Kisame vs Itachi

[Beans2]

Sure, but 10% Kisame is still physically inferior to the original, who possesses the full strength. They're worthless to mention, and just making them doesn't confuse Itachi. If he's incapable of any quick movement to hide the original in the mass of clones, I don't see why Itachi can't just target the real one.

Rise my fellow Kisame fan, deep inside your heart you know he cannot lose this.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Sick Itachi would take it High Diff. Healthy and Edo knock the diff a notch each time.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Itachi med difficulty at best.​

 

[Apêx1]

Not as easy as you're saying. Not nearly as easy as you're saying. First off it was never implied that Itachi had intel on GSB. "Large scale ninjutsu" doesn't cut it because that doesn't guarantee that Itachi will try to dodge instead of attempt to tank it.

Second, this is taking place underwater since there's literally nothing Itachi can do to prevent himself getting caught in water dome, or evade its aoe. If he tries to "replace himself" with a crow clone, that means for this strategy to work the real Itachi has to swim out of GSB's

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. Something he's simply not fast enough to do. Otherwise the shark missile just devours both Itachi and his clone.

Yes.

Please quote me saying he had intel on GSB. I said given he knows Kisame uses large scale Ninjutsu he'll replace himself with an exploding clone (not crow clone, seems more effective to use the exploding one) as a precaution. Itachi won't attempt to tank it, we already know Itachi conserves chakra in any way possible to prevent his eye sight from deteriorating. There's literally no chance Itachi will use Susano for regular ninjutsu when he's shown to use Bunshin feints as his favourite strategy.

I would like to note that as Kisame is generating the large amounts of water Itachi's exploding clone has the potential to use the water bullets to pretty much one shots Kisame if he doesn't stop the WD's formation to protect himself in some way. Doing this will alert the real Itachi about the incoming jutsu. Another strategy Itachi can utilise before the Water is even spat out is this [

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], which Kisame has no intel on. Kisame can be placed into Genjutsu without trouble via crows, and the fight would be finished then and there as he proceeds to Totsuka blitz him. And lol, Daikodan is not being used while WD is up. WD popped from excessive ink which prevented his ability to manipulate the WD. Daikodan does the same, no way will he be able to use Daikodan while using WD at the same time. Moreover, Kisame fuses while in WD. He can't do the 2-3 hand seals required with his webbed hands, so he'd need to release the fusion and become prone to Itachi's Suiton bullets. In the case Daikodan is still released, the WD would disappear and Yata Mirror can be put up in order to deflect it before it can absorb anything from the Susano. Totsuka also has the capacity to cut it up without any trouble with a swipe. Daikodan only absorbs what it consumed, so swiping the Totsuka from left to right, or right to left will have the Daikodan killed.

Samehada can sense chakra.

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Sensors can sense chakra flow to tell if someone else has their chakras disturbed.

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Samehada only needs to

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Kisame, and the pain will

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.

Uh no, Samehada is not a sensor, it's a quasi sensor. It can only detect people with large chakra quantities due to its desire for their chakra, but it's not an actual sensor who can sense chakra flow. That claim will never be proven regardless of how many people want to believe it. Kisame's sensory capabilities once he fuses with it isn't going to be applies to Samehada, Kisame while fused can absorb the entire v2 cloak while Samehada can only absorb 6 tails worth of chakra. Everything he does is NOT everything Samehada can do. Anyways, not all sensors are capable of checking chakra flow either. Karin is probably the best sensor in the manga. Saying because she can do it other sensors can is completely fallacious. So even Kisame while fused doesn't get this feat, because Karin's sensing>>>Kisame's. So Samehada is not pricking anybody here.

Don't see how any genjutsu would end Kisame, when only Tsukuyomi does mental damage to the person caught. Any other genjutsu just paralyzes him, and Kisame breaks out by disturbing his chakra flow, inflicting pain on himself, or Samehada does either of those for him. I mean, I guess he can bite off his tongue if he really needs to.

Nope, all Genjutsu can do mental damage depending on intent [

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][

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]. Using Genjutsu like this one can force Kisame to throw away Samehada, or give enough time for Itachi to one shot him with kunai to the neck gg. Sasuke thought he one shotted Bee after he put him into Genjutsu, hence he turned around, but that was only because he didn't know about the link between perfect Jin and Biju. That would give indication that chakra amount is irrelevant when he thought he one shotted a v1 cloaked Bee. There are other cases of Genjutsu literally on shotting someone. Tsukiyomi can kill with a single usage. But if Kisame is within vulnerability of MS Genjutsu, then Tsukiyomi is obviously the better option. Biting his tongue? Lol, that doesn't work against high level Genjutsu, never has never will. Otherwise Hebi Sasuke would've done it before he was placed into 3 Genjutsu, Chiyo would've stated it was a possible counter to the Sharingan, etc. Pain infliction is not a viable method of breaking out, and disturbing his own chakra flow is only viable against normal Genjutsu, but if Kisame looks into Itachi's eyes he's being placed into Tsukiyomi and the fight is done then and there. Let's not forget Kisame is almost pain immune, he has one of the highest pain tolerances in the manga, and in this case it works against him.

1. This is Kisame's vision we're talking about, not Itachi's. If Kisame's vision is impaired by both the water and the partial opacity of Susanoo, and he has intel on genjutsu, and he can just look at Susanoo instead of Itachi's eyes, and he doesn't need eyesight at all in the first place, how the hell is he making eye contact?

2. How is Itachi getting Kisame in a five meter range?

30% Kisame already managed to evade an explosion of similar size [

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]. Kisame also tanks exploding bunshin with zero difficulty. Exploding clones were never shown to pack much power, and he has Samehada to heal him from whatever damage he may take.

Ok, he doesn't (I'll think this over later, but concede for now), Totsuka still smashes him.

Sure. What I mean is Susanoo is semitransparent. Itachi's eyes are behind Susanoo. That means it's easier for Kisame to avoid eye contact since from a distance, with water obscuring his vision as well as Susanoo. Kisame would actually have to try to look for Itachi's eyes to make eye contact. It's much easier for him to look at Susanoo as a whole and focus on that, than to look specifically at Itachi.



Kisame is not getting stabbed by Totsuka, because he can stay out of its range. He wouldn't choose the risky strategy of going up to Susanoo and absorbing it. Not when he can do some from a distance with GSB, or just outlast V4 Susanoo.

Ok.

Totsuka can extent at Itachi's will, staying out of its range will prove to be a difficult task. Furthermore, with no intel on it Kisame will think he can absorb it when he will actually end up getting sealed by it. And v3 Susano or v4 susano are only being used if Kisame gets within Totsuka range or GSB is fired. Otherwise he's not using Susano.

Kisame already fought perfectly well with no vision

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, so that kills your point. His reactions and stuff would be slowed down sure, but winning this battle for Kisame is as simple as sitting in water dome and waiting for V4/V3 Susanoo to come down so he can one shot with GSB. Or he just outlasts period and Itachi drowns.

Remind me where he's shown fighting there, unless I'm missing something. And as I suggested at the start, Suiton bullets prevent WD from being used, exploding clone smashes Kisame if he ever tries to absorb it while inside the WD, it explodes in his face. Totsuka can one shot inside the Water Dome without intel on it, and GSB being used inside the Water Dome forces it to pop while Yata blocks its effects.

 

[Beans2]

Please quote me saying he had intel on GSB. I said given he knows Kisame uses large scale Ninjutsu he'll replace himself with an exploding clone (not crow clone, seems more effective to use the exploding one) as a precaution. Itachi won't attempt to tank it, we already know Itachi conserves chakra in any way possible to prevent his eye sight from deteriorating. There's literally no chance Itachi will use Susano for regular ninjutsu when he's shown to use Bunshin feints as his favourite strategy.

Where did I say that you stated he had intel on GSB? What I'm saying is that without intel on the technique, Itachi will likely try to tank the attack with Susanoo rather than dodge it. Disagree with the bold, that's never been proven or stated. Itachi needlessly put Kakashi in Tsukuyomi despite not wanting to engage in battle. With intel on what a beast Kisame is, Itachi won't hesitate to whip out his stronger techniques like Susanoo.

And you STILL haven't told me how Itachi dodges the giant shark missile hurtling towards him at a

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. Putting a clone in front of him is nice and all, but then the shark eats both Itachi and his clone. Itachi needs to actually get out of the way, and he's underwater so shunshin isn't saving him here.

I would like to note that as Kisame is generating the large amounts of water Itachi's exploding clone has the potential to use the water bullets to pretty much one shots Kisame if he doesn't stop the WD's formation to protect himself in some way. Doing this will alert the real Itachi about the incoming jutsu.

Itachi can use water bullets?

Another strategy Itachi can utilise before the Water is even spat out is this [

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], which Kisame has no intel on. Kisame can be placed into Genjutsu without trouble via crows, and the fight would be finished then and there as he proceeds to Totsuka blitz him.

Wow... Kisame isn't Naruto and won't charge in recklessly, nor does he have to look at Itachi or his crows when he's spitting out water dome. Hell, he can close his eyes for all that matters. From a 40 meter distance, "genjutsu blitz" is just ridiculous. I don't think you get how fast it is for Kisame to use his water dome.

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Yes. That's literally all it takes, and then water comes

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and fills up the area

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.

And lol, Daikodan is not being used while WD is up. WD popped from excessive ink which prevented his ability to manipulate the WD.

:lol I've heard a lot of dumb things when it comes to Kisame but this takes the cake. Bolded is just an assumption on your part. The battle with Bee was over, or so Kisame thought, and since he wasn't trying to drown Bee and kill him, he dispersed the water dome himself and ended the jutsu.

Daikodan does the same, no way will he be able to use Daikodan while using WD at the same time.

I'll wait for a reason why.

Moreover, Kisame fuses while in WD. He can't do the 2-3 hand seals required with his webbed hands, so he'd need to release the fusion and become prone to Itachi's Suiton bullets.

Lmao...you do realize Kisame is a f**king savage right, and can just break the webbing between his fingers, or bite it off, and make hand seals regardless? Itachi is not beating Kisame with suiton lmfao. If anything, Itachi's hand seal speed will be slowed down underwater due to fluid resistance.

In the case Daikodan is still released, the WD would disappear and Yata Mirror can be put up in order to deflect it before it can absorb anything from the Susano. Totsuka also has the capacity to cut it up without any trouble with a swipe. Daikodan only absorbs what it consumed, so swiping the Totsuka from left to right, or right to left will have the Daikodan killed.

@Bold: Lmao. Give me proof.

Sure, Yata mirror tanks GSB. But why would Itachi jump to using V4 Susanoo against a technique like GSB which he has no intel on? Itachi had no idea how powerful Kirin was, yet he only used V3 to tank it. Slashing it in half with Totsuka will work sure, but Kisame doesn't need GSB to win. He can just sit there in water dome and wait for Itachi to run out of juice until he can't maintain Susanoo.

Uh no, Samehada is not a sensor, it's a quasi sensor. It can only detect people with large chakra quantities due to its desire for their chakra, but it's not an actual sensor who can sense chakra flow. That claim will never be proven regardless of how many people want to believe it. Kisame's sensory capabilities once he fuses with it isn't going to be applies to Samehada, Kisame while fused can absorb the entire v2 cloak while Samehada can only absorb 6 tails worth of chakra. Everything he does is NOT everything Samehada can do. Anyways, not all sensors are capable of checking chakra flow either. Karin is probably the best sensor in the manga. Saying because she can do it other sensors can is completely fallacious. So even Kisame while fused doesn't get this feat, because Karin's sensing>>>Kisame's. So Samehada is not pricking anybody here.

1. The fact that it tracked down Killer Bee's chakra from miles and miles away allowing Kisame to pinpoint Bee's exact location should be alone enough proof that Samehada is an acute sensor. "Quasi sensor" is just something you made up. Samehada senses skillfully enough to where it can

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to block V1 Bee's attack. MS Sasuke could

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. Its sensing also enables Kisame to fight fine in zero visibility conditions.

2. Yes fused Kisame's sensing feats can also apply to Samehada. I don't get why this is hard for you to understand when Samehada is a sensor and Kisame isn't. Your logic to prove Samehada absorbs more chakra when fused with Kisame is faulty for two reasons.

-Kisame himself can absorb chakra. [

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]
-Fused Kisame absorbed an entire V2 cloak over a longer duration of contact with Bee. He made Bee revert back to V1 in

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, but Samehada alone can do the

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. Unlike the instance with Samehada, fused Kisame

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with Bee and therefore kept absorbing the rest of Bee's cloak.

As for Karin being a better sensor than Kisame, so what? Samehada has literally

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as Kisame and is fused with him in the same body here. When it senses a shift in its partner's chakra, it will poke him.

And all this is not even mentioning that Kisame can break himself out of a 3T genjutsu.

Nope, all Genjutsu can do mental damage depending on intent [

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][

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]. Using Genjutsu like this one can force Kisame to throw away Samehada, or give enough time for Itachi to one shot him with kunai to the neck gg. Sasuke thought he one shotted Bee after he put him into Genjutsu, hence he turned around, but that was only because he didn't know about the link between perfect Jin and Biju. That would give indication that chakra amount is irrelevant when he thought he one shotted a v1 cloaked Bee. There are other cases of Genjutsu literally on shotting someone. Tsukiyomi can kill with a single usage. But if Kisame is within vulnerability of MS Genjutsu, then Tsukiyomi is obviously the better option. Biting his tongue? Lol, that doesn't work against high level Genjutsu, never has never will. Otherwise Hebi Sasuke would've done it before he was placed into 3 Genjutsu, Chiyo would've stated it was a possible counter to the Sharingan, etc. Pain infliction is not a viable method of breaking out, and disturbing his own chakra flow is only viable against normal Genjutsu, but if Kisame looks into Itachi's eyes he's being placed into Tsukiyomi and the fight is done then and there. Let's not forget Kisame is almost pain immune, he has one of the highest pain tolerances in the manga, and in this case it works against him.

You didn't give me a single scan of Cee or that cloud fodder taking mental damage. All that happened is Cee got paralyzed, and the fodder got his mind controlled to the degree where he was forced to spill the beans. Very different from forcing Kisame to physically throw away Samehada, especially an opponent like Kisame. The last time someone got their actions completely controlled by genjutsu was in Part 1 where a woman who wasn't even a ninja was used by Itachi to seduce Jiraiya. Even Kabuto under the double effects of Izanami and Tsukuyomi (both stronger than 3T genjutsu), was only shown to move his hands to make hand seals and move his mouth to speak. By your logic 3T Itachi can one shot the Third Raikage by catching him in genjutsu and forcing him to suicide via Nukite to his own heart.

Samehada will just return to him anyway, and kunai to the neck gg doesn't work because Itachi would first have to close the distance (not easy in water dome) before Kisame breaks out of it. Don't see how your example with Bee is relevant to anything I said. Weak ass evidence to prove pain won't break anyone out of a 3 tomoe genjutsu.

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. Kisame just bites off his tongue, and Samehada heals him and he grows a new one.

Ok, he doesn't (I'll think this over later, but concede for now), Totsuka still smashes him.

So you made me waste all this time explaining how Kisame breaks out of 3T genjutsu only for you to agree he won't get caught.

Ok.

Totsuka can extent at Itachi's will, staying out of its range will prove to be a difficult task. Furthermore, with no intel on it Kisame will think he can absorb it when he will actually end up getting sealed by it. And v3 Susano or v4 susano are only being used if Kisame gets within Totsuka range or GSB is fired. Otherwise he's not using Susano.

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That's the maximum length Totsuka has been shown to extend. Not very difficult for Kisame to stay out of range.

Remind me where he's shown fighting there, unless I'm missing something. And as I suggested at the start, Suiton bullets prevent WD from being used, exploding clone smashes Kisame if he ever tries to absorb it while inside the WD, it explodes in his face. Totsuka can one shot inside the Water Dome without intel on it, and GSB being used inside the Water Dome forces it to pop while Yata blocks its effects.

:lol. Do you not see Kisame landing multiple hits on Bee underwater in the smokescreen? Half of this paragraph is filled with fanfiction.

-Suiton bullets are tanked, if you're referring to

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. They were tanked by Kakashi's water wall, and Kisame is more durable than a wall of water. Samehada heals whatever damage he would take from them.

-Exploding clones are evaded like Kisame evaded Tenten's explosion. Besides, he has no reason to come near Itachi or a clone.

-Kisame simply stays out of Totsuka's range. Why would he try absorbing it when he doesn't have to get hit at all?

-GSB forces water dome to pop now? Give evidence.

 

[Manda II]

Kisame can win this if he's cautious enough.


The biggest problem will be the spirit weapons, which Kisame can counter by outlasting V3 and V4. With his immense chakra reserves often compared to the biju, this is entirely possible. If Itachi decides to fight the small scale way by using several Karasu bunshin feints to escape the Water Dome,

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will be used to pursuit the bunshins, effectively countering any sort of feint strategy Itachi tries to employ. Likewise, the nature of the Water Dome itself makes things even worse combined with Kisame's long range ninjutsu. Stated in the databook and shown in the manga, Kisame's

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anatomy allows him to move much faster underwater. Kisamehada put Kisame in place where he was comfortably blitzing V2 Bee. Coupled with the high drag/fluid resistance caused by the large-scale aquatic ninjutsu Water Dome, that will not only make Itachi's own movements sluggish, but also his Susano'o assaults. This leads me to believe that Kisame's

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movements combined with 1) the advantages Kisamehada gains underwater, 2) the massive AoE of his Suiton ninjutsu, fending off against Susano'o strikes and outlasting V3 is completely likely. The way I see it this fight can end with 2 outcomes. The first one being suffocation via Water Dome, and the second one is one-shotting Susano'o once it drops to V2 with GSB. Evading GSB which

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Hirudora in speed isn't an option, considering Madara with his Choku Tomoe and legged Susano'o was unable to avoid AT.

 

[Draegod]

Based on itachis "high chakra levels", him having sharingan, him being suiton user, and kisame water being every where. Itachi based on the claims before should be able to use gsb and water sharks as well just like kakashi mimicked zabuza. Abd using outside source water makes it easier on your body so he should be able to use every thing bar shock wave. In theory ofc.

Yata blocks gsb.
Crows flutter to disturb his senses (like used on sm kabuto).
AMA on WD should boil the water this killing kisame from outside correct?

Just some notations to consider on this match up. If itachi is healthy he wins IMO.

 

[Apêx1]

Where did I say that you stated he had intel on GSB? What I'm saying is that without intel on the technique, Itachi will likely try to tank the attack with Susanoo rather than dodge it. Disagree with the bold, that's never been proven or stated. Itachi needlessly put Kakashi in Tsukuyomi despite not wanting to engage in battle. With intel on what a beast Kisame is, Itachi won't hesitate to whip out his stronger techniques like Susanoo.

Again, I don't see why Itachi would try and use Susano to tank it when using a crow clone would be far more effective. Itachi tends to either avoid attacks or use bunshin feints, as shown against Sasuke, Deidara and Kakashi. Definitely don't see him using his Susano from the get-go, makes little sense when he knows Kisame can spam attacks for days while Itachi himself can't. Itachi put Kakashi in Tsukiyomi after doing several Bunshin feints, which reinforces my point of bunshin feints and evasion always coming before MS techniques. Itachi only used it because he didn't want Gai, Kurenai and Asuma to follow them while they fled in order to avoid fighting reinforcements. So no, with intel on Kisame's Bijuu like chakra reserves he won't be needlessly wasting chakra like that.

And you STILL haven't told me how Itachi dodges the giant shark missile hurtling towards him at a

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. Putting a clone in front of him is nice and all, but then the shark eats both Itachi and his clone. Itachi needs to actually get out of the way, and he's underwater so shunshin isn't saving him here.

It's being aimed at his clone, so Itachi just needs to go th other way of wherever the clone is going (GSB follows the clone). And again, Itachi will not be underwater in this fight.

Itachi can use water bullets?

Yes, the ones he used against Kakashi which come from behind and in front of Kisame. They are the biggest game changer in this fight after Genjutsu.

Wow... Kisame isn't Naruto and won't charge in recklessly, nor does he have to look at Itachi or his crows when he's spitting out water dome. Hell, he can close his eyes for all that matters. From a 40 meter distance, "genjutsu blitz" is just ridiculous. I don't think you get how fast it is for Kisame to use his water dome.

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Yes. That's literally all it takes, and then water comes

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and fills up the area

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.

He doesn't have to charge in recklessly though, without intel on the crows Kisame will not attempt to avoid eye contact with the crow that comes right into his gaze, and that's the end of it. And no, closing his eyes is a stupid argument, nobody will ever do that against a Sharingan user and nobody ever has. If he tries that he gets hit by water bullets guaranteed, simple.

And I know how fast it occurs, doesn't change the fact that Itachi kills him before it's done.

:lol I've heard a lot of dumb things when it comes to Kisame but this takes the cake. Bolded is just an assumption on your part. The battle with Bee was over, or so Kisame thought, and since he wasn't trying to drown Bee and kill him, he dispersed the water dome himself and ended the jutsu.



I'll wait for a reason why.

No, the only thing we can infer is that Kisame could no longer control it due to the ink's interference and it popped. No reason to suggest it popped by will when Kisame was still trying to damage Bee after the Water Dome popped. He'd clearly have kept the Water Dome around had he been capable of doing so.

As I said, no way he can control the Daikodan and Water Dome at the same time, you're giving him chakra control feats that he does not possess.


L

mao...you do realize Kisame is a f**king savage right, and can just break the webbing between his fingers, or bite it off, and make hand seals regardless? Itachi is not beating Kisame with suiton lmfao. If anything, Itachi's hand seal speed will be slowed down underwater due to fluid resistance.

Lol, Kisame is truly a savage. But no, hand seals are not slowed down by the water at all. Go under water and tell me if your fingers are slowed down, the answer is no--negligibly. Water resistance is immensely small since we're talking about something as small as a finger with a curved edge.

@Bold: Lmao. Give me proof.

Already did.

Sure, Yata mirror tanks GSB. But why would Itachi jump to using V4 Susanoo against a technique like GSB which he has no intel on? Itachi had no idea how powerful Kirin was, yet he only used V3 to tank it. Slashing it in half with Totsuka will work sure, but Kisame doesn't need GSB to win. He can just sit there in water dome and wait for Itachi to run out of juice until he can't maintain Susanoo.

Ok, he doesn't jump, I agree. Doesn't matter since 99% of the time Totsuka has been used to destroy something it was with a right to left slash. Same occurs here and the Daikodan is disrupted. If not, then the swings can be done on and on given how fast Totsuka is swung.

1. The fact that it tracked down Killer Bee's chakra from miles and miles away allowing Kisame to pinpoint Bee's exact location should be alone enough proof that Samehada is an acute sensor. "Quasi sensor" is just something you made up. Samehada senses skillfully enough to where it can

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to block V1 Bee's attack. MS Sasuke could

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. Its sensing also enables Kisame to fight fine in zero visibility conditions.

2. Yes fused Kisame's sensing feats can also apply to Samehada. I don't get why this is hard for you to understand when Samehada is a sensor and Kisame isn't. Your logic to prove Samehada absorbs more chakra when fused with Kisame is faulty for two reasons.

-Kisame himself can absorb chakra. [

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]
-Fused Kisame absorbed an entire V2 cloak over a longer duration of contact with Bee. He made Bee revert back to V1 in

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, but Samehada alone can do the

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. Unlike the instance with Samehada, fused Kisame

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with Bee and therefore kept absorbing the rest of Bee's cloak.

As for Karin being a better sensor than Kisame, so what? Samehada has literally

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as Kisame and is fused with him in the same body here. When it senses a shift in its partner's chakra, it will poke him.

1. That makes it a quasi sensor capable of sensing large chakra's due to appetite, it doesn't make it a chakra sensor. And I didn't make it up, you can look it up on google, it's a commonly accepted thing.

2. No they can't, they are exclusive to Kisame, not Samehada.

Kisame absorbing chakra can be attributed to Kisame and Samehada sharing chakra for so long that they now possess identical chakra signatures (it was stated that they do). And ok, still doesn't change anything because you have yet to give me proof of Samehada being able to sense chakra flow. Only a few gifted sensors have that ability, and Kisame does not get that feat because he hasn't shown it. Cee got caught in Genjutsu and he's a gifted sensor, he still couldn't tell if he was in Genjutsu or not hence him questioning it.

So again, bring me some proof of Samehda having this ability or concede, since not all chakra sensors have the ability to sense chakra flow in the first place.

And all this is not even mentioning that Kisame can break himself out of a 3T genjutsu.

No he can't.

You didn't give me a single scan of Cee or that cloud fodder taking mental damage. All that happened is Cee got paralyzed, and the fodder got his mind controlled to the degree where he was forced to spill the beans. Very different from forcing Kisame to physically throw away Samehada, especially an opponent like Kisame. The last time someone got their actions completely controlled by genjutsu was in Part 1 where a woman who wasn't even a ninja was used by Itachi to seduce Jiraiya. Even Kabuto under the double effects of Izanami and Tsukuyomi (both stronger than 3T genjutsu), was only shown to move his hands to make hand seals and move his mouth to speak. By your logic 3T Itachi can one shot the Third Raikage by catching him in genjutsu and forcing him to suicide via Nukite to his own heart.

Uh, what?? Cee collapsed on the floor and his eyes made him look like he was insane, that's mental damage. The cloud fodder was collapsed due to mental damage, not for random reasons, he was collapsing as he was talking and you can see Suigetsu mentioning how haxxed his Genjutsu has become. That's mental damage in the same way Cee got mentally damaged. It's not paralysis Genjutsu, paralysis Genjutsu is like the one Sasuke and Itachi used against Orochimaru.

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And I don't see what you are inferring on bold. That's all Itachi wanted him to do. And Sharingan gives control of the opponent. That's why the Kyuubi can be controlled, every one of its actions, only by the MS Genjutsu (3T by Obito probably due to Hashirama DNA). The stronger the Dojutsu the stronger the Genjutsu. I don't see any reason as to why he can't force the Raikage to commit suicide had he gained control over him, in the same way why I don't see what's preventing Sasuke from making Kisame throw away his sword. It's controlled people on many occasions, so I don't see what there's to deny here. It even controlled the Kyuubi, so Kisame not being a potential target for control is absurd. Has any none-Dojutsu or Perfect Jin even prevented himself from being controlled by the MS Genjutsu via sheer power? Nope, never, the only way you can even argue this is if you bring up some sort of scenario where personal power wasn't what was used to prevent the Genjutsu. Since Kisame doesn't have anything other then personal power, he loses to Genjutsu, simple as that.

Samehada will just return to him anyway, and kunai to the neck gg doesn't work because Itachi would first have to close the distance (not easy in water dome) before Kisame breaks out of it. Don't see how your example with Bee is relevant to anything I said. Weak ass evidence to prove pain won't break anyone out of a 3 tomoe genjutsu.

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. Kisame just bites off his tongue, and Samehada heals him and he grows a new one.

I'm saying this happens before Water Dome is ever up. Crows released to initiate Genjutsu are far faster then hand seals and spitting the water out. And even then water bullets are another alternative to end the fight. Orochimaru would've bit his own tongue if it was possible, but he didn't, and that's with him having a 5 in Genjutsu. Not sure why I should believe Kisame can bite his to leave, as far as I can tell Itachi stopped the Genjutsu after he struck Orochimaru since he didn't need him to stay paralysed. Also, you'll need to bring me evidence Kisame feels pain from biting his tongue. He got his ribcage busted and sat there with his organs exposed and showed no pain. He was eaten by sharks and didn't scream. He got hit by Hirudora and didn't show pain after it. Please tell me how he will break out of the Genjutsu without feeling pain from losing body parts.

So you made me waste all this time explaining how Kisame breaks out of 3T genjutsu only for you to agree he won't get caught.

Only agreed he isn't getting caught within the water.

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That's the maximum length Totsuka has been shown to extend. Not very difficult for Kisame to stay out of range.

Actually, this is the maximum length it's been shown to extend and that range is absolutely huge [

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]. Not to mention there's nothing limiting it from extending further since it possesses no physical form and is the sister sword of Oro's Kusanagi.

:lol. Do you not see Kisame landing multiple hits on Bee underwater in the smokescreen? Half of this paragraph is filled with fanfiction.

Ok my bad, I didn't comprehend what was going on there.

-Suiton bullets are tanked, if you're referring to

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. They were tanked by Kakashi's water wall, and Kisame is more durable than a wall of water. Samehada heals whatever damage he would take from them.

No. Kisame is shown to be weak against cutting techniques as shown when Kunai's pierced him with ease. Suiton bullets which use torque to drill will go through his body with ease. Suiton wall tanking it means Suiton wall gets that feat, it's already tanked explosions anyways. So no, Samehda is not healing damage like that when he's getting pierced from one side to the other, and it achieves the purpose of Itachi stopping WD and gives him the ability to one shot with Genjutsu at that moment.

-Exploding clones are evaded like Kisame evaded Tenten's explosion. Besides, he has no reason to come near Itachi or a clone.

Didn't he evade it with his sword? He can't evade this explosion that way since the clone is larger then his sword and he won't expect it like he did Tenten's explosion.

-Kisame simply stays out of Totsuka's range. Why would he try absorbing it when he doesn't have to get hit at all?

-GSB forces water dome to pop now? Give evidence.

Not a chance.

Again, no chakra control feats to prove he can do such a thing.

 

[ARGUS]

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[WreckRolled]

itachi high diff

 

[Unorthodox]

Funny how all the same lames saying that he negs Sasuke is the same ones saying Itachi though the latter is mirror image of the other discount tsukuyomi,Snakes,Hawks,Kirin

Now shark skin reacts to slow to the partner method where was this in that MS Sasuke thread?

Itachi wins Sasuke wins simple as that this thread shows the bias

 

[Beans2]

Funny how all the same lames saying that he negs Sasuke is the same ones saying Itachi though the latter is mirror image of the other discount tsukuyomi,Snakes,Hawks,Kirin

Now shark skin reacts to slow to the partner method where was this in that MS Sasuke thread?

Itachi wins Sasuke wins simple as that this thread shows the bias

Sasuke actually has better chances he has his hawk, Kirin, Susanoo arrows i don't see how itachi wins all kisame has to do is outlast

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Except Itachi is superior in every category, and has god weapons that are better tools then anything Sasuke has in his arsenal.

OT: Could go either way, but I'm favoring Kisame due to the starting distance.

 

[Unorthodox]

Sasuke actually has better chances he has his hawk, Kirin, Susanoo arrows i don't see how itachi wins all kisame has to do is outlast

I think Itachi loses to but its funny how the bias is though Sasuke can only escape WD with snake summonings and hawk Itachi has none of that so he drowns simple as that Itachi just gets the benefit of the doubt as usual

Except Itachi is superior in every category, and has god weapons.

Genjutsu useless both sides, Speed non factor because of susanoo same with cqc, Susanoo = susanoo god weapons are hype and not getting past susanoo thus irrelevant Sasuke chakra > Itachi so he gets outlasted you keep saying superior in every way without giving any actual reasons why.

and him ''being superior in every way'' would not help in this match Genjutsu countered via clones amaterasu absorbed waterdome and gsb drowns him and eats his susanoo away so he would still lose Sasuke has better chances

 

[UchiGod Itachi]

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See how they just passed by your post Kisame admitting Itachi superior lol. (Manga Fact)

[video=youtube;sgcbWfSswUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgcbWfSswUs[/video]

 

[Unorthodox]

See how they just passed by your post Kisame admitting Itachi superior lol. (Manga Fact)

[video=youtube;sgcbWfSswUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgcbWfSswUs[/video]

someone saying someone else is stronger is negated by the fact that character b feats beats his opponent

 

[UchiGod Itachi]

someone saying someone else is stronger is negated by the fact that character b feats beats his opponent

Kisame stops Kotoamatsukami how again?

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[Mad Titan Thanos]

Kisame have better feats and actual counters to Susanoo,so despite Itachi wank ,yes with intel and distance Kisame can and would win.

 

[RedRobin]

Kisame stops Kotoamatsukami how again?

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Itachi doesnt have it. He gave it to Naruto.

 

[Draegod]

Itachi

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, then SHunshin's away or clone feint. Simple. A simple shunshin side step on such a linear attack is laughed at. But Water prison then a GSB might do the trick. Itachi will literally know every jutsu he would attempt and either match or counter.