I don't see it countering CT either, regardless of if its rock or water it works as a suitable prison with the gravity keeping it in place, he can't turn the whole thing into liquid only the things he can touch, and he can't reach far enough to actually generate any space to move even if he does fuse...
I don't think you understand that if he's touching the rocks/earth around him he won't be able to move the force of CT is too strong for any human or fish to move once they reach close proximity of the orb.
How does it counter him going upwards to use CST? Kisame is actually slower underground..... Deva ST's any blitz attempt to stop him from levitating, and he can cause enough force to disturb the water dome even without CST, as he was casually knocking back boss summons.
First bold: Itachi literally discredits this, saying that you don't need to move to launch an attack on Chibaku Tensei - The jutsu will pull it towards the center. Kisame just needs to fuse and use this technique and he'll eventually get to it and absorb it.
Second bold: Mfws the jutsu states high speed movement as if swimming through the earth. Mfws Some of Kisame's best speed feats are in water.
First bold: Itachi literally discredits this, saying that you don't need to move to launch an attack on Chibaku Tensei - The jutsu will pull it towards the center. Kisame just needs to fuse and use this technique and he'll eventually get to it and absorb it.
Second bold: Mfws the jutsu states high speed movement as if swimming through the earth. Mfws Some of Kisame's best speed feats are in water.
I don't think you're understanding the technicalities to Kisame's jutsu. The earth around the user is turned into a liquid state as the jutsu is up. If more rocks come near Kisame, they are turned into a liquid state. It's that simple. And chunk of rock near Kisame is nullified with this, as he proceeds to fuse with Samehada and absorb CT's core.
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OT: Bansho Tenin man, that shite is dangerous. I wanna say Kisame though.
I don't see it countering CT either, regardless of if its rock or water it works as a suitable prison with the gravity keeping it in place, he can't turn the whole thing into liquid only the things he can touch, and he can't reach far enough to actually generate any space to move even if he does fuse...
I don't think you understand that if he's touching the rocks/earth around him he won't be able to move the force of CT is too strong for any human or fish to move once they reach close proximity of the orb.
How does it counter him going upwards to use CST? Kisame is actually slower underground..... Deva ST's any blitz attempt to stop him from levitating, and he can cause enough force to disturb the water dome even without CST, as he was casually knocking back boss summons.
OK I see what you are saying. The continuous gravity would prevent him from moving around with subterranean voyage. But wouldn't that end up making it a battle of attrition which Kisame cannot lose since CT is not being maintained for a few minutes? He only needs to make a space around him via subterranean voyage and then make a pool of water inside where he can breathe (fuses with Samehada).
And if he goes 20 meters underground then he's obviously countering CST. IC Kisame won't do that though. And lol, Kisame using 1000 sharks is more then a sufficient counter, using ST blows away a small portion of it and other sharks will take the space made by the ST. And again, CST and ST will NOT happen from the beginning. Please counter this strategy;
1. Kisame makes 3 Mizu Bunshin's.
2. Kisame goes underground via subterranean voyage.
3. The 3 Mizu Bunshin's generate enough chakra to create a Water Shockwave and come at Pain.
4. Kisame is 5 meters behind them with subterranean voyage.
5. Pain uses Shinra Tensei and the clones die and the water disperses.
6. The real Kisame shows up at Deva's feat and smashes him with his brute strength while ST is on CD.
I'm not positive if Kisame could kill Deva with a punch, but it also puts Kisame in range for a black rod stabbing. Though, I was more inclined to believe Deva would first separate the sword from the wielder, then use it again on Kisame.
I'm not positive if Kisame could kill Deva with a punch, but it also puts Kisame in range for a black rod stabbing. Though, I was more inclined to believe Deva would first separate the sword from the wielder, then use it again on Kisame.
]. Is there anything preventing Kisame from forming a Mizu Bunshin mid-air since Kakashi could throw his chain while under BT? In that way once the Mizu Bunshin is close enough he just needs to turn into a water prison and the real Kisame summons several sharks to eat him while Deva is patiently awaiting for the 5 second cool down to finish.
]. Is there anything preventing Kisame from forming a Mizu Bunshin mid-air since Kakashi could throw his chain while under BT? In that way once the Mizu Bunshin is close enough he just needs to turn into a water prison and the real Kisame summons several sharks to eat him while Deva is patiently awaiting for the 5 second cool down to finish.
He's strong, but still. Gai didn't seem like he was life or death phased from it. And, I think that may or may not take more then five seconds for him to pull all of that off. Not to mention Pein can move back and further away if he sees a trap being made. He probably does win if he can keep Samehada on him, his swing with that would cut Pein in two.
He's strong, but still. Gai didn't seem like he was life or death phased from it. And, I think that may or may not take more then five seconds for him to pull all of that off. Not to mention Pein can move back and further away if he sees a trap being made. He probably does win if he can keep Samehada on him, his swing with that would cut Pein in two.
That's because he was 30% strength there, but I'm not arguing for 30% Kisame. Triple that strength and you'll immediately realise Kisame's punch can one shot him if it did that to Gai who had water right beneath him. His sword can probably do more then that too, and it'd have a huge range advantage over the chakra rod. I don't believe that's possible, it's been portrayed multiple times that the user attracts everything to himself (the centre) [
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], so regardless of where he goes he's the thing that Kisame will end up at. And anyways, when Kakashi made the trap it seemed like Deva couldn't care less, so I'm not sure he'll care any more here.
I don't think you're understanding the technicalities to Kisame's jutsu. The earth around the user is turned into a liquid state as the jutsu is up. If more rocks come near Kisame, they are turned into a liquid state. It's that simple. And chunk of rock near Kisame is nullified with this, as he proceeds to fuse with Samehada and absorb CT's core.
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OT: Bansho Tenin man, that shite is dangerous. I wanna say Kisame though.
He'll be surrounded by rocks, the rocks coming at the CT are not phasing through the external rocks and somehow hitting Kisame within. They are pulled towards the core but they stop at the furthest rock layer from it, so Kisame is unaffected.
No. If he make the rocks liquid he's making the rocks easier to displace. Meaning if he makes some rocks liquid and keep the rocks on top of him hard, the hard rocks will press the liquid rock, and will press him to death.
OK I see what you are saying. The continuous gravity would prevent him from moving around with subterranean voyage. But wouldn't that end up making it a battle of attrition which Kisame cannot lose since CT is not being maintained for a few minutes? He only needs to make a space around him via subterranean voyage and then make a pool of water inside where he can breathe (fuses with Samehada).
It would pull Kisame closer and closer to the orb so I can see how he'd counter it.
And if he goes 20 meters underground then he's obviously countering CST. IC Kisame won't do that though. And lol, Kisame using 1000 sharks is more then a sufficient counter, using ST blows away a small portion of it and other sharks will take the space made by the ST. And again, CST and ST will NOT happen from the beginning. Please counter this strategy;
1. Kisame makes 3 Mizu Bunshin's.
2. Kisame goes underground via subterranean voyage.
3. The 3 Mizu Bunshin's generate enough chakra to create a Water Shockwave and come at Pain.
4. Kisame is 5 meters behind them with subterranean voyage.
5. Pain uses Shinra Tensei and the clones die and the water disperses.
6. The real Kisame shows up at Deva's feat and smashes him with his brute strength while ST is on CD.
Its a pile of sharks blow out a good portion and they all fall down, don't see how that is countering anything.
How can he be behind the water clones underground if they create a lake/river battle field pushing pain higher and away from Kisame, again he can see chakra so its not surprising him regardless.
Its a pile of sharks blow out a good portion and they all fall down, don't see how that is countering anything.
How can he be behind the water clones underground if they create a lake/river battle field pushing pain higher and away from Kisame, again he can see chakra so its not surprising him regardless.
No, Kisame has complete control over the sharks, he's the one making there every move. Pain's ST cannot blow away a large portion of it, it has no such AOE, or at least, no such AOE ever shown barring CST.
You didn't understand. The real Kisame would be unaffected by the water above him seeing how he's underground. Pain won't be pushed away because he would use Shinra Tensei to smash away the entire water mass they created. But at that moment the real Kisame would come out of the ground and smash Deva with his sheer strength/Samehada while Deva is on 5 second CD. It's not supposed to surprise him, if Deva doesn't do anything about the Water Shockwave he gets crushed, if he blows it away the real Kisame slams him.
No, Kisame has complete control over the sharks, he's the one making there every move. Pain's ST cannot blow away a large portion of it, it has no such AOE, or at least, no such AOE ever shown barring CST.
You didn't understand. The real Kisame would be unaffected by the water above him seeing how he's underground. Pain won't be pushed away because he would use Shinra Tensei to smash away the entire water mass they created. But at that moment the real Kisame would come out of the ground and smash Deva with his sheer strength/Samehada while Deva is on 5 second CD. It's not supposed to surprise him, if Deva doesn't do anything about the Water Shockwave he gets crushed, if he blows it away the real Kisame slams him.
Why would he do that he can float above the water fine, or just fight with it on perfect terms it doesn't hinder him at all.
And no Kisame controlling it doesn't mean anything if it physically can not sustain itself anymore, Pain's shown good AOE with ST, Hell he could just use CST right then and there and regardless of where Kisame is it would flatten him.
