Late Bloomers

itsxtrayy

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This is a concept that i'm not sure Kishimoto understands, in the manga someone is either a genius or a dropout two very large extremes. The concept of the late bloomer is NEVER brought up. People called Naruto a dropout, but I would argue he's just a late bloomer. He's not Rock Lee, who has no Nin/Gen talent whatsoever, he actually has talent as evidenced by him completing the Rasenshuriken and mastering sage mode. Things his "genius" father couldn't do. Naruto's "genius" exceeds Minato's and we shouldn't call him a dropout just because it took him longer for his potential to show. Scans like this try to downplay Naruto's talent when Kishimoto is showing us something completely different:
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Now, I would also call Sasuke a late bloomer. As stated by the manga numerous times Sasuke has talent that not only exceeds Itachi's but Madara's as well. I take this to mean that in his prime Sasuke would be stronger than them at every stage. To illustrate my point:
Prime 3t Sasuke>Prime 3t Madara>Prime 3t Itachi
Prime Ms Sasuke>Prime Ms Madara>Prime Ms Itachi(Just going by skills and chakra strength, not special powers like yata/totsuka)
Prime Ems Sasuke>Prime Ems Madara>Prime Ems Itachi
Prime Rinnegan Sasuke>Prime Rinnegan Madara(If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either)

But when we compare them all at similar ages Sasuke lags behind. As talented as he was as a kid, he was still a late bloomer. If his talent would of shone through he would of graduated early from the academy like all the other prodigies, but he wasn't even skilled enough to be ahead of Naruto, someone who failed the graduation exam three times. Even at 17 years old his talent hadn't fully bloomed yet unlike other people his age:
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Sasuke was an extremely late bloomer considering his talent. But this is just my two cents tell me what you think.
 

itsxtrayy

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Obviously Rinnegan Sasuke >>> Alive Rinnegan Madara since Sasuke got a direct power up from the sage himself but JJ Madara still shits.

"But" is the key word here.
Well, they were mostly hypotheticals,(Ems Itachi for example) but, i'll make my point even more clear. If Sasuke and Madara have the same exact power's and Sasuke's in his prime he will always be superior to Madara. I can't say it more clearly than that. Since they're both Indra transmigrants I have to conclude that "Sasuke" has more talent than "Madara" bar Indra.
 
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Ootoriyu Jin

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Well, they were mostly hypotheticals,(Ems Itachi for example) but, i'll make my point even more clear. If Sasuke and Madara have the same exact power's and Sasuke's in his prime he will always be superior to Madara. I can't say it more clearly than that. Since they're both Indra transmigrants I have to conclude that "Sasuke" has more talent than "Madara" bar Indra.
Yeh...and I agreed but I gave my extra two cents that JJ Madara still shits......
 

itsxtrayy

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Yeh...and I agreed but I gave my extra two cents that JJ Madara still shits......
You didn't agree tho... you ignored my caveat "If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either" and said "Obviously Rinnegan Sasuke >>> Alive Rinnegan Madara since Sasuke got a direct power up from the sage himself but JJ Madara still shits." instead. Which is you implying the only way rinnegan Sasuke would be above rinnegan Madara is because he got power from the sage. When that part of the thread compares them at the similar stages, if you agreed you would of said "yeah, if Sasuke was a jj that means he would shit on jj Madara as well." Or something like that. Best honest with yourself, you were just trying to fap Madara.
 

Ootoriyu Jin

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You didn't agree tho... you ignored my caveat "If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either" and said "Obviously Rinnegan Sasuke >>> Alive Rinnegan Madara since Sasuke got a direct power up from the sage himself but JJ Madara still shits." instead. Which is you implying the only way rinnegan Sasuke would be above rinnegan Madara is because he got power from the sage. When that part of the thread compares them at the similar stages, if you agreed you would of said "yeah, if Sasuke was a jj that means he would shit on jj Madara as well." Or something like that. Best honest with yourself, you were just trying to fap Madara.
I'll be honest, (If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either) This part made no sense to me but you did explain it in you reply to me but I didn't read it properly. And If we're talking about Sasuke with normal Rinnegan and EMS with no Rikudou boost from sage then Madara shits on Sasuke.
 

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This is a concept that i'm not sure Kishimoto understands, in the manga someone is either a genius or a dropout two very large extremes. The concept of the late bloomer is NEVER brought up. People called Naruto a dropout, but I would argue he's just a late bloomer. He's not Rock Lee, who has no Nin/Gen talent whatsoever, he actually has talent as evidenced by him completing the Rasenshuriken and mastering sage mode. Things his "genius" father couldn't do. Naruto's "genius" exceeds Minato's and we shouldn't call him a dropout just because it took him longer for his potential to show. Scans like this try to downplay Naruto's talent when Kishimoto is showing us something completely different:
You must be registered for see images

Now, I would also call Sasuke a late bloomer. As stated by the manga numerous times Sasuke has talent that not only exceeds Itachi's but Madara's as well. I take this to mean that in his prime Sasuke would be stronger than them at every stage. To illustrate my point:
Prime 3t Sasuke>Prime 3t Madara>Prime 3t Itachi
Prime Ms Sasuke>Prime Ms Madara>Prime Ms Itachi(Just going by skills and chakra strength, not special powers like yata/totsuka)
Prime Ems Sasuke>Prime Ems Madara>Prime Ems Itachi
Prime Rinnegan Sasuke>Prime Rinnegan Madara(If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either)

But when we compare them all at similar ages Sasuke lags behind. As talented as he was as a kid, he was still a late bloomer. If his talent would of shone through he would of graduated early from the academy like all the other prodigies, but he wasn't even skilled enough to be ahead of Naruto, someone who failed the graduation exam three times. Even at 17 years old his talent hadn't fully bloomed yet unlike other people his age:
You must be registered for see images

Sasuke was an extremely late bloomer considering his talent. But this is just my two cents tell me what you think.
Never thought about it that sasuke might also have been a late bloomer. I agree on some points and on others I don't. The thing is Madara and Itachi were older and had more experience than sasuke in their prime. So if you compare sasuke to them he might have been a late bloomer but when you compare him to people his age he obviously was not.
 

itsxtrayy

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I'll be honest, (If Sasuke unlocked it the way Madara did, and no JJ/Hashi powers for either) This part made no sense to me but you did explain it in you reply to me but I didn't read it properly. And If we're talking about Sasuke with normal Rinnegan and EMS with no Rikudou boost from sage then Madara shits on Sasuke.
Now, let me make my final point clear which you also seem to have ignored. This is Prime Sasuke with rinnegan and Prime Madara with rinnegan but he doesn't have sage mode or hashi cells(If we give them to Madara we have to give them to Sasuke because we're comparing them at the same level). That Sasuke is above that Madara like I said earlier. If Sasuke and Madara have the same exact power's and Sasuke's in his prime he will always be superior to Madara. This is what it means to have more potential than someone.
 

Ootoriyu Jin

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Now, let me make my final point clear which you also seem to have ignored. This is Prime Sasuke with rinnegan and Prime Madara with rinnegan but he doesn't have sage mode or hashi cells(If we give them to Madara we have to give them to Sasuke because we're comparing them at the same level). That Sasuke is above that Madara like I said earlier. If Sasuke and Madara have the same exact power's and Sasuke's in his prime he will always be superior to Madara. This is what it means to have more potential than someone.
Yeah I get it now but how do you measure Adult Rinnegan Sasuke without boost compared to the original? That statement by orochimaru ain't going to cut it.
 

itsxtrayy

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Never thought about it that sasuke might also have been a late bloomer. I agree on some points and on others I don't. The thing is Madara and Itachi were older and had more experience than sasuke in their prime. So if you compare sasuke to them he might have been a late bloomer but when you compare him to people his age he obviously was not.
Yeah, that's why I said considering Sasuke's talent he was a late bloomer. And I was comparing hypotheticals based on statements in the manga by Oro and Obito. The Sasuke who would be above them at those stages isn't 17 year old manga Sasuke, it's hypothetical 25+ year old Sasuke who has peaked all his skills, fully matured his body, and mastered all his eye powers.
 

Ootoriyu Jin

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Yeah, that's why I said considering Sasuke's talent he was a late bloomer. And I was comparing hypotheticals based on statements in the manga by Oro and Obito. The Sasuke who would be above them at those stages isn't 17 year old manga Sasuke, it's hypothetical 25+ year old Sasuke who has peaked all his skills, fully matured his body, and mastered all his eye powers.
I see but to be fair Madara also never full mastered his eyes powers.
 

itsxtrayy

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Yeah I get it now but how do you measure Adult Rinnegan Sasuke without boost compared to the original? That statement by orochimaru ain't going to cut it.
Orochimaru was making a general statement about Sasuke's potential in comparison to Madara's and said that Sasuke would surpass him, meaning that Sasuke as a ninja has more potential than Madara. It logically follows that if they're both in their prime and have the same powers/power-ups Sasuke would be superior. I don't have proof because I don't know how far i'd have to scale down current Rinnegan Sasuke for him to be at the level he would be without half of Hagoromo's chakra. I just used deductive reasoning and made an informed statement based on Kishi's words through Oro. I can understand if you don't accept that.
 

Ootoriyu Jin

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Orochimaru was making a general statement about Sasuke's potential in comparison to Madara's and said that Sasuke would surpass him, meaning that Sasuke as a ninja has more potential than Madara. It logically follows that if they're both in their prime and have the same powers/power-ups Sasuke would be superior. I don't have proof because I don't know how far i'd have to scale down current Rinnegan Sasuke for him to be at the level he would be without half of Hagoromo's chakra. I just used deductive reasoning and made an informed statement based on Kishi's words through Oro. I can understand if you don't accept that.
I know where your coming from but If Madara also mastered his Rinnegan he should be on par with Adult Sasuke but since Sasuke is one of the main characters I'm leaning towards him.
 
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