Kishi and the Uchiha

[Indora]

I think that Kishi nerfed the Uchiha a lot from the get go. Before people now come and spout nonsense read the entire thread.

Indra did not get the Rinnegan from his father
Although that is not that bad, because it would made the Uchiha probably too OP. However Kishi nerfed them in the sense that Uchihas cannot really get stronger through training. In order to awaken the Sharingan you need to experience a psychological shock, but what will you do when you have an Uchiha who never gives a f@ck? He won't even awaken a 1 tomoe sharingan, but lets he asume said Uchiha gives a f@ck and awakens the Sharingan and through battle experience reaches 3 tomoe what can he do to awaken MS? We all know he has to kill the person closest to him. However what if he is not able to, because he loves that person? In that case he will never be able to reach his full potential. However lets assume he kills the person and attains MS. He will get an insane power boost, but after a couple of days he goes blind. The only option is to find a compatible pair of MS. Not only are there many MS users among the Uchihas, but even if there were one cannot be sure to find the right pair of eyes.
In short an Uchiha needs other people to get stronger, because it is impossible for them to get stronger alone which is a nerf. Now I know that some people will say that the Uchihas have it easy, because all they have to do is cry to get stronge, but if you think about it I think you will realize that most people would prefer working their ass of rather than killing the person they love the most or experiencing a big emotional shock.

Also it is ironic that of all people Indra's ancestors are the ones who have to rely the most on other people to get stronger.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Kαmi]

If there was a "Idgaf" type of Uchiha, they would develop in a different way. I'm pretty sure Itachi was able to get to 3 tomoe by eight when he mastered the Sharingan. He didn't suffer too much trauma then so I think 3T Sharingan is a good tool to become a well rounded ninja.

 

[Indora]

If there was a "Idgaf" type of Uchiha, they would develop in a different way. I'm pretty sure Itachi was able to get to 3 tomoe by eight when he mastered the Sharingan. He didn't suffer too much trauma then so I think 3T Sharingan is a good tool to become a well rounded ninja.

I am not sure, but was not there a war when Itachi was a child? ( I am not sarcastic just curious). Also 3tomoe is not bad, but it is crap compared to MS and EMS

 

[BLAZE]

not really

 

[Kαmi]

I am not sure, but was not there a war when Itachi was a child? ( I am not sarcastic just curious). Also 3tomoe is not bad, but it is crap compared to MS and EMS

True on both points but Itachi had only witnessed it rather than experiencing it. I imagine the initial trauma was all it took to first awaken it but through intense training, you could progress. And it's not as good as MS and EMS but that also starts to limit a character's arsenal, with 3T alone, you have a possibility to have an extensive arsenal and be a master at genjutsu. Of course having MS and EMS is better but you can still get pretty far with just 3T. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Indora]

not really

Would you care to explain?

 

[Blackwatch]

If they were like that from the beginning, then how were they nerfed?

Regardless, the Uchiha have more OP techs than anyone bar Mokuton and Gudou Dama. Kotoamatsukami, Limbo, Chibaku/Shinra Tensei, Amatearsu, Susano'o, Kamui, Tsukuyomi, able to equip spirit weapons, Izanami, Izanagi, Bijuu sized Fire Style is your good at it, movement precognition, able to copy anything, Demonic Illusions... If you call that underpowered, what do you call the Nara Clan who can only trap you in a shadow and receive the same injury you do in said trap? Or the Inuzuka who just copy dogs? I don't quite understand.

The Uchiha can train just the same as anyone else. See Itachi and his impossible speed and how he can utilize shuriken like nobody else or the fact you can't read his hand signs for proof while we've yet to see that from any ninja bar Kakashi and Minato and Haku.

 

[Indora]

If they were like that from the beginning, then how were they nerfed?

Regardless, the Uchiha have more OP techs than anyone bar Mokuton and Gudou Dama. Kotoamatsukami, Limbo, Chibaku/Shinra Tensei, Amatearsu, Susano'o, Kamui, Tsukuyomi, able to equip spirit weapons, Izanami, Izanagi, Bijuu sized Fire Style is your good at it, movement precognition, able to copy anything, Demonic Illusions... If you call that underpowered, what do you call the Nara Clan who can only trap you in a shadow and receive the same injury you do in said trap? Or the Inuzuka who just copy dogs? I don't quite understand.

The Uchiha can train just the same as anyone else. See Itachi and his impossible speed and how he can utilize shuriken like nobody else or the fact you can't read his hand signs for proof.

@BOLD These are all MS and EMS techniques you cannot train to get these this is where the problem lies.Obviously the Uchihas are extremely powerful, but I am just saying that they would have even more very powerful people without these "ristrictions"

 

[Blackwatch]

@BOLD These are all MS and EMS techniques you cannot train to get these this is where the problem lies.Obviously the Uchihas are extremely powerful, but I am just saying that they would have even more very powerful people without these "ristrictions"

Oh, I see your line of thought.

Well, on that token, base Uchiha are still strong. The point of those restrictions is that MS and EMS were incredibly rare, recall Itachi thought he was only the second person to ever unlock it. Power inflation in general is to blame for this. The only thing Uchiha are excluded from is Perfect Sage Mode like Naruto and Hashirama, but everybody else in the top 20-30 all has a gimmick like the MS and EMS. Sasori is a living puppet, Kisame has the most overpowered sword ever, Hashirama was blessed with Mokuton, Hiruzen got lucky enough to have all 5 elements, Tobirama and Minato utilize S/T which for some reason nobody else has chosen too, Nagato got Madara's Rinnegan, etc.

Objectively, you need a gimmick to be worth anything. Straight up ninja like Asuma who train and hone themselves don't go very far as far as current strength. Base and 3T Sharingan users are still usually at least jounin level from that alone and can further themselves. Maybe not as far as OP MS tech level, but nobody without some sort of trick gets that high.

 

[Indora]

Oh, I see your line of thought.

Well, on that token, base Uchiha are still strong. The point of those restrictions is that MS and EMS were incredibly rare, recall Itachi thought he was only the second person to ever unlock it. Power inflation in general is to blame for this. The only thing Uchiha are excluded from is Perfect Sage Mode like Naruto and Hashirama, but everybody else in the top 20-30 all has a gimmick like the MS and EMS. Sasori is a living puppet, Kisame has the most overpowered sword ever, Hashirama was blessed with Mokuton, Hiruzen got lucky enough to have all 5 elements, Tobirama and Minato utilize S/T which for some reason nobody else has chosen too, Nagato got Madara's Rinnegan, etc.

Objectively, you need a gimmick to be worth anything. Straight up ninja like Asuma who train and hone themselves don't go very far as far as current strength. Base and 3T Sharingan users are still usually at least jounin level from that alone and can further themselves. Maybe not as far as OP MS tech level, but nobody without some sort of trick gets that high.

@BOLD True now that you are saying this it is true that no one except the ootsutsukis are really OP without some kind of trick or gift

 

[Sugiyama]

Oh, I see your line of thought.

Well, on that token, base Uchiha are still strong. The point of those restrictions is that MS and EMS were incredibly rare, recall Itachi thought he was only the second person to ever unlock it. Power inflation in general is to blame for this. The only thing Uchiha are excluded from is Perfect Sage Mode like Naruto and Hashirama, but everybody else in the top 20-30 all has a gimmick like the MS and EMS. Sasori is a living puppet, Kisame has the most overpowered sword ever, Hashirama was blessed with Mokuton, Hiruzen got lucky enough to have all 5 elements, Tobirama and Minato utilize S/T which for some reason nobody else has chosen too, Nagato got Madara's Rinnegan, etc.

Objectively, you need a gimmick to be worth anything. Straight up ninja like Asuma who train and hone themselves don't go very far as far as current strength. Base and 3T Sharingan users are still usually at least jounin level from that alone and can further themselves. Maybe not as far as OP MS tech level, but nobody without some sort of trick gets that high.

This pretty much.

 

[Faiznarmi]

Firstly, Indra didn't get Rinnegan simply because he's a half of his father's power, hence why Senju is said to be as equals to Uchiha.
Because their both got half of Hago's power.
And regarding the EMS, Indra definitely is born with it.
At that time he probably have kids and they both probably got MS naturally. It's simple actually, if they got married and have kids the power is simply divided into 2.
So counting that into my opinion, I can safely assume that in order for them to gain the divided powers, they'd have to experience something awful/kill someone close because mind you, the Uchiha's are all related by blood so they are unoffically 'brothers'.
And to gain an upgrade to that power, he would have to take another eyes with the same power as him (hence the EMS).
This is because the original two sons of Indra possess MS, and in order to get to Indra's power he would have to kill his brother (or just take it from them if they permits).
This kind of powerups can't be trained since Indra divided his powers into two (his sons) and both of them probably divided into two as well and establishing the Uchiha Ichizoku.
You cannot train to get back divided powers, you'll have to use other means, and that unfortunately involves killing/emotional stress.

 

[Blackdeath667]

all uchiha were trolled/nerfed at some point

shisui
itachi
sasuke
madara
izuna

even with the whole uchiha clan were trolled

they were accused wrongly and were forced to be killed because they were gonna retaliate to the accusations

 

[The Masked Sage]

Kishi forget about the copy eye Lol

 

[Blackdeath667]

Kishi forget about the copy eye Lol

i kno right


lol

wt happen to the

being able to copy almost all jutsu(minus clan or special ones)

 

[Indora]

Firstly, Indra didn't get Rinnegan simply because he's a half of his father's power, hence why Senju is said to be as equals to Uchiha.
Because their both got half of Hago's power.
And regarding the EMS, Indra definitely is born with it.
At that time he probably have kids and they both probably got MS naturally. It's simple actually, if they got married and have kids the power is simply divided into 2.
So counting that into my opinion, I can safely assume that in order for them to gain the divided powers, they'd have to experience something awful/kill someone close because mind you, the Uchiha's are all related by blood so they are unoffically 'brothers'.
And to gain an upgrade to that power, he would have to take another eyes with the same power as him (hence the EMS).
This is because the original two sons of Indra possess MS, and in order to get to Indra's power he would have to kill his brother (or just take it from them if they permits).
This kind of powerups can't be trained since Indra divided his powers into two (his sons) and both of them probably divided into two as well and establishing the Uchiha Ichizoku.
You cannot train to get back divided powers, you'll have to use other means, and that unfortunately involves killing/emotional stress.

is a nice theory, but it would be cool if Kishi would explain shit. :|

 

[Indora]

Kishi forget about the copy eye Lol

I agree. Kishi feared the Uchihas

 

[Faiznarmi]

is a nice theory, but it would be cool if Kishi would explain shit. :|

I do think that Kishi is purposely leaving that as it is, for us to understand the mechanics of EMS.
Seriously, it isn't that hard to figure.
But anyways it'd be nice if he explains this but I don't see which part of the story would it fits unless it's that time when Itachi explains the mechanics of MS in Naka Shrine during their battle.

 

[Indora]

I do think that Kishi is purposely leaving that as it is, for us to understand the mechanics of EMS.
Seriously, it isn't that hard to figure.
But anyways it'd be nice if he explains this but I don't see which part of the story would it fits unless it's that time when Itachi explains the mechanics of MS in Naka Shrine during their battle.

It is true that it is not complicated, but the thing is. In the end of the day it is just a theory. There can be multiple theories on that and since the author did not say what is actually true one can never be 100 per cent true.
Kishi could have shown the conversation between Hagoromo and Sasuke and explain it there

 

[Nelmanaly]

Kishi-sensei when made the uchiha didn't want hype but then Madara put him in Tsukuyomi