants to send his air pads. When Kuma did Ursus Shock, it didn't travel the same speed as the other pads he sent did it? No, his motive was to get Luffy. We've seen him move at lightspeed and sent every strawhat member flying in the shabody arc. Even getting in between Kizaru and Rayleigh's fighting without Kizaru even seeing him coming.
They aren't traveling at different speeds, they're in different positions because they're being fired in rapid succession; each are moving at the same speed but are being sent one after the other. If an object is fired, and then another is fired afterwards, and both are traveling at the same speed, then the one that was fired first will remain ahead of the other one until the one fired afterwards gains speed or the one fired first loses speed.

If two cars leave a garage moving at 75 MPH, and neither change speed and they go the exact same route, the car that leaves first will remain ahead of the one that leaves second. Simple physics.

Kizaru didn't kick luffy at the speed of light. Freaking whitebeard caught him with one hand. Kizaru's feet was already next to luffy's face before he extended it. So no, Kizaru never kicked luffy at the speed of light.
And now you're contradicting yourself again. If Kuma saying his paw sends light-speed projectiles means that his projectiles are moving at the speed of light, then the same will apply for Kizaru.

You're trying to tell me that Kuma's statement about his attacks are a fact because Oda wrote Kuma saying so, but now you're trying to tell me that Kizaru's statement, making the same claim and also written by Oda, is not a fact because it doesn't fit your argument. That's biased.
 

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Once again, those air pads where not travelling at lightspeed.

They aren't traveling at different speeds, they're in different positions because they're being fired in rapid succession; each are moving at the same speed but are being sent one after the other. If an object is fired, and then another is fired afterwards, and both are traveling at the same speed, then the one that was fired first will remain ahead of the other one until the one fired afterwards gains speed or the one fired first loses speed.
No, that's only work if Kuma was shooting one palm at a time. But he was shooting both palms in pairs in a secession. Every single air pad that was being ejected arrive at irregular speed, even the ones that traveled in pairs.

If two cars leave a garage moving at 75 MPH, and neither change speed and they go the exact same route, the car that leaves first will remain ahead of the one that leaves second. Simple physics.
Two cars leaving at the same time. You're little equation here is screwed.

And now you're contradicting yourself again. If Kuma saying his paw sends light-speed projectiles means that his projectiles are moving at the speed of light, then the same will apply for Kizaru.
Kizaru's light projectile is lightspeed and there is no denying that. However, you brought up Kizaru's kicks. Kicking is a bodily motion. You don't compare a process extention of your legs to a laser being shot in one direction without pause. Kizaru didn't accelerate his kick until after his foot made contact with luffy's face. Because if that was lightspeed action right there, luffy wouldn't of made eye contact with with kizaru's foot next to his face.
It's not in every motion kizaru makes that will travel at the speed of light and the same with Kuma with his ability. Some cases are faster than the next. Otherwise you'll be telling me that Rayleigh was fight Kizaru in a sword action "at the speed of light."

You're trying to tell me that Kuma's statement about his attacks are a fact because Oda wrote Kuma saying so, but now you're trying to tell me that Kizaru's statement, making the same claim and also written by Oda, is not a fact because it doesn't fit your argument. That's biased.
Kizaru never kicked Luffy at the speed of light. Hawkins was kicked at the speed of light.
 

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Once again, those air pads where not travelling at lightspeed.


No, that's only work if Kuma was shooting one palm at a time. But he was shooting both palms in pairs in a secession. Every single air pad that was being ejected arrive at irregular speed, even the ones that traveled in pairs.



Two cars leaving at the same time. You're little equation here is screwed.
Nope. He was going one arm at a time. He did a right palm thrust then a left palm thrust and continued like that.


Kizaru's light projectile is lightspeed and there is no denying that. However, you brought up Kizaru's kicks. Kicking is a bodily motion. You don't compare a process extention of your legs to a laser being shot in one direction without pause. Kizaru didn't accelerate his kick until after his foot made contact with luffy's face. Because if that was lightspeed action right there, luffy wouldn't of made eye contact with with kizaru's foot next to his face.
It's not in every motion kizaru makes that will travel at the speed of light and the same with Kuma with his ability. Some cases are faster than the next. Otherwise you'll be telling me that Rayleigh was fight Kizaru in a sword action "at the speed of light."
Except Kizaru said he kicks at the speed of light.

There's also here:
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He sees Kizaru's energy coming and couldn't dodge it. You gonna go back on your word and also say this isn't the speed of light?
Kizaru never kicked Luffy at the speed of light. Hawkins was kicked at the speed of light.
It's the same kick.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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Nope. He was going one arm at a time. He did a right palm thrust then a left palm thrust and continued like that.
No he didn't. Otherwise he wouldn't hold two arms forward.
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1. First panel you can see both of his hands a lined horizontally together.
2. Second panel you see him finish with his right hand.
3. Second panel you see an irregular pattern the air palm is traveling, one is above kuma's hand and some are below the torso.

Neither of which were traveling at ligthspeed or in the same speed for that matter.

Except Kizaru said he kicks at the speed of light.
Except Kizaru never kicked luffy at lightspeed. Hawkins is a different story.

There's also here:
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He sees Kizaru's energy coming and couldn't dodge it. You gonna go back on your word and also say this isn't the speed of light?
Refer to post#25 as I said earlier:
No I didn't. Quote if I did.
And the one I highlighted in bold, I never said that either. Go back to the first page and read what I said carefully.
Kizaru also never recalled luffy getting shot with a laser. Even if he did during the war, he was already down when it happened.
It's the same kick.
No it's not. Because this is also a kick that Kizaru wanted to land that wasn't lightspeed.
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Kizaru chooses how fast he wants to move his leg. You don't measure bodily movement.
 

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No he didn't. Otherwise he wouldn't hold two arms forward.
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1. First panel you can see both of his hands a lined horizontally together.
2. Second panel you see him finish with his right hand.
3. Second panel you see an irregular pattern the air palm is traveling, one is above kuma's hand and some are below the torso.

Neither of which were traveling at ligthspeed or in the same speed for that matter.
Nope. The first panel shows Kuma's hands positioned irregularly. They aren't lined up in a linear way, but some strikes ahead of another. The last panel shows one arm cocked back and the other thrusted forward. That indicates that as one arm was thrusting, the other was cocked back getting ready to thrust, which supports what I was saying. If he was thrusting both arms at the same time, either both would be cocked back or both would thrusted forward.

Except Kizaru never kicked luffy at lightspeed. Hawkins is a different story.



Refer to post#25 as I said earlier:
And what is your proof that it wasn't a light speed kick?

It's also funny how you ignored Luffy noticing and failing to dodge a light blast, which you also said was light speed no matter what.

No it's not. Because this is also a kick that Kizaru wanted to land that wasn't lightspeed.
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That wasn't a kick, that was him charging an energy blast to shoot into Zoro.
Kizaru chooses how fast he wants to move his leg. You don't measure bodily movement.[/QUOTE]
 

Rikudou Tobi

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Nope. The first panel shows Kuma's hands positioned irregularly. They aren't lined up in a linear way, but some strikes ahead of another. The last panel shows one arm cocked back and the other thrusted forward. That indicates that as one arm was thrusting, the other was cocked back getting ready to thrust, which supports what I was saying. If he was thrusting both arms at the same time, either both would be cocked back or both would thrusted forward.
No it didn't. You can see both of his hands cocked back in the first panel and again it wouldn't make sense if he has both hands up.

And what is your proof that it wasn't a light speed kick?

It's also funny how you ignored Luffy noticing and failing to dodge a light blast, which you also said was light speed no matter what.
It's not a light-speed kick. Whitebeard caught him. You think Whitebeard can catch light-speed kicks now?
And again, you failed to read my quote again. Read properly
"Even if he did during the war, he was already down when it happened."
He just finished getting thrashed by a vice admiral on his knees, by the time he looked up he already got a laser through his body.
So I didn't ignore anything, you just refused to actually read my post.
That wasn't a kick, that was him charging an energy blast to shoot into Zoro.
No it wasn't
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Silly people... logically speaking, if Kuma is running on a battery and Law swipes a piece of him off
wouldn't that piece fail to work because there's nothing to power it? Or would it work like the human
bodies that are still living flesh even though they're not connected?

If Law's fruit cannot slice Kuma in half and make parts inactive, I can't see him winning. No way in hell
Law is strong enough to cut through manually and if he swipes him apart, the head(mouth) and hands(palm) can attack
with dismissal movement involved, including the ability to still just send him off to some foreign hell.

Overall I think Kuma is just physically stronger than Law and Law's fruit will be an ineffective way to shutdown
Kuma.
 

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Silly people... logically speaking, if Kuma is running on a battery and Law swipes a piece of him off
wouldn't that piece fail to work because there's nothing to power it? Or would it work like the human
bodies that are still living flesh even though they're not connected?

If Law's fruit cannot slice Kuma in half and make parts inactive, I can't see him winning. No way in hell
Law is strong enough to cut through manually and if he swipes him apart, the head(mouth) and hands(palm) can attack
with dismissal movement involved, including the ability to still just send him off to some foreign hell.

Overall I think Kuma is just physically stronger than Law and Law's fruit will be an ineffective way to shutdown
Kuma.
Machinery malfunctions and when cut by Law's fruit. Notice how SAD starts gushing out of the machine when Law cuts it despite being perfectly tranquil and still a moment before.[ ]

Even if the parts remained active, what good would they do when Kuma can't move severed parts once cut enough? As we saw with Vergo, when Law cuts you enough you can't do shit. And it's not like his limbs will gain a mind of their own. Law cuts off Kuma's arms and legs, they aren't moving from the spot they fall on. How is Kuma's severed arm supposed to repel Law when it's laying on the ground?
 

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Machinery malfunctions and when cut by Law's fruit. Notice how SAD starts gushing out of the machine when Law cuts it despite being perfectly tranquil and still a moment before.[ ]

Even if the parts remained active, what good would they do when Kuma can't move severed parts once cut enough? As we saw with Vergo, when Law cuts you enough you can't do shit. And it's not like his limbs will gain a mind of their own. Law cuts off Kuma's arms and legs, they aren't moving from the spot they fall on. How is Kuma's severed arm supposed to repel Law when it's laying on the ground?
They float, his hands doesn't require much movement to fire, only some movement to aim, same with his mouth.
If placement turns out nicely for Kuma(Mouth/Palms facing Law) he'd still be capable of his deadliest attacks, that
wildcard aside that Wano guy was capable of moving his legs even though they weren't connected to him and
his torso could fight, even Vergo was capable of moving his mouth which is enough for the mouth beams.
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Assuming Kuma has Haki and can feel where other characters are, or that he being a robot(cyborg?)
has given him the ability to make precise estimates where other characters are, I believe he can manage
to win. The destruction his palms themselves are capable of is ridiculous and they're pretty accurate at that.

That entire situation also only arises off of the assumption that Kuma can't repel Law's slices initially, or easily
avoid them with his ability to quickly appear in designated locations. Heck who knows, if his hands were sliced
off he could possibly have them vanish to a designated area which may be used for positioning or putting himself
back together.

Though if his body acts as machinery he stands no chance whatsoever.
 
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They float, his hands doesn't require much movement to fire, only some movement to aim, same with his mouth.
They what? And no, Kuma needed to **** back his arm and thrust to repel the air. The only times he repelled things just by holding his arm still was when the objects were being propelled into his paws. If Kuma's arm is laying on the ground, and Law is standing five feet away, his paws can't repel Law.

If placement turns out nicely for Kuma(Mouth/Palms facing Law) he'd still be capable of his deadliest attacks, that
wildcard aside that Wano guy was capable of moving his legs even though they weren't connected to him
He was capable of moving his lower body because they were attached to his waist. If his legs were separated from his hip and were just from the thigh down, Kinemon wouldn't have been able to make them walk. Sure he could move them and twitch them around, but he wouldn't be able to do anything useful to them.

and his torso could fight, even Vergo was capable of moving his mouth which is enough for the mouth beams.
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Same as above. Kinemon was able to move his torso because his arms were attached to them. Look at the image closely, he's using his left arm to hold his torso up as his right arm swings the sword. If Law had cut Kinemon at the shoulder and his arms were laying on the ground, they and his torso would be useless.

Law can disable his mouth with a cut like this:
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Assuming Kuma has Haki and can feel where other characters are, or that he being a robot(cyborg?)
has given him the ability to make precise estimates where other characters are, I believe he can manage
to win. The destruction his palms themselves are capable of is ridiculous and they're pretty accurate at that.
Supernova pre-skip were shrugging and dodging Pacifista beams, they ain't doing shit. Base Luffy dodged them by just moving his head to the side a couple times. Also, it's highly doubtful Kuma has Haki as he's dead and just a machine, lacking will and spirit.

That entire situation also only arises off of the assumption that Kuma can't repel Law's slices initially,
He cannot. Law's attacks aren't a thing that travel. Law's DF works by him swinging his sword, and whatever he's aiming the swing at is cut. There's no traveling slashes, no long range cuts, nothing like that. Unless Kuma can repel being cut in half, which is pretty damn obvious he cannot, he can't repel Law's cuts.

or easily avoid them with his ability to quickly appear in designated locations.
Moving out of the way as Law is slicing is more feasible.
Heck who knows, if his hands were sliced
off he could possibly have them vanish to a designated area which may be used for positioning or putting himself
back together.
This makes no damn sense.
 

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They what? And no, Kuma needed to **** back his arm and thrust to repel the air. The only times he repelled things just by holding his arm still was when the objects were being propelled into his paws. If Kuma's arm is laying on the ground, and Law is standing five feet away, his paws can't repel Law.



He was capable of moving his lower body because they were attached to his waist. If his legs were separated from his hip and were just from the thigh down, Kinemon wouldn't have been able to make them walk. Sure he could move them and twitch them around, but he wouldn't be able to do anything useful to them.


Same as above. Kinemon was able to move his torso because his arms were attached to them. Look at the image closely, he's using his left arm to hold his torso up as his right arm swings the sword. If Law had cut Kinemon at the shoulder and his arms were laying on the ground, they and his torso would be useless.

Law can disable his mouth with a cut like this:
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Supernova pre-skip were shrugging and dodging Pacifista beams, they ain't doing shit. Base Luffy dodged them by just moving his head to the side a couple times. Also, it's highly doubtful Kuma has Haki as he's dead and just a machine, lacking will and spirit.


He cannot. Law's attacks aren't a thing that travel. Law's DF works by him swinging his sword, and whatever he's aiming the swing at is cut. There's no traveling slashes, no long range cuts, nothing like that. Unless Kuma can repel being cut in half, which is pretty damn obvious he cannot, he can't repel Law's cuts.


Moving out of the way as Law is slicing is more feasible.

This makes no damn sense.
Had no clue he had to thrust em', in that case he loses, and that does make sense when comparing how Wano guy was put together.
 
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