Kishimoto's biggest flaw in jutsus and feats...

[KingHashirama]

I honestly think this is Kishimoto's biggest flaw when it comes to technique..... Genjutsu and its counters.


We all know people like Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama and etc are superior to Itachi/Kurenai/sukon/mizukage and other genjutsu users. However, KISHIMOTO has never given a reason as to how they can counter genjutsu.


See in one piece you have logia users.. i used to think ok so he can turn himself into smoke.. luffy is neverr gonna have a chance against him.. however oda, brought up the fact that top teir people are able to use Haki (Vice-admiral and above). So V-A and above level people can take on logia.

BUT its not like this in Naruto......Kishimoto never said "so high level of ninja have the ability t o break genjutsu depending on their will" . "Genjutsu can be broken by strong people since they have higher chakra control.." No none of it is mentioned..

Only thing given to us is this shit by Jiraiya.

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^^ So say if we go by the above.. Those with HIGH chakra control like Sakura/Tsunade can break out of it with will... Those with huge chakra pressures like Hashirama and Tobirama can break out of it with will.... BUT ITS NEVER SHOWN.. so no one can believe it..


So this again, to me is the BIGGEST flaw in kishimoto's writing regarding the techniques he made. He never provides a serious counter to some of his stuff.

 

[Angelic.]

rasengan genjutsu breaking no jutsu!

 

[Blackdeath667]

rasengan genjutsu breaking no jutsu!

that could have been a cool tech tbh

 

[KingHashirama]

rasengan genjutsu breaking no jutsu!

omg that would be a troll man. X_X

 

[Sir Cool Blizzard]

Sages like Naruto, Hashi and Kabuto can fight with there eyes closed.....there u have ur counter to genjutsu!! xd

 

[KingHashirama]

Sages like Naruto, Hashi and Kabuto can fight with there eyes closed.....there u have ur counter to genjutsu!! xd

That ain't a counter sir.. that is called avoiding it. Avoiding =/= counter when you get caught in it. A Fight can have talking. So also you are telling me, if Kurenai catches Hashirama in a genjutsu.. (Which CAN happen) he is done for? Logically, he should have a counter to when he gets caught in a genjutsu.

 

[Ansatsuken]

I honestly think this is Kishimoto's biggest flaw when it comes to technique..... Genjutsu and its counters.


We all know people like Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama and etc are superior to Itachi/Kurenai/sukon/mizukage and other genjutsu users. However, KISHIMOTO has never given a reason as to how they can counter genjutsu.


See in one piece you have logia users.. i used to think ok so he can turn himself into smoke.. luffy is neverr gonna have a chance against him.. however oda, brought up the fact that top teir people are able to use Haki (Vice-admiral and above). So V-A and above level people can take on logia.

BUT its not like this in Naruto......Kishimoto never said "so high level of ninja have the ability t o break genjutsu depending on their will" . "Genjutsu can be broken by strong people since they have higher chakra control.." No none of it is mentioned..

Only thing given to us is this shit by Jiraiya.

You must be registered for see images

^^ So say if we go by the above.. Those with HIGH chakra control like Sakura/Tsunade can break out of it with will... Those with huge chakra pressures like Hashirama and Tobirama can break out of it with will.... BUT ITS NEVER SHOWN.. so no one can believe it..


So this again, to me is the BIGGEST flaw in kishimoto's writing regarding the techniques he made. He never provides a serious counter to some of his stuff.

You are wrong. Kishi are always provide a serious counter to some of his stuff but its not from his characters but from he himself. Given any circumstances he will activate a counter of many jutsu if he find convenient to use it for the sake of the plot able to get going forward.

Thanks.

 

[KingHashirama]

You are wrong. Kishi are always provide a serious counter to some of his stuff but its not from his characters but from he himself. Given any circumstances he will activate a counter of many jutsu if he find convenient to use it for the sake of the plot able to get going forward.

Thanks.

i'll wait for the counter Kishimoto provided for genjutsu if a top teir is caught by it.. thank you. I'm sure you have it since you are claiming and supporting me.

You don't think we should know how Jiraiya and Sanin are stronger than Kurenai? I mean if they are caught in a genjutsu.. they have no counter. I sure in hell think we should know.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Hashirama has immense psychical energy which is why he can withstand genjustu though it is never stated ever that he can use genjustu better then itachi since you know he was stated to be cast people in genjustu with a flick of his finer so already your the one isn;t paying attention not kishi masking mistakes.

and there are plenty of ways to counter it look it up

genjustu narutopedia

 

[Kαmi]

I feel exactly the same. Genjutsu was just left too open and Kishi really shouldn't have let a seemingly hax ability like that happen. That statement from Jiraiya IMO is one that can be interpreted in too many ways. The way I took it, a person with a high volume of chakra and strong willpower should be able to break the genjutsu as long as the genjutsu is not too powerful against the victim. But other people don't always see it that way and honestly, I can understand why people would disagree with it. Naruto probably had more chakra than Itachi yet he couldn't beat finger genjutsu. Seems off given what we were told but Itachi's genjutsu is just that powerful apparently.

It's like he just expects us to know but I feel like that's not fair to the reader. Only the surface was touched upon in this matter

 

[KingHashirama]

Hashirama has immense psychical energy which is why he can withstand genjustu though it is never stated ever that he can use genjustu better then itachi since you know he was stated to be cast people in genjustu with a flick of his finer so already your the one isn;t paying attention not kishi masking mistakes.

and there are plenty of ways to counter it look it up

genjustu narutopedia

There are only 3 ways to counter Genjutsu, stated in the manga.

1. Disrupt your chakra flow (No one has been stated to have this power..... yet somehow this is a counter.)
2. Stop your chakra flow (Again who can do it? we don't know)
3. Have a partner <<< The most used one in VS debates in narutobase.

But we know for a fact, they aren't always gonna have a partner if they get caught in a genjutsu

I feel exactly the same. Genjutsu was just left too open and Kishi really shouldn't have let a seemingly hax ability like that happen. That statement from Jiraiya IMO is one that can be interpreted in too many ways. The way I took it, a person with a high volume of chakra and strong willpower should be able to break the genjutsu as long as the genjutsu is not too powerful against the victim. But other people don't always see it that way and honestly, I can understand why people would disagree with it. Naruto probably had more chakra than Itachi yet he couldn't beat finger genjutsu. Seems off given what we were told but Itachi's genjutsu is just that powerful apparently.

It's like he just expects us to know but I feel like that's not fair to the reader. Only the surface was touched upon in this matter

Yea exactly man.. Hashirama and many others are supposedly stronger than Itachi ( storyline wise).. yet no counter to genjutsu when being caught in it..

^^ I found this to be a cause of alot of flame wars and useless arguments in the VS section. And another reason why people can't make a proper argument against someone like Itachi/2nd Mizukage and so on.

 

[Sir Cool Blizzard]

Sages like Naruto, Hashi and Kabuto can fight with there eyes closed.....there u have ur counter to genjutsu!! xd

But prevention is better than cure, so who cares.......although I m getting what u r trying to say.....Kishi needs to show some legit feats of these characters breaking genjutsu using their chakra control!! U_U

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

Sages like Naruto, Hashi and Kabuto can fight with there eyes closed.....there u have ur counter to genjutsu!! xd

Genjutsu isn't always used with the eyes.

 

[KingHashirama]

But prevention is better than cure, so who cares.......although I m getting what u r trying to say.....Kishi needs to show some legit feats of these characters breaking genjutsu using their chakra control!! U_U

Precisely dude.. why the hell have highly skilled Taijutsu based characters, when they are utter fodders in front of genjutsu..


How can Tsunade be on a Sanin /Hokage level yet he isn't even gonna bother to explain how she can counter somoene like Kurenai. This simply leads to bs scenarios like "tsunade gg" "Kurenai gg".

This problem is also with "Speedsters". HOW DO NINJA COUNTER SPEEDSTERS.. With better reactions? how? No counter provided. In one piece you have haki to counter speedsters like Kizaru. This one leads to "__ blitz gg" " ____ blitz gg"

 

[Sir Cool Blizzard]

Genjutsu isn't always used with the eyes.

Yeah but the rest are (except the sound ones) are weak and can be easily broken just like how Shikamaru broke Kabuto's genjutsu on his own in the chunnin exams.

 

[Solo]

There are several ways of dealing with Genjutsu though.

Itachi finger genjutsu took Sakura and Granny C to break Naruto out.
Onoki broke Raikage out of Madara's genjutsu.
Sasuke/Itachi broke each other out of sound genjutsu.


Sasuke broke Orochimaru genjutsu by stabbing himself.
Kurenai broke out of a reverse genjutsu by biting her lip.
Shikamaru broke out of a sound genjutsu by breaking his finger.

Sasuke broke Jugo out of Genjutsu by telling him that it's a genjutsu.

During the Chunin Exams, several Ninjas was able to release themselves from Genjutsu the way Jiraiya explained it.

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You're wrong on this one, Dude.

 

[Sir Cool Blizzard]

There are only 3 ways to counter Genjutsu, stated in the manga.

1. Disrupt your chakra flow (No one has been stated to have this power..... yet somehow this is a counter.)
2. Stop your chakra flow (Again who can do it? we don't know)
3. Have a partner <<< The most used one in VS debates in narutobase.

But we know for a fact, they aren't always gonna have a partner if they get caught in a genjutsu


Yea exactly man.. Hashirama and many others are supposedly stronger than Itachi ( storyline wise).. yet no counter to genjutsu when being caught in it..

^^ I found this to be a cause of alot of flame wars and useless arguments in the VS section. And another reason why people can't make a proper argument against someone like Itachi/2nd Mizukage and so on.

Well Naruto has tried to break out of Itachi's genjutsu by releasing a lot of chakra at once (or chakra disruption) ,although he failed!! U_U

 

[Kαmi]

There are several ways of dealing with Genjutsu though.

Itachi finger genjutsu took Sakura and Granny C to break Naruto out.
Onoki broke Raikage out of Madara's genjutsu.
Sasuke/Itachi broke each other out of sound genjutsu.


Sasuke broke Orochimaru genjutsu by stabbing himself.
Kurenai broke out of a reverse genjutsu by biting her lip.
Shikamaru broke out of a sound genjutsu by breaking his finger.

Sasuke broke Jugo out of Genjutsu by telling him that it's a genjutsu.

During the Chunin Exams, several Ninjas was able to release themselves from Genjutsu the way Jiraiya explained it.

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You're wrong on this one, Dude.

But these are cases where either another person is there to help or an opponent is toying with their victim. If we're talking 1 v 1s where the fighters have killing intent, 3 seconds of genjutsu can easily be someone's death. People like Itachi or even MS Sasuke who can cast genjutsu by the eye seem too hax even for OP characters like Tobirama or Hashirama. Itachi and Sasuke have casted very realistic genjutsus in the past so it's not far-fetched to say it would take longer than 3 seconds for someone to notice their genjutsu.

 

[Ansatsuken]

i'll wait for the counter Kishimoto provided for genjutsu if a top teir is caught by it.. thank you. I'm sure you have it since you are claiming and supporting me.

You don't think we should know how Jiraiya and Sanin are stronger than Kurenai? I mean if they are caught in a genjutsu.. they have no counter. I sure in hell think we should know.

That's the thing, we must know how everything work, but in this manga Kishi just try to debunked his own rule for the sake of the technique able to work or else not many genjutsu will work/effect high level ninja because you just need to disrupted the chakra pathway.

Sound, visual, of any possible Genjutsu if manage to struck the opponent will not just effect the target organ but it carry the effect into chakra pathway not like telepathy were it just effect mind although in Naruto world didn't have telepath. And went most skilful chakra
controller is effect they can escape by disrupt their chakra.

That's mean to make the Genjutsu work. Kishi make even the powerful victim can't disrupt their chakra. This is Kishi we know clearly, he can't hide his style of writing this manga. It prevalent. Unless it explain like how Tobirama can't escape edo tensei because of Hashirama DNA, we can't clearly know.

Thanks.

 

[AlphaScythian]

ranting that your faves lose to genjutsu?