[Spoilers] Law=Luffy

[Punk Hazard]

You're wrong there.... Luffy's armament on gear 2 maybe < Law ... but clearly not on gear 3 and 4.

How would Gear 3 or 4 enhance Luffy's Haki? Before you use the panel of Doffy trying to cut Luffy in Gear 4 and it feeling, that had nothing to do with the strength of Haki. Doflamingo made it clear that it was Luffy's elasticity that allowed him to deflect the kick. See, when you place a sharp edge against rubber, it places pressure on the rubber, causing it to bend backwards from the where the pressure is coming from. Once the rubber reaches a certain point, the pressure causes the sharp edge of the object to cut through the rubber. In Luffy's normal form, Doflamingo had sufficient strength to push Luffy's skin to that point and break it. In Gear 4, Luffy's elasticity is increased, so the breaking point requires even higher pressure, which Doffy could not produce, so the rubber didn't break(i.e., Luffy didn't cut). Haki may have played a role, but the fact that Gear 4 is so much more rubbery is why Doffy ultimately couldn't cut him without Awakening.

Law and Luffy are not equal.

"Read Dressrosa properly"? I did acknowledge all those times Law got ass-spanked by Doffy.

One character defeated Doflamingo while the other character was fodderized, had is arm sawed off, and could not move for 20 minutes. It's clear who's the stronger between the two.

You seem to be forgetting that if dozens of people didn't hide Luffy and get in Doflamingo's way, Luffy would be dead. This is against an already near-dead Doffy btw, Luffy needed dozens of people's help to defeat a severely handicapped Doflamingo, but here you are talking like Luffy had a stroll in the park with 100% Doflamingo. Yes, you are in dire need of re-reading Dressrosa.

Nice way to dodge the actual point mate. I just said that it's possible for his most powerful move to be stronger than Doffy's regular attack but if you have a problem with that belief then lets ignore that point for the time being as it doesn't effect the actual point of outr argument. For Law to have better haki than Luffy, he needs to tank an equally powerful attack as the one Doffy used against Luffy. Doffy's attack in Luffy's case was clearly more powerful as explained above so my point still stands. He was apparently using same strings with legs as well as hands so strings on Luffy's case shares the same level of cutting ability and the attack would be far more powerful if used along with legs as his leg strength far exceeds that of his hands as proved on numerous occasions.

Btw, Luffy actually deflected a similar attack.Albeit it was from one of his clones so I don't know if it counts.

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I have no reason to be fixed about this argument. I am willing to change my opinion, If you can prove me wrong with legit proofs.





I guess he was implying that it's possible to increase the level of your defense with excessive use of haki since Luffy apparently made his attacks more powerful by over using haki in G4 or something along these lines. I mean if you can make your attacks more powerful using more haki then you should technically be able to increase your defense by doing the same thought nothing actually supports that claim as far as we know at least.

NOTE: He wasn't mistaking it with Luffy's elasticity in G4.(As far as I understand)

Ito Joker is far weaker than Doflamingo. Ito Jokers were one-shotted by Jeet, Abdul and Kyros.

Luffy in his weakest form tanked Doffy's awakening attacks with minimal damage. This whole point of Luffy's haki being weak because he failed against Hody is a terrible argument if you ask me. Hody might be weak but his bite is most dangerous part about him so it's not really impossible for his bite to be more powerful than one of Joker's regular attacks. This argument itself is irrelevant in this discussion whatsoever and it doesn't support your point in slightest. Law tanked a weaker attack when Luffy tanked a much stronger attack with minimal damage. The portrayal you were talking about suggests no such a thing unless you think Doflamingo's kick (Backed up by momentum)= Simple one handed attack. Let me remind you how powerful Joker's kicks are just in case.

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^^^ That was his raw physical strength. He was using haki imbued strings during the attack that we were talking about. Attack in Luffy's case is clearly far more powerful.

Tanked Awakened attacks? Er, no. If Luffy in his weakest, near-dead form could "tank" the Awakened strings, why'd he bother dodging them in Gear 4? Are you trying to imply that exhausted Luffy's durability is so much greater than Gear 4 Luffy's that the latter needs to dodge an attack the former could tank?

The attacks also pierced through Luffy's Haki, a testament to Doflamingo's Haki being stronger than Luffy's as, by that point, it is safe to assume they were equally exhausted.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Law and Luffy are not equal.

"Read Dressrosa properly"? I did acknowledge all those times Law got ass-spanked by Doffy.

One character defeated Doflamingo while the other character was fodderized, had is arm sawed off, and could not move for 20 minutes. It's clear who's the stronger between the two.

You do know that's not really how it happened right? I mean you wouldn't purposefully ignore the fact that Law fought an admiral level on top of Doffy where as Luffy "fought" Bellamy and Doffy, the comparison isn't even in the same league. Law couldn't move for 20 minutes, Luffy ended up not being able to move for 10 and if he hadn't had Law and the others watching his back during that 10 he'd be dead. You say one character defeated Doffy but everyone(except you and a select few) understand and accept Luffy only won because of the ground work laid by Law. Luffy may not have been as beaten but he also didn't have to fight Fujitora and Doffy for 10-20 minutes(ish) before fighting Doffy. Luffy may(MAY) have been able to take the damage better but neither of them could have won on their own.

 

[ZoroXTashigi]

How would Gear 3 or 4 enhance Luffy's Haki? Before you use the panel of Doffy trying to cut Luffy in Gear 4 and it feeling, that had nothing to do with the strength of Haki. Doflamingo made it clear that it was Luffy's elasticity that allowed him to deflect the kick. See, when you place a sharp edge against rubber, it places pressure on the rubber, causing it to bend backwards from the where the pressure is coming from. Once the rubber reaches a certain point, the pressure causes the sharp edge of the object to cut through the rubber. In Luffy's normal form, Doflamingo had sufficient strength to push Luffy's skin to that point and break it. In Gear 4, Luffy's elasticity is increased, so the breaking point requires even higher pressure, which Doffy could not produce, so the rubber didn't break(i.e., Luffy didn't cut). Haki may have played a role, but the fact that Gear 4 is so much more rubbery is why Doffy ultimately couldn't cut him without Awakening.


You seem to be forgetting that if dozens of people didn't hide Luffy and get in Doflamingo's way, Luffy would be dead. This is against an already near-dead Doffy btw, Luffy needed dozens of people's help to defeat a severely handicapped Doflamingo, but here you are talking like Luffy had a stroll in the park with 100% Doflamingo. Yes, you are in dire need of re-reading Dressrosa.


Ito Joker is far weaker than Doflamingo. Ito Jokers were one-shotted by Jeet, Abdul and Kyros.


Tanked Awakened attacks? Er, no. If Luffy in his weakest, near-dead form could "tank" the Awakened strings, why'd he bother dodging them in Gear 4? Are you trying to imply that exhausted Luffy's durability is so much greater than Gear 4 Luffy's that the latter needs to dodge an attack the former could tank?

The attacks also pierced through Luffy's Haki, a testament to Doflamingo's Haki being stronger than Luffy's as, by that point, it is safe to assume they were equally exhausted.

Doffy never cut luffy's arm when he in gear 3, no rubbery here. And ... if Doffy can't cut him in gear 4... I don't see Law can do anything to Luffy, despite which one the biggest role haki or rubbery.
What I remember luffy isn't stupid enough to standing and wait someone to throw attack if it still can be dodge. Also when it stated Doffy's string become weaker when he exhausted (I remember someone said WB quakes didn't become weaker, despite he was near dead). If luffy can tank something like this:

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What Law can do to break his haki?

You also forget, Luffy is rushing his fight, (he used to much haki), because he need to help every Dressrosa population. If it one on one .. Luffy won't get exhausted in the middle of their fight (see, I also can make assumption).

 

[A v i]

How would Gear 3 or 4 enhance Luffy's Haki? Before you use the panel of Doffy trying to cut Luffy in Gear 4 and it feeling, that had nothing to do with the strength of Haki. Doflamingo made it clear that it was Luffy's elasticity that allowed him to deflect the kick. See, when you place a sharp edge against rubber, it places pressure on the rubber, causing it to bend backwards from the where the pressure is coming from. Once the rubber reaches a certain point, the pressure causes the sharp edge of the object to cut through the rubber. In Luffy's normal form, Doflamingo had sufficient strength to push Luffy's skin to that point and break it. In Gear 4, Luffy's elasticity is increased, so the breaking point requires even higher pressure, which Doffy could not produce, so the rubber didn't break(i.e., Luffy didn't cut). Haki may have played a role, but the fact that Gear 4 is so much more rubbery is why Doffy ultimately couldn't cut him without Awakening.

No, hardness decreases elasticity. That much should be obvious even in general & It's because of that reason Luffy couldn't stretch hardened parts of his body in any mode prior to G4. But Luffy somehow bypasses this drawback in G4 and keeps his elasticity despite using hardening. In other words Luffy maintains his hardening while retaining his elasticity which is an almost unbreakable combination. That's why Doffy failed to cut through his haki.

Ito Joker is far weaker than Doflamingo. Ito Jokers were one-shotted by Jeet, Abdul and Kyros.

Ya I know, that's why I wasn't sure about using it as an argument.

Tanked Awakened attacks? Er, no. If Luffy in his weakest, near-dead form could "tank" the Awakened strings, why'd he bother dodging them in Gear 4? Are you trying to imply that exhausted Luffy's durability is so much greater than Gear 4 Luffy's that the latter needs to dodge an attack the former could tank?

First of all I said he tanked it with minimal damage not that he completely tanked it. They did hurt him and get past Luffy's defense but they didn't inflect as much damage as they should normally do. Even Hody's bite was enough to bring him to near death state where as Luffy was seemingly fine even after taking so many hits from Doffy's awakening when he could barely protect himself. I mean the injuries weren't fatal enough to be life threatening. And what kind of fighter in his right mind would try to get hit by enemies attack even though he knew that it'd hurt him and make him weak in a way or another? Of course there are exceptions such as Vergo and Kaido but Luffy isn't one of them.

The attacks also pierced through Luffy's Haki, a testament to Doflamingo's Haki being stronger than Luffy's as, by that point, it is safe to assume they were equally exhausted.

That's not how it works. It's not appropriate to determine the level of haki by using an offense VS defense scenario as a reference IMO. We have Base Luffy breaking Doffy's defense during their CQC battle. Going by that logic Luffy's haki should be superior. It's a bit complicated to determine the level of DF users haki as most of their attacks are combinations of their fruits as well as COA. Their haki is more or less same IMO. Because they were clashing evenly when both of them went against each other with similar attacks as you can see

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. But again that was Doffy after taking GN from Law so I am not really sure about this one.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

When it comes to speed, Luffy and Law are neck and neck. Law was able to skillfully intercept an Overheat, which traveled several KM in a single second, with his sword. Meanwhile,

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Dodging is dodging, whether it is sloppy or not he still avoided it with his base form reflex, the body gets used to it as the time goes,

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compared to law's comfortableness(he had info plus he knew where doffy would whoop)

Don't even say Luffy was tired or injured by Bellamy; Law was injured from fighting Fujitora AND Doflamingo, and was using an ability that drains his stamina to do it.

He was injured but so was law, however luffy fought far more opponents than law did, doffy at the beginning gave law sanji's treatment(greenbit on the bridge) he was simply outclassed in every aspect despite the knowledge, and sure ypu could say that he didn't go all out, but that was only due dofffy not giving him a chance to, both gamma knife and king kong gun were the results of multiple team effort, G4 though pushes almost all of your stats up, while gamma knife only makes you more threatening only in terms of attacking(which is only one btw, either hit or miss type of attack which can't be only dodged by G4 lufffy considering his feat

Any speed feat Luffy makes with Gear 4, Law can replicate with Shambles. Luffy crosses a vast distance by running or propelling himself, Law crosses it as well with Shambles.

shambles only works when you can perceive the opponent's movement, which is in this case not possibles, but if you mean straight out movement speed, then even G2 luffy(who set the floor on fire by just running) can compare

As for Haki, Law has superior Haki.

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Luffy attributed his Haki being susceptible to sharp attacks at it being too weak, as he said he needed to continue training it. Since Haoshoku is Luffy's specialty, it makes sense Luffy would be falling behind in Busoshoku.

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When it comes to physical strength, Luffy takes it.

agreed

Except Gamma Knife did do the same damage. Of course Gamma Knife didn't knock down Doffy a few times, it was a one-hit move. The thing about Doffy being knocked down is that can easily be attributed to cumulative damage. How do you know if healthy Doffy was hit by G4, he wouldn't spring right back up? When Luffy finished his Gear 4 assault, Doffy was down for a few seconds, and then fixed himself using his strings. When Gamma Knife was landed, Doffy got back up after a few seconds and quick stitching. Equivalent damage. The fact that Doffy sprung back up due to using strings indicates Gear 4 did so much damage to him because it undid the stitching from earlier and enhanced the damage already done from Gamma Knife. After all, Doffy said his strings don't heal, and Gear 4 only does blunt damage, so what else would he be stitching together aside from his organs? That alone indicates that without Gamma Knife being hit prior, Gear 4 wouldn't have done the same damage.

Even if the result is equal, the moves themselves are clearly not

It didn't heal yes, but it did make his condition stable, the damage was not equivalent since
1-Dofffy avoided the purpose of the whole attack which was to destroy organs while he didn't in luffy's case
2-Law couldn't use it again, while luffy could
3-g4 puts strain on luffy's body which will dispensary with training and improving, law's Gamma knife leaves a long term effect which is decreasing life span
and no, you don't seem to get it, the entire point of gamma knife was useless when doffy maintained his organs attached till the end, hence law's frustration after doffy explained what he did, also as I stated in the other part g4 is something that is more useful in a battle as it pushes all of your stats to the max, leaving no weakness but only for a short period of time, while gamma knife only destroys person's organ, leaving you all the responsibility of getting close and being fast enough which law wasn't against doffy(which is why he asked luffy for help) and thus and as someone who was not only equal to awakegend doffy in that mode, but also possibly superior, he shouldn't be able to land it on luffy, and it even of it's as destructive in result. Those kinds of things put G4 above it in terms of battle.

Doflamingo IS blocking this. Being unable to block would be if the attack was too fast and he couldn't get his arms up in time. Doffy blocked the punch itself, but was launched by the momentum.

Not literary or technically

block
bläk/Submit

"she went for a run around the block"
verb
1.
make the movement or flow in (a passage, pipe, road, etc.) difficult or impossible.

Except he wasn't. To be speed blitzed would be to be caught completely off guard. Doflamingo activated his Koka as a means to defend, meaning he reacted to Luffy appearing next to him.

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This? koka? that seems like blood to me, plus notice how the blood is dripping after the kick, so either than koka was useless or that was just blood, most likely blood, though I could be wrong so if you could have a colored version(lol I don't know where people get them from)

Doflamingo hasn't displayed any CoO feats.

He did, he caught law's sword from point blank, now unless doffy has the third eye which I doubt he has, this looks like cOo to me, and you might correct me if Im wrong

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If Luffy speed blitzed Doflamingo with R. Schneider, then Doffy speed blitzed Luffy in this panel by circling around his attack and then diving in without Luffy being able to notice his movement till he stopped, and being surprised by the speed of the kick.

@bold, even after stopping, doffy couldn't even notice luffy, luffy on the other hand did notice doffy when he started his attack knowing that it would not effect him. The user of any fast traveling tech has to always stop before hitting

The thing about all of these attacks is that Doflamingo was caught off-guard due to not knowing what Gear 4 does.

Punching and kicking, nothing complicated, the rest were thing he needed in order to act in the most effective manner during the fight, which is considered a clear disadvantage for luffy m, since he as well didn't know much about doffy's strings.

Notice when Luffy used his first attack, Doffy tried to block it and was surprised by the strengthThe only reason he blocked was because he didn't know how strong it was. Afterwards, he tried to block again, but upped his game by using Haki. When that didn't work, Doffy upped his game again by dodging, but that didn't work because of Luffy's ability to maneuver his fist after punching. So, he upped his game again by maneuvering and then immediately going in for an attack so Luffy would be unable to maneuver his fist(Unless that happened after, can't quite remember). .

yes exactly which is what I said in the former part, it's only natural for that to happen, nothing really suggest that doffy could have dodged if he knew about it true strength. Knowledge does alot, especially for experienced people like doffy, however with his reflex feats, nothing much would have changed, he may have stayed in closer distance to at least decrease the amount momentum(since it seemed like g4 luffy was heavily depending on it)

Not really. Law could take an assault from Fujitora and Doflamingo together and go on fighting for the rest of the day(minus the time spent in cuffs). Law has the durability needed to properly fight Luffy. Law has one of the most impressive pools of stamina, endurance and durability in the manga.

Indeed he does, but it always either drops him down or makes him kneel, not to mention that doffy and fujtoura never attacked him together at the same time as far as I remember, law wouldn't be alive if that happened.

Don't get me wrong, law does have the durability/endurance to outlast someone but with that body size and the the clear gab between his endrance and doffy's I just doubt that it's enough to take multiple kicks and punches, doffy was only exsuthed and damaged from gamma knife, the rest of their attacks were either too weak to even make marks, or just minor ones like red hawk which I'd say did a small damage to doffy. The rest was completely nothing but G4+gamma knife(which damage was slow'd down and effectively reduced to almost half)+ Haki overdoes/drainess
Another thing to note is that Doflamingo didn't spend the ENTIRE 51 minutes getting beat down. After Doflamingo activated Awakening, it became cat and mouse for 20 minutes with Luffy needing to do all he could do dodge Awakened attacks. The fact that he bothered to dodge them shows they could have indeed harmed him significantly, otherwise he'd just tank them.

They weren't casual punches. All of Luffy's punches can be the same strength because, at the end of the day, their strength depends on how much effort Luffy backs into the punch. Luffy can hit you with a Cavalry Cannon weaker than a Kong Gun now, and a Kong Gun weaker than a Cavalry Cannon in a few minutes.

Not really, because king kong punch's max strength(thus far) surpassed cavalry canon clearly, and in both cases luffy wanted to make doffy go down, it was his top priority and thus I fail to see any reason for him to weaken it other than to make it faster, which is unnecessary seeing as how doffy was being stomped(even if he was successfully reducing the damage each time by blocking)

Doflamingo said his sewing doesn't heal any of the injuries he got. All the stitching did was pulled the organs back together to restore function and stop internal bleeding. The actual pain, the actual tearing to the organs and surrounding tissue, the already done internal bleeding, are still there. Pain is a greatly inhibiting factor. It's a fact that the more pain you're in, the less your body can function properly. The performance we saw from Doflamingo vs Gear 4 is NOT the best Doflamingo can do.

He doesn't heal but his organs were very stable, hence the pain is logically reduced as well.

 

[arv993]

Any forum and fan base in the world can tell you that Oda clearly portrayed G4 Luffy ey to be above law. Only in nb is this a huge debate cuz there is so much wanking for law and ppl trying under hype the mc. Puffy fought against awakened powers and fought Doffy wand was winning although he was hurt he still had the edge and was shown to be faster and durable and a superior haki to law. And yet u think they are equal. Law is gonna catch up but right now he loses to luffy.