Kisame vs MS Sasuke
- Thread starter Manda II
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Uh, no. What Bee states is what Kishi wants us to believe. Kishi's word>your interpretation of a drawing. You are only assuming that he could absorb more then he did. But according to Bee that was the limit, hence him saying Samehada can't handle it. By thinking it was the limit we avoid contradiction with what Bee stated, by thinking otherwise you are purposefully creating canonical contradiction to fit your own argument (wrong way of debating).
More chakra used=more fire. That's not the case with Amaterasu, where regardless of amount of chakra used, the only difference is heat. My point was Amaterasu uses more chakra then a 20 meter Katon, despite it only being half a meter in size. That would mean its far hotter because the heat is concentrated into that one small flame rather then spread out into the huge fire ball.
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Lord Tywin
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TheAncientCenturion
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We've all been through this many times before. With full Intel, Sasuke has a significantly better chance. We can expect more genjutsu plays from him, coupled with making use of Susano'o Arrow's. I didn't read the stipulations thoroughly, but did it say he had Aoda? Regardless, Sasuke's best chance of victory is using Susano'o arrows, likely coupled with large scale snakes to help him move quicker, clear a distance, which gives Kisame significantly less time to react with a Daikodan.
I'd still favor Kisame, just due to the large gap the OP put between them and my own personal bias. It gives Kisame more room and time to work with, when it comes to setting up suiton.
Don't see why Kisame is uncapable of forcing Samehada to do what he wants, and absorb the Amaterasu. Sure, Samehada doesn't seem to like ninjutsu that's extremely hot. But what she wants is no concern to Kisame, who will force her to do what he wants. Nor would any grand damage be dealt in the time that Amaterasu is cast, to when Kisame can either use a miniature Daikodan on the sword/himself, or fuse with it and fully absorb the Amaterasu.
I'd still favor Kisame, just due to the large gap the OP put between them and my own personal bias. It gives Kisame more room and time to work with, when it comes to setting up suiton.
Don't see why Kisame is uncapable of forcing Samehada to do what he wants, and absorb the Amaterasu. Sure, Samehada doesn't seem to like ninjutsu that's extremely hot. But what she wants is no concern to Kisame, who will force her to do what he wants. Nor would any grand damage be dealt in the time that Amaterasu is cast, to when Kisame can either use a miniature Daikodan on the sword/himself, or fuse with it and fully absorb the Amaterasu.
You're the third person to say that Samehada simply doesn't like heat. Bee stated it can't handle it though, which is very different. More heat wouldn't be possible whether Kisame wants her to absorb it or not. Samehada either dies or stops absorbing the rest.
Please quote me being a straw man in this thread.
I don't see it absorbing the Lava at all. Makes more sense since Kisame said he had lots of trouble dealing with Roshi's elemental attacks (lava/katon) [
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] which wouldn't have been the case had he been able to absorb them no diff like people are suggesting. Lava heat>>>Katon heat.
TheAncientCenturion
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Samehada absorbed a ridiculous amount of the katon for it to be unable to handle the heat [
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]. Samehada ate enough of the jutsu for both Naruto and Bee to be safe when it game to width, but the length it took was unreal. Samehada and Bee are roughly the same length, and Samehada easily ate several times it's length alone. If it wasn't able to handle the heat, it wouldn't of been able to absorb THAT much. Factor in Amaterasu has been what, only ever proportionally sized to the target? I don't see why she wouldn't be able to eat it or Kisame can't force her too. Giving you a better idea of the scale of the jutsu here.
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We see that the Katon, in pure length, is seven times longer than Samehada, which is an arm longer than Bee. Same method, just copied the layers over. With the girth of the jutsu being what, three times Samehada's height? Let's just scale it down and say that Bee and Samehada (where she was held at,) are the same height. Bee is 6.2 feet or 1.9 meters tall, according to the DB/Wikia. Meaning that the total length of Itachi's jutsu is roughly (legitimately smaller,) is 43.4 feet long or thirteen meters long. Samehada absorbs this, and then itself three times over in the width of the jutsu. Yet. . It can't handle the heat, and katon's are too much for it. Was it a VIZ scan that was shown, btw? Just wondering.
Amaterasu ending Samehada's existence quickly is not happening. It's never burned an entity of Samehada's size that badly, in seconds (Which is all it'll take for Kisame to command/Daikodan/Fuse with the sword).
Ghost in the Shell
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Forbidden Technique
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But he wouldn't be aware of Susano'o arrows and Kirin though. Without any prior intel, Kakashi was put in a position where he had to use Kamui in order to save himself from the arrows... Kisame has nothing in his arsenal even remotely close to as fast as Kamui. Also, with no intel on Kirin, Sasuke has a much better chance at prepping and pullin it off. He could take to the skies with his hawk summon and fire Katon/Amaterasu all the while Kisame would have no idea what would be going on. Once it's prepped, Kisame would more then likely mistaken it to be a chakra based attack, just like he did with Hirudora, and get obliterated. With full intel, there is literally zero chance of this happening.
If Susano'o is already active, then it's arrows will always outspeed Kisame's execution of GSB and WD. So I see full intel favoring Kisame more then Sasuke, solidifying him the win.
A fodder snake isn't out-swimming Kisamehada underwater, nor is it saving Sasuke from shark summons. Only way his hawk is evading it, is if WD is used from long distance. Within a relatively close distance, it completely swallowed up V1 Bee before he could do anything. MS Sasuke is inferior to MS Itachi in every category, with the exception of maybe stamina. Kisame has everything in his arsenal to deal with Sasuke. You probably prefer Hebi Sasuke because of Manda, smh.
>Bee say's Samehada can't handle the heat
>Samehada handles it
....? I fail to see your point. It handled everything it could possibly handle within it's range, so Bee's statement doesn't hold much weight. It took zero damage, and only thumped Bee in head to notify him he had a distaste for it's chakra. I don't see how one could possibly reach for the claim that Samehada would die from absorbing something hotter.
The rain indicates that? Wat? If he could counter all the ninjutsu that was being thrown at him with just his Samehada being in place, then this match would be not even close to hard. And if Kisame went through the troubles of using his Suiton to block the Lava (some Suiton would evaporate) instead of having Samehada absorb it without losing any chakra, then it means Samehada can't absorb it since Kisame would be more likely to use it then his own chakra.
Suggesting Samehada can absorb more heat then it's shown to absorb is an example of no limits fallacy. He is correct.
And why is that? When Samehada already has shown having trouble with a fire based attack.
Burden of proof would be on you to show it can handle an attack on a similar level because a lower level attack gave it trouble.
People are confusing the size of the attack with potency. Amaterasu is several times hotter and infinitely times harder to take out. Now if Samehada casually absorbed the fire with no signs of discomfort, some of you might have an argument.
Mad Titan Thanos
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You're twisting it to fit your own interpretation. Bee said it wasn't able to handle the heat after it absorbed a portion of the jutsu, meaning absorbing more of it wasn't possible because it couldn't handle it. That's all there is to it. The amount it absorbed at that moment is her limit.
I don't need a synopsis of the size. The size of it is irrelevant because the amount that was absorbed is the maximum amount of heat Samehada can absorb. Any more would be no limits fallacy and going against Bee's own statement.
Again, size is irrelevant so I don't see where you're going with this. The heat it absorbed is the maximum amount it can as implied by Bee himself. You not agreeing because you are interpreting the manga differently is not my problem, you can deal with Kishi if you like. And nah, it was ***********.
It made Sasuke's body melt instantly, it took out the fire toad's stomach instantly, etc. Samehada would be no exception if Ama is fired at it. And Daikodan is not being used in time, lol.
Bee says it can't handle the heat, which can be interpreted as she couldn't handle the rest of the fire. It being outside of its absorption range is speculation, and Samehada being capable of absorbing flames even hotter then that is no limits fallacy. Bee's statement only doesn't hold weight in your own interpretation of what happened, meaning you're looking at what happened differently then Kishi intended. One can suggest such because Bee outright states it can't handle the heat, a temperature far beneath Amaterasu.