Kisame vs MS Sasuke

Forbidden Technique

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Bee says it can't handle the heat, which can be interpreted as she couldn't handle the rest of the fire. It being outside of its absorption range is speculation, and Samehada being capable of absorbing flames even hotter then that is no limits fallacy.
It's not speculation. You're suggesting to me that Samehada can absorb things (up to 6 tails of Biju chakra at once) from a greater distance then the red box:

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Manga disagrees [ ]. Literally every time Samehada absorbs something, it had to be within a relatively close range. What you're saying is, Samehada can absorb things from a 20+ meter radius, which is completely unsupported by the manga. The fact is, Samehada handled everything within it's absorption range.


Bee's statement only doesn't hold weight in your own interpretation of what happened, meaning you're looking at what happened differently then Kishi intended. One can suggest such because Bee outright states it can't handle the heat, a temperature far beneath Amaterasu.
That's fine, but your interpretation contradicts the manga, because the statement made contradicts what happened (aka what Kishi showed us). What holds more weight to you? A statement? Or what actually occured? Both were drawn/written from Kishi, so that's not an argument. I think I'll take what actually occured as fact, rather then something that was merely said from a relatively unintelligent character.

Bee only said that because Samehada showed dissatisfaction after it absorbed the Katon. If it never thumped him, Bee wouldn't of said anything. How can we take that statement over what was shown to us, is beyond me.
 
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TheAncientCenturion

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You're twisting it to fit your own interpretation. Bee said it wasn't able to handle the heat after it absorbed a portion of the jutsu, meaning absorbing more of it wasn't possible because it couldn't handle it. That's all there is to it. The amount it absorbed at that moment is her limit.
Not twisting a thing, Samehada sweeped the Katon without any hindrance or hint at trouble, bar what can even be taken as comical discomfort at Bee. Yet suddenly it's all Samehada can do, despite it absorbing larger quantities of chakra in the same or less amounts of time. Despite Kisame can force Samehada to do what he wants. Can't say I subscribe to your school of thought, here.

I don't need a synopsis of the size. The size of it is irrelevant because the amount that was absorbed is the maximum amount of heat Samehada can absorb. Any more would be no limits fallacy and going against Bee's own statement.
Lel what? It could also imply:

  1. Samehada's largest range for absorption.
  2. The necessary amounts Samehada needed to absorb.
It's already canon, Samehada doesn't like the heat. Why would it absorb MORE chakra than it has to, of something it doesn't like/isn't worth the trouble? Saying it's the most it can absorb, despite there being two atleast other possibilities is trying to sweep some dirt under the rug.

Again, size is irrelevant so I don't see where you're going with this. The heat it absorbed is the maximum amount it can as implied by Bee himself. You not agreeing because you are interpreting the manga differently is not my problem, you can deal with Kishi if you like. And nah, it was ***********.
What I'm showing you is that what Samehada absorbed is a massive katon, without any signs of damage, but only discomfort. I don't like lifting a half keg, but I can sure as Hell do it. Same situation, essentially. What you're doing is taking the situation and going to the extreme with it. Samehada took a large swath of it in, it doesn't like the heat, it hits Bee. There's no lapse in time or slowed absorption rate for Samehada, a massive chunk's taken out immediately, it complains. If that was Samehada's limits, you'd think we would have had any sort of implication of such rather than it just bitchin'.

Let's get the VIZ, it probably won't say much different, but ***********'s known for Americanizing, for a lack of better terms, what's being said. To try and make it flow better. The Mangareader version, largley used by Mangafreak, Mangapanda, and Narutobase, all have Bee just asking if it's too hot. Which could elude to something else entirely, as previously touched upon.

It made Sasuke's body melt instantly, it took out the fire toad's stomach instantly, etc. Samehada would be no exception if Ama is fired at it. And Daikodan is not being used in time, lol.
The toad stomach is an obvious outlier, as Amaterasu has never performed near as well as it did there ever again. Bringing that up is akin to Goku being light speed during the World Martial Arts tournament, or that Kami's Look out is above the moon (Based off of the fact Goku had trouble breathing on it, yet when he took the Rabbit Gang to the Moon, normal humans were able to mine without any physical strain). Lel, Sasuke's skin? Oral Rebirth is a shedding/Regeneration technique, what is being left behind isn't the entirety of Sasuke and likely just a husk of skin. Which entirely adds up with 97% of all of Amaterasu's burning feats.

So wait; Despite the short hand seals needed for Daikodan, and Kisame's quick handseal speed, he can't use Daikodan to save Samehada from a technique not typically known for burning substances at an awe inspiring rate? Well. . Okay then? I mean, Kisame can/will, but what's stopping him from fusing with Samehada, at the end of the day? His pain tolerance is near god like, Amaterasu won't even register on him. Regardless of the methods used, Amaterasu is countered in the battle.
GG.
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Just got the VIZ - Make of it whatcha want.

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Beans2

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It's not speculation. You're suggesting to me that Samehada can absorb things (up to 6 tails of Biju chakra at once) from a greater distance then the red box:

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Manga disagrees [ ]. Literally every time Samehada absorbs something, it had to be within a relatively close range. What you're saying is, Samehada can absorb things from a 20+ meter radius, which is completely unsupported by the manga. The fact is, Samehada handled everything within it's absorption range.




That's fine, but your interpretation contradicts the manga, because the statement made contradicts what happened (aka what Kishi showed us). What holds more weight to you? A statement? Or what actually occured? Both were drawn/written from Kishi, so that's not an argument. I think I'll take what actually occured as fact, rather then something that was merely said from a relatively unintelligent character.

Bee only said that because Samehada showed dissatisfaction after it absorbed the Katon. If it never thumped him, Bee wouldn't of said anything. How can we take that statement over what was shown to us, is beyond me.
Bruh Apex said that not me. Fix your quotes
 

Beans2

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But he wouldn't be aware of Susano'o arrows and Kirin though. Without any prior intel, Kakashi was put in a position where he had to use Kamui in order to save himself from the arrows... Kisame has nothing in his arsenal even remotely close to as fast as Kamui. Also, with no intel on Kirin, Sasuke has a much better chance at prepping and pullin it off. He could take to the skies with his hawk summon and fire Katon/Amaterasu all the while Kisame would have no idea what would be going on. Once it's prepped, Kisame would more then likely mistaken it to be a chakra based attack, just like he did with Hirudora, and get obliterated. With full intel, there is literally zero chance of this happening.

If Susano'o is already active, then it's arrows will always outspeed Kisame's execution of GSB and WD. So I see full intel favoring Kisame more then Sasuke, solidifying him the win.
i'll admit. Having full intel definitely helps kisame, i just feel like it helps sasuke a little more.

-even without intel, kisame can see the susanoo arrow being formed, then swing Samehada to absorb it before contact is made like how samehada absorbed itachi's katon prior to contact. Kisame has some pretty good reaction feats, not sure if they're good enough to complete a samehada swing before the arrow hits. If this is happening underwater, fluid resistance could slow down the susanoo arrow enabling kisame to react? If Sasuke fires two arrows at once, then Kisame has a problem....though Kisame only has to see Susanoo arrow in action once, then every time after that he can counter with GSB (which can be prepped and executed as fast as hirudora.)

-Kirin. It's dependant on heat being released into the sky. However with water dome on the battlefield, the water will cool down the atmosphere above it...reason why hurricanes only form above warm water oceans. Sharks tend to inhabit cooler waters and kisame's sharks have swam in both his suiton and the ocean, so i think it's fair to say water dome has colder water. If sasuke sets a piece of forest on fire with Amaterasu, Kisame simply moves the dome to cover it so the heat isn't released into the atmosphere.

Also, being airborne doesn't guarantee Sasuke safety. Kisame's water sharks when encased in a globe of water can traverse great distances, extremely quickly, without making contact with a body of water or land. imagine 1000 sharks all attacking Sasuke's hawk at once, Kisame doesn't need full intel to use this strategy. I think the sharks would eventually bite the hawk's vitals or through its wings, causing Sasuke to fall to his doom below where a hungry kisame awaits him.

On the other hand, without intel on water dome, Sasuke wouldn't even be able to summon his hawk in the first place. Kisame would use the water dome, and Sasuke gets caught up in the suiton's aoe before he can take to the skies.

Didn't mean to make a text wall, just got carried away.
 

EZQ

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It's not speculation. You're suggesting to me that Samehada can absorb things (up to 6 tails of Biju chakra at once) from a greater distance then the red box:

You must be registered for see images


Manga disagrees [ ]. Literally every time Samehada absorbs something, it had to be within a relatively close range. What you're saying is, Samehada can absorb things from a 20+ meter radius, which is completely unsupported by the manga. The fact is, Samehada handled everything within it's absorption range.




That's fine, but your interpretation contradicts the manga, because the statement made contradicts what happened (aka what Kishi showed us). What holds more weight to you? A statement? Or what actually occured? Both were drawn/written from Kishi, so that's not an argument. I think I'll take what actually occured as fact, rather then something that was merely said from a relatively unintelligent character.

Bee only said that because Samehada showed dissatisfaction after it absorbed the Katon. If it never thumped him, Bee wouldn't of said anything. How can we take that statement over what was shown to us, is beyond me.
I agree with this guy

lmao the quotes are wrong this was for apex, not for beans
 
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Zexion~

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Again...Kisame's mastery of the sword allows him to force it into absorbing as much heat as it wants without any reprocussion, just like he was taking Bee's chakra against samehada's will.
 

DrProof

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I mean this is a cool discussion, and all. But we all know who the real OG is.

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DrProof

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This ain't 2013, the Kakuzu exploiters all changed allegiances to the BMA. Keep up with the times.
Sell outs.
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That's that shit I don't like.

Kisame is Kakuzu's ******. Kakuzu be all like:

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@ Kisame
 

TheAncientCenturion

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Sell outs.
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That's that shit I don't like.

Kisame is Kakuzu's ******. Kakuzu be all like:

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@ Kisame
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We talking about this guy, right? The guy who couldn't even beat a few chuunin? Smh, go back to the mental war, Doc. Do us all a favor.
 

DrProof

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We talking about this guy, right? The guy who couldn't even beat a few chuunin? Smh, go back to the mental war, Doc. Do us all a favor.
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Bruh ate himself (pause) because he didn't want to take that L, but in doing that gave himself an even bigger L.
 

EZQ

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We talking about this guy, right? The guy who couldn't even beat a few chuunin? Smh, go back to the mental war, Doc. Do us all a favor.
Yo no need for that assault against Kakuzu. Choji is by far above jonnin level on the war arc, and Kakuzu was outnumbered.
There's no need for chosing between black and white, there's also grey. The story of humanity shows that because of that way of thinking death comes.
Kakuzu and Kisame are both great. Kisame is stronger sure, but does he have Kakuzu's money? Hell no, Kakuzu is NV's pimp.
 

TheAncientCenturion

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Bruh ate himself (pause) because he didn't want to take that L, but in doing that gave himself an even bigger L.
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We gonna make fun of the man who shit kicked a perfect jin? Kakuzu couldn't handle an amateur. Legit can't deal with Kakashi alone, how'd this clown get in Akatsuki anyways?
Yo no need for that assault against Kakuzu. Choji is by far above jonnin level on the war arc, and Kakuzu was outnumbered.
There's no need for chosing between black and white, there's also grey. The story of humanity shows that because of that way of thinking death comes.
Kakuzu and Kisame are both great. Kisame is stronger sure, but does he have Kakuzu's money? Hell no, Kakuzu is NV's pimp.
Sure, Kakuzu can be a pimp. Kisame's the damn kingpin.
 

DrProof

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We gonna make fun of the man who shit kicked a perfect jin? Kakuzu couldn't handle an amateur. Legit can't deal with Kakashi alone, how'd this clown get in Akatsuki anyways?
Kakuzu was handling Kakashi, Ino, & Choji @ the same damn time fool. Kakashi, and Gai were stated to be equals, so reverse this scenario:

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Look @ the little shark bitch taking that L. That would be Kakuzu vs Kisame. Except Kakuzu would be tentacle raping sharkbait.

Lmfao look at this dude, he got f*cked up by Yamato :lmao: Lookin like a little submissive b**ch.

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Kakuzu stay winning.

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