Latest Missconceptions about Hashirama

Aim64C

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Welcome to the world of Japanese. One word can mean different things. My wife speaks Japanese and has a hard time understanding a lot of terms in Naruto.

Which is exactly my point.

What are they translating as "senpou?" Is its use consistent between the use of other sage mode activations?

Another reason I'm skeptical that it is a sage mode (or one we are familiar with) is due to the apparently short time Hashirama needed to enter this mode. Not that Kishimoto cares much for the restrictions he places on techniques - but even Naruto is shown to require an amount of time that is unwieldly in a tactical environment.
 

Thundercles

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Which is exactly my point.

What are they translating as "senpou?" Is its use consistent between the use of other sage mode activations?

Another reason I'm skeptical that it is a sage mode (or one we are familiar with) is due to the apparently short time Hashirama needed to enter this mode. Not that Kishimoto cares much for the restrictions he places on techniques - but even Naruto is shown to require an amount of time that is unwieldly in a tactical environment.
Hashirama, is Hashirama. He prob has mastered it on a whole other level. And it is Sage Mode. As you can see, Jiraiya, the Toads, and Sage Naruto have used "Senpou" techniques. AKA Sage Art. This shouldn't even be an argument at this point.
 

Aim64C

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Hashirama, is Hashirama. He prob has mastered it on a whole other level. And it is Sage Mode. As you can see, Jiraiya, the Toads, and Sage Naruto have used "Senpou" techniques. AKA Sage Art. This shouldn't even be an argument at this point.

*shrug*

I take up random arguments and continue them well past what others consider reasonable.

Apparently, scans of the Japanese manga are taking me a while to locate, but I am curious to see what characters are used and how consistently. Why? Because I am hard-headed and dissected Korean in an afternoon of cross-referencing. Making sense of what others only refer to as 'three men in a canoe with running man' is fun for me.
 

Psyduck

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He's still going on about this? Yeah, I'm sure Kishi has used Senpou to mean Sage Mode (in regards to the ability to utilize natural energy) every single time throughout the entirety of his many a, except for this single particular chapter. Yes, he expects everyone to understand that, just because its the exact same name, romanization, and appearance; it is NOT to be confused with Sage Mode that Jiraiya, Naruto, and Kabuto utilized.

Come on, man. Get off it. You know you're wrong. You clearly skimmed over the manga when you read it, and you didn't see the text Senpou or Mokuton, hence you making this thread. That's fine, and all, but YOU started with the insults. Now that you know you are wrong, you still refuse to just admit that you just didn't read the ****ing text in those particular pages. Are you that much of a child? Can t even say, "Who oops, my mistake. Carry on."?

He uses the exact same natural energy gathering stance, as well as the exact same words to initiate his "senpou" as other sages do. So why is he the only one who isn't a sage, when he initiates it and calls it the same thing as the CONFIRMED sages?

Point, Hashirama is a sage. How is that even surprising? I kinda saw it coming when Kabuto became sage. This is obviously the part where all the ancestors' pasts gets revealed, and multiple characters (all using the term senpou) has discussed the required strong body, and chakra to be able to utilize senpou techniques. Clearly, it was nudging to the Senju, who were known for their strong life force, bodies, and chakra reserves. The uzumaki, being cousins, are perfect candidates for sage mode. Naruto perfected it in no time. Jiraiya never perfected it, though he got around his own shortcomings by using amphibian technique with the old toads. It's why his appearance changed so drastically, whereas Naruto only gained frog eyes.

Same idea with snake sage with Kabuto. He was so horribly disfigured from his own experiments BEFORE becoming a sage, so it's hard to say what changes come from that, or his own expiraments, but the same eye shadow is a dead giveaway of a sage. The same markings Hashirama gained after he initiated the mode the same way everyone else did, and received the same dramatic boost in abilities as everyone else. While calling it the same exact thing as everyone else.

After all of this evidence, you STILL believe it isn't true? You're either a child who isn't big enough to own his own mistakes, or your a brain dead troll. Both are equally bad. Ball up, son.
 

Thundercles

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He's still going on about this? Yeah, I'm sure Kishi has used Senpou to mean Sage Mode (in regards to the ability to utilize natural energy) every single time throughout the entirety of his many a, except for this single particular chapter. Yes, he expects everyone to understand that, just because its the exact same name, romanization, and appearance; it is NOT to be confused with Sage Mode that Jiraiya, Naruto, and Kabuto utilized.

Come on, man. Get off it. You know you're wrong. You clearly skimmed over the manga when you read it, and you didn't see the text Senpou or Mokuton, hence you making this thread. That's fine, and all, but YOU started with the insults. Now that you know you are wrong, you still refuse to just admit that you just didn't read the ****ing text in those particular pages. Are you that much of a child? Can t even say, "Who oops, my mistake. Carry on."?

He uses the exact same natural energy gathering stance, as well as the exact same words to initiate his "senpou" as other sages do. So why is he the only one who isn't a sage, when he initiates it and calls it the same thing as the CONFIRMED sages?

Point, Hashirama is a sage. How is that even surprising? I kinda saw it coming when Kabuto became sage. This is obviously the part where all the ancestors' pasts gets revealed, and multiple characters (all using the term senpou) has discussed the required strong body, and chakra to be able to utilize senpou techniques. Clearly, it was nudging to the Senju, who were known for their strong life force, bodies, and chakra reserves. The uzumaki, being cousins, are perfect candidates for sage mode. Naruto perfected it in no time. Jiraiya never perfected it, though he got around his own shortcomings by using amphibian technique with the old toads. It's why his appearance changed so drastically, whereas Naruto only gained frog eyes.

Same idea with snake sage with Kabuto. He was so horribly disfigured from his own experiments BEFORE becoming a sage, so it's hard to say what changes come from that, or his own expiraments, but the same eye shadow is a dead giveaway of a sage. The same markings Hashirama gained after he initiated the mode the same way everyone else did, and received the same dramatic boost in abilities as everyone else. While calling it the same exact thing as everyone else.

After all of this evidence, you STILL believe it isn't true? You're either a child who isn't big enough to own his own mistakes, or your a brain dead troll. Both are equally bad. Ball up, son.

Ouch, that hurts me to read it and it isn't even directed at me.
 

Psyduck

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Well, I'm 99% sure it's just a troll, but on the very tiny chance he is, indeed, that stupid and childish, there's no way at all he can prove any of it wrong. Any insistence after reading my last post is purely trolling, without question.

His argument:
"It NEVER said "sage", or "wood release", so it isn't true.

People with a brains' response:
Actually, on multiple pages, it specifically used the words "sage art", and "wood release".

His argument:
"Well, there are different ways to use the term "sage", so that isn't proof.".

My response:
"He initiates the technique the exact same way confirmed sages do, he gains the exact same markings around the eyes that they do, AND he gains the same boost in abilities they do. Paired with the fact that it is written the exact same way the others have been, it's 10000000% safe to say that Hashirama is a sage. Why would Kishi use the same terms the other sages use to refer to something that is in no way related?

His response:
Nope




WORD!!!!
 

ImNoOne

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FAIL

this is how senpou is written in japanese 仙 術

that translates to sen art

sen means sennin which means SAGE. hence senpou means SAGE ART or SAGE TECHNIQUE

You can not translate from Japanese to Japanese. Translate Sen to Sennin is wrong. But You did got me rethinking. So I checked the Japanese Kanji in the manga, and turns out you are right it is indeed 仙術. Problem is that those two kanji together mean nothing. It reads Senpou just like 戦法, but it has no actual meaning although the two kanji separated does mean hermit art.

I went on reading some other originals and what I found was that it's not the only word badly rotten or conjured by Kishimoto. Ninpou or Ninja Art/Style as it has been translated it's also a no match according to good principles of Japanese writing traditions. Yet the pattern is the same.

Kishimoto seems to have used aglutination on these terms in order to build smaller words. As Ninpou is a non existing word on Japanese it was not difficult to translate. Actually in the primordial Naruto issues, Kishi wrote 忍 者 術, which means Ninja Art. Then later changed to 忍 法 which is the so called Ninpou, which in turn has no actual meaning but could be translated in a loose way into the art of endurance/forbearance/patience/self-restraint. Yet the precedent of agglutination was opened so it could be that the same thing happen to Senpou.

And that is the case. 仙人 which means rennin, translated as hermit or wizard has the same kanji as the one used in 仙術 (Senpou), so Kishi must have agglutinated the words to shorten out the name. Hermit/Sage Art should be 仙人術 but he dropped the 人 which robbed the word of any meaning. But seing as he did the same with Ninpou I'll guess it was alright.

Come on, man. Get off it. You know you're wrong. You clearly skimmed over the manga when you read it, and you didn't see the text Senpou or Mokuton, hence you making this thread.

Yes, that's true. I didn't read those two last panels on that page. But being wrong never stopped me from arguing a point, after all I can't be always right but I can always fight.
 

Aim64C

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Well, I'm 99% sure it's just a troll, but on the very tiny chance he is, indeed, that stupid and childish, there's no way at all he can prove any of it wrong. Any insistence after reading my last post is purely trolling, without question.

Hmm... This reminds me of a video.


You realize that this is an argument on the internet, where people are allowed to have varying opinions and interpretations of things, correct?

Obviously, anyone who is wrong is a troll.

His argument:
"It NEVER said "sage", or "wood release", so it isn't true.

People with a brains' response:
Actually, on multiple pages, it specifically used the words "sage art", and "wood release".

His argument:
"Well, there are different ways to use the term "sage", so that isn't proof.".

We are dealing with a work that has been through two tiers of translation and it is unknown what assumptions are made at each tier. If there were ever time for a time or place for semantic arguments, it's here.

My response:
"He initiates the technique the exact same way confirmed sages do, he gains the exact same markings around the eyes that they do, AND he gains the same boost in abilities they do. Paired with the fact that it is written the exact same way the others have been, it's 10000000% safe to say that Hashirama is a sage. Why would Kishi use the same terms the other sages use to refer to something that is in no way related?

Translators used the same terms, and the markings around the eyes differ between each "sage mode." The ability was initiated in exactly the same way -every- ninja ability is utilized.

As I already illustrated - the markings are not at all dissimilar to Tsunade's Yin release ability (and she's not of blood relation to Hashirama or anything)... more than one ability makes marks on the face. ... And what ability doesn't give "extra powers?" Kind of the point of an ability, no?

His response:
Nope

Kids these days. No reading comprehension.


Be sure to post this to your Zoosk profile.

You'll get some, for sure. You proved that you were legitimate.
 
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