[Theory] Kishimoto's Inspiration Behind Rikudou Sennin Meeting Naruto Uzumaki

SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO

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I liked the first few pictures lol so you are saying that the sage never actually died because of attaining nirvana. Hmm this is a better explanation of how his chakra could survive

Well he did die but he found a way to "come back" in the future by sealing his Chakra inside the Bijūs like Minato and Kushina did.
 
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Cosman

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Some people have a problem with Kishi reusing this plot device...

But have we seen this plot device in any character other than Naruto? I think it's still a fresh device to relay information and it hasn't gotten boring yet.

Anyways hopefully we get some info soon. After 629 I've just been itching for this reveal.
 

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The Elder and Younger Sons are the Eye and Body of the Jūbi created with Banbutsu Sōzō, Naruto does not represent the Younger Son for then Naruto would represent the Body of the Jūbi which is absurd, Naruto as an Uzumaki represents Rikūdo, the human Uzumaki Rikūdo who fought the Jūbi before becoming its Jinchūriki, hence the proper dichotomy of human(Naruto) vs divine (Jūbi) is achieved

The story of the younger son and older son is a contest of succession, which can only have one winner. They essentially had two different ways of reaching enlightenment. The youngest being chosen for his path via empathy/self-sacrifice is in line with traditional dharma transmission. I'm not a buddhist scholar, so please don't take this as an absolute proclamation, but I'm not aware of any non-human entities gaining dharma transmission. I know the reverse is true. But from what I know of buddhism, magical beings that have become bodhisattvas, did so on their own. If that's the case, it seems like they would have to have been his flesh and blood children, who perhaps inherited a curse or mutation from the juubi that transferred a little of the yin/yang chakra into each respective child. Or, it's also possible that he simply imbued them with yin and yang respectively, to um, get rid of it :I

I think that if they were made with creation of all things, then the story does as you say make some dramatic sense, in that yin and yang are not supposed to be separate, but are one and the same cycling forever, changing forever. That's the Daoist tradition anyways. Both sons as avatars ( sort of like minato ) for the yin and yang chakra would also fit thematically and symbolically. Part of why I feel it's more likely the later is that the emotional stakes are higher. There's countless succession stories like this where a younger son is chosen over the older son and a feud is born. The most famous in the west being Cain and Abel. Not only is the younger son's way rejected, but you could even say his birthright was also taken, as the oldest is usually given first dibs. This backdrop disappears if they were artificially created at the same time. If that was the case why even call them older/younger. But, it's not like I think that legends are sooo accurate anyways. As if these technical points and accuracy would have survived in the story till now, however it is supposed to be straight from SO6P tablet.

Side note of interest: Juubi was (I assume) forcefully taken by Rikudou Sennin and they never understood one another. Then he split them into the Bijuus at the end of his life, where they became separate individuals, it's not clear they have a memory of their time as the Juubi or not. I'll assume not. So a buddha by force, not acceptance as Siddhartha versus Mara. This is how I believe Naruto will surpass Rikudou Sennin by accepting the Juubi, giving atonement.
 

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The story of the younger son and older son is a contest of succession, which can only have one winner. They essentially had two different ways of reaching enlightenment. The youngest being chosen for his path via empathy/self-sacrifice is in line with traditional dharma transmission. I'm not a buddhist scholar, so please don't take this as an absolute proclamation, but I'm not aware of any non-human entities gaining dharma transmission. I know the reverse is true. But from what I know of buddhism, magical beings that have become bodhisattvas, did so on their own. If that's the case, it seems like they would have to have been his flesh and blood children, who perhaps inherited a curse or mutation from the juubi that transferred a little of the yin/yang chakra into each respective child. Or, it's also possible that he simply imbued them with yin and yang respectively, to um, get rid of it :I

I think that if they were made with creation of all things, then the story does as you say make some dramatic sense, in that yin and yang are not supposed to be separate, but are one and the same cycling forever, changing forever. That's the Daoist tradition anyways. Both sons as avatars ( sort of like minato ) for the yin and yang chakra would also fit thematically and symbolically. Part of why I feel it's more likely the later is that the emotional stakes are higher. There's countless succession stories like this where a younger son is chosen over the older son and a feud is born. The most famous in the west being Cain and Abel. Not only is the younger son's way rejected, but you could even say his birthright was also taken, as the oldest is usually given first dibs. This backdrop disappears if they were artificially created at the same time. If that was the case why even call them older/younger. But, it's not like I think that legends are sooo accurate anyways. As if these technical points and accuracy would have survived in the story till now, however it is supposed to be straight from SO6P tablet.

Side note of interest: Juubi was (I assume) forcefully taken by Rikudou Sennin and they never understood one another. Then he split them into the Bijuus at the end of his life, where they became separate individuals, it's not clear they have a memory of their time as the Juubi or not. I'll assume not. So a buddha by force, not acceptance as Siddhartha versus Mara. This is how I believe Naruto will surpass Rikudou Sennin by accepting the Juubi, giving atonement.

Good points, I'm not entirely sure why the Uchiha Ancestor is called the Elder and the Senju Ancestor the Younger Son, it could be that Rikūdo didn't create them simultaneously, that he formed the Yin of the Jūbi into the Elder Son first and created the Yang Part into the Younger Son afterwards, like Adam preceding Eve maybe?
 

Gyakusetsu

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I'm not a buddhist scholar, so please don't take this as an absolute proclamation, but I'm not aware of any non-human entities gaining dharma transmission. I know the reverse is true.

Actually it is possible for non humans but very difficult. The idea being that if you are a Deva and immortal the temptations are much stronger as is the attachment to an immortal form. Being born as a human is the best opportunity to attain Nirvana.
 

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Actually it is possible for non humans but very difficult. The idea being that if you are a Deva and immortal the temptations are much stronger as is the attachment to an immortal form. Being born as a human is the best opportunity to attain Nirvana.

I'm a little confused, so you're saying that there are cases where humans have taught the dharma to non-humans? As I understood it, dharma transmission is the passing on of the dharma to a disciple, similar to the succession of the pope.

I know that in Japanese tengu mythology there are stories of Daishi who later become tengu. There's been a long standing connection there between Shinto holy mountain worship, the foreignness of buddhism, and demonizing of buddhist priests into tengu. There are other animal sages like Gama the 3 legged toad sage. But I'm not aware of any dead spirits or supernatural creatures who were taught the dharma and then started leading a sect. I'm aware that non-humans can be buddhas, but I know there are more than one type of buddha, and I was under the impression that all other creatures who have become buddhas have been pratyeka-buddha who have reached nirvana on their own but don't teach the dharma or samyaksambuddha who have reached nirvana on their own and teach the dharma. Not someone who was taught like an Arhat.
 
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The story of the younger son and older son is a contest of succession, which can only have one winner. They essentially had two different ways of reaching enlightenment. The youngest being chosen for his path via empathy/self-sacrifice is in line with traditional dharma transmission. I'm not a buddhist scholar, so please don't take this as an absolute proclamation, but I'm not aware of any non-human entities gaining dharma transmission. I know the reverse is true. But from what I know of buddhism, magical beings that have become bodhisattvas, did so on their own. If that's the case, it seems like they would have to have been his flesh and blood children, who perhaps inherited a curse or mutation from the juubi that transferred a little of the yin/yang chakra into each respective child. Or, it's also possible that he simply imbued them with yin and yang respectively, to um, get rid of it :I

I think that if they were made with creation of all things, then the story does as you say make some dramatic sense, in that yin and yang are not supposed to be separate, but are one and the same cycling forever, changing forever. That's the Daoist tradition anyways. Both sons as avatars ( sort of like minato ) for the yin and yang chakra would also fit thematically and symbolically. Part of why I feel it's more likely the later is that the emotional stakes are higher. There's countless succession stories like this where a younger son is chosen over the older son and a feud is born. The most famous in the west being Cain and Abel. Not only is the older son's way rejected, but you could even say his birthright was also taken, as the oldest is usually given first dibs. This backdrop disappears if they were artificially created at the same time. If that was the case why even call them older/younger. But, it's not like I think that legends are sooo accurate anyways. As if these technical points and accuracy would have survived in the story till now, however it is supposed to be straight from SO6P tablet.

Side note of interest: Juubi was (I assume) forcefully taken by Rikudou Sennin and they never understood one another. Then he split them into the Bijuus at the end of his life, where they became separate individuals, it's not clear they have a memory of their time as the Juubi or not. I'll assume not. So a buddha by force, not acceptance as Siddhartha versus Mara. This is how I believe Naruto will surpass Rikudou Sennin by accepting the Juubi, giving atonement.

Let us not forget the classic example of Jacob and Esau as well.
Although admittedly, the story of these two does not fit the parallel between the Elder and Younger sons of Rikudō Sennin quite as well as your proposed Cain and Abel example.
Jacob merely out-witted/tricked Esau out of his birth right; some would argue that he didn't really earn it.
Jacob did, however, earn the favor of his mother much in the same way that the Younger Son earned the favor of his father and Abel earned the favor of the Almighty Father of Creation.

In any case, if Naruto and Rikudō Sennin do meet, I have a feeling that Naruto will remind Rikudō Sennin of his Younger Son. Naruto has been known to have been compared with other characters in the past. For example, Tsunade saw a bit of her younger brother and her lover in Naruto when they first met.
 
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Gyakusetsu

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I'm a little confused, so you're saying that there are cases where humans have taught the dharma to non-humans? As I understood it, dharma transmission is the passing on of the dharma to a disciple, similar to the succession of the pope.

Then allow me to share with you the parable of the Dragon Kings daughter. Enjoy.

 
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Mikoto

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Then allow me to share with you the parable of the Dragon Kings daughter. Enjoy.


Thanks! I learned something new and it was a fun read. That clears that up ;)
 
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