Kaede
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Kisame (Edo sasori) vs. Onoki (Puppet Master) PUT YOUR POKER FACE ON! WHO WILL WIN???
- Thread starter Prince Charles
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Kaede
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Damn. If that is how you want to play... Then:
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This is what happens when Prince Charles leaves a reply on a debate thread. Lol Everyone starts posting porn
~Puppet Master~
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XD The Kisame horse cracked me up!
I'll post my counter later tonight u_u
I'll post my counter later tonight u_u
Kaede
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Alright. Take your time. It's your last post, right? Then I post my last counter and we let the judges do their stuff. u_u
Kaede
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~Puppet Master~
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Bumping this (¬‿¬)
Princessu Kaaantchan
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Kaede
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Princessu Kaaantchan
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Last edited:
Kaede
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~Puppet Master~
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#Kisameshittin' (¬‿¬)
Now with name tags, so TheAncientBlindturion can understand it u_u
Le Counters
Le AC
It's true that Ohnoki tends to fly even outside of the battle, however, since we didn't give prep time to either of them, Ohnoki should start on the ground. Actually, we have been given a starting distance. Look at the OP. Kisame may not have intel on him, but Kisame is the type of guy that tends to charge in despite not having intel on his opponent. I am well aware that Samehada's absorbing range isn't really large and that's why I said that Kisame can use Samehada's ability to extend her hilt. Samehada doesn't need to touch it's target, it just needs to be close to it. Look at the bottom left panel of this scan. You stated that Ohnoki can use his Weight Technique on Kisame, but do I need to remind you that technique uses Chakra so it will be absorbed by Samehada. Even if it does do some damage to Kisame, Samehada will heal him. Also, to use that technique, Ohnoki will have to touch Kisame and if gets close Kisame can either rip him apart with Samehada or he can smack him down. Guy claims that Kisame has Super Human Strenght. Now if Kisame already used his Water Style to change the battlefield into a lake, you know what follows. Guy had to use his Gates to blow away the Sharks. I don't remember Ohnok having Guy's Gates Technique.
Le AC
It's true that Ohnoki can go high, but he tends to keep close to his opponent and he doesn't just fly off because then Ohnoki would only be able to reach his opponent by using Jinton and I doubt that he can just keep on spamming Jinton. Ohnoki claimed that he used up his Chakra against Muu despite only using just one Jinton, one Weight Technique and flying the whole time. This tells me that Ohnoki's Chakra reserves aren't really big. He could still use Techniques such as that Rock Fist technique, but he couldn't use Jinton anymore. Because of that, Ohnoki will have to enter close combat with Kisame and we both know who will win that. After all, Kisame is an expert at Kenjutsu.
Le AC
To be honest, I agree with you now that Kisame's Water Dome probably won't be able to fly. However, that doesn't mean that Kisame can't reach Ohnoki. Like I said before, Kisame can create huge waves on which he can stand so that he would be closer to Ohnoki. Please do keep in mind that Ohnoki doesn't go very far away from his opponents since then he would need to rely on Jinton and we both know that he can't spam Jinton. After Kisame creates his one of his huge waves, he can proceed to use his Suikodan technique to shoot down Ohnoki. Let me add one more point. This Suikodan technique can be a good counter to the Jinton. How? Well, Ohnoki has to form his Jinton first and Deidara has already shown to counter Jinton by shooting off a clay bird at Ohnoki so Akatsuchi had to protect them both. Since Ohnoki needs to stand still while forming a Jinton, Kisame can hit him with his Suikodan technique before he completes it. Ohnoki also hasn't shown the ability to use the Rock Golem technique while creating a Jinton, simply because the needs to focus to make the Jinton. Also, let's not forget that Kisame can use his one thousand shark wave to bring down Ohnoki.
Le AC
Yes, it's true that you can still use Ninjutsu in there, but it would help Kisame if it absorbs Ohnoki's Chakra even a little bit. Now you claim that Ohnoki would be able to fly out of the Dome, but you are forgetting that he would be slower underwater. Killer Bee was fast only due to him being an Octopus. Kisame stated that Killer Bee really is an Octopus. There's a scan which hints that Sabuchan and Ponta would be unable to escape it so Killer Bee had to get them out. Killer Bee stated that ''At this rate, Sabuchan and Ponta will drown''. Furthermore, when Killer Bee tried to escape the Water Dome, Kisame said ''You can't escape it. You're at too much of a disadvantage.'' Ohnoki won't be able to escape the Water Dome just because he is slower while Kisame is faster underwater so Kisame will keep on blitzing him just like he blitzed Bee. Not to mention that when Kisame will be blitzing him, he would be touching him as well so he would suck up Ohnoki's Chakra.
Le AC
It's true that Jinton is a Kekkei Tota, however, it's doubtful that is uses more Chakra than Bee's V1 and V2 forms have. Kisame was able to absorb Bee's V1 and V2 forms so I don't see why it wouldn't be able to absorb Jinton. I already said that Samehada doesn't need to make physical contact in order to absorb Chakra. It just needs to be close to it's target. Look at the bottom left panel. Jinton may have a form of intangibility, but it's still made out of Chakra so it can be absorbed.
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Now with name tags, so TheAncientBlindturion can understand it u_u
Le Counters
Le AC
It's true that Ohnoki tends to fly even outside of the battle, however, since we didn't give prep time to either of them, Ohnoki should start on the ground. Actually, we have been given a starting distance. Look at the OP. Kisame may not have intel on him, but Kisame is the type of guy that tends to charge in despite not having intel on his opponent. I am well aware that Samehada's absorbing range isn't really large and that's why I said that Kisame can use Samehada's ability to extend her hilt. Samehada doesn't need to touch it's target, it just needs to be close to it. Look at the bottom left panel of this scan. You stated that Ohnoki can use his Weight Technique on Kisame, but do I need to remind you that technique uses Chakra so it will be absorbed by Samehada. Even if it does do some damage to Kisame, Samehada will heal him. Also, to use that technique, Ohnoki will have to touch Kisame and if gets close Kisame can either rip him apart with Samehada or he can smack him down. Guy claims that Kisame has Super Human Strenght. Now if Kisame already used his Water Style to change the battlefield into a lake, you know what follows. Guy had to use his Gates to blow away the Sharks. I don't remember Ohnok having Guy's Gates Technique.
Le PP
To illustrate just how large this starting distance is, I made this fail pic [
Now about Samehada absorbing Onoki's weight technique before it takes effect, mind you that Samehada is a living creature and thus is not perfect. I have my doubts if Samehada would be able to absorb the technique when Onoki is touching Kisame, meaning the chakra doesn't travel through the air, can you imagine just how fast the technique would take effect? If there is physical contact between Onoki and Kisame, this means Samehada has no saying in this.
To illustrate just how large this starting distance is, I made this fail pic [
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], I was going to measure all 25 meters, starting from Kisame, but I was too lazy to increase the width of my image, but I think it proves my point, that even with Samehada's extendable hilt, Onoki will be able to fly up in time. Now as for the melee situation, Onoki will never engage in CQC himself, but as I said, with clones. Considering he was able to make Akatsuchi and Kurotsuchi lighter than a feather just by touching them [
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], means he can make Kisame too heavy to move just by touching him, which is something his clones will do. And you also say Samehada can heal Kisame after he's been made heavier, but I don't see this happening. Onoki's jutsu uses chakra in order to increase Kisame's mass, this can't be healed or absorbed by Samehada.Now about Samehada absorbing Onoki's weight technique before it takes effect, mind you that Samehada is a living creature and thus is not perfect. I have my doubts if Samehada would be able to absorb the technique when Onoki is touching Kisame, meaning the chakra doesn't travel through the air, can you imagine just how fast the technique would take effect? If there is physical contact between Onoki and Kisame, this means Samehada has no saying in this.
Le AC
It's true that Ohnoki can go high, but he tends to keep close to his opponent and he doesn't just fly off because then Ohnoki would only be able to reach his opponent by using Jinton and I doubt that he can just keep on spamming Jinton. Ohnoki claimed that he used up his Chakra against Muu despite only using just one Jinton, one Weight Technique and flying the whole time. This tells me that Ohnoki's Chakra reserves aren't really big. He could still use Techniques such as that Rock Fist technique, but he couldn't use Jinton anymore. Because of that, Ohnoki will have to enter close combat with Kisame and we both know who will win that. After all, Kisame is an expert at Kenjutsu.
Le PP
Now those examples you offered about Onoki always keeping close are a little invalid, since in the first one he was pretty far from his opponent, in the second one he was in the middle of going QCQ with his opponent, and in the third one he was in a room. And about that chakra situation, I honestly think it's something Kishi pulled out of his ass since not only does the flight technique not consume chakra after its initial activation ( as I've already explained ), but he was also able to fly afterwards and make an entire meteor light enough to be carried by Gaara. Yes, Onoki cannot spam Jinton, but he doesn't need to. Also, as I proved, and will prove later on, Onoki isn't at as much of a disadvantage in CQC as you think he is.
Now those examples you offered about Onoki always keeping close are a little invalid, since in the first one he was pretty far from his opponent, in the second one he was in the middle of going QCQ with his opponent, and in the third one he was in a room. And about that chakra situation, I honestly think it's something Kishi pulled out of his ass since not only does the flight technique not consume chakra after its initial activation ( as I've already explained ), but he was also able to fly afterwards and make an entire meteor light enough to be carried by Gaara. Yes, Onoki cannot spam Jinton, but he doesn't need to. Also, as I proved, and will prove later on, Onoki isn't at as much of a disadvantage in CQC as you think he is.
Le AC
To be honest, I agree with you now that Kisame's Water Dome probably won't be able to fly. However, that doesn't mean that Kisame can't reach Ohnoki. Like I said before, Kisame can create huge waves on which he can stand so that he would be closer to Ohnoki. Please do keep in mind that Ohnoki doesn't go very far away from his opponents since then he would need to rely on Jinton and we both know that he can't spam Jinton. After Kisame creates his one of his huge waves, he can proceed to use his Suikodan technique to shoot down Ohnoki. Let me add one more point. This Suikodan technique can be a good counter to the Jinton. How? Well, Ohnoki has to form his Jinton first and Deidara has already shown to counter Jinton by shooting off a clay bird at Ohnoki so Akatsuchi had to protect them both. Since Ohnoki needs to stand still while forming a Jinton, Kisame can hit him with his Suikodan technique before he completes it. Ohnoki also hasn't shown the ability to use the Rock Golem technique while creating a Jinton, simply because the needs to focus to make the Jinton. Also, let's not forget that Kisame can use his one thousand shark wave to bring down Ohnoki.
Le PP
Yes, Kisame's Suiton is of unknown proportions since we've only seen him use his wave technique at 30% chakra, however do keep in mind the location of this battle,
And about the Suikodan counter, you completely misunderstood that scan, Onoki was about to use Jinton on Deidara, but Akatsuchi stopped him since he could potentially harm turtle island, Deidara saw an opening and attacked, he never interrupted Onoki's Jinton [
Yes, Kisame's Suiton is of unknown proportions since we've only seen him use his wave technique at 30% chakra, however do keep in mind the location of this battle,
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forest. It does look like these trees do not allow for Kisame to flood the whole place, he'd have to create such a huge wave that it would have to flood the entire forest and still reach above the trees. As long as Kisame isn't riding his on an ocean, he won't be able to shoot down Onoki. The location is truly disadvantageous to Kisame.And about the Suikodan counter, you completely misunderstood that scan, Onoki was about to use Jinton on Deidara, but Akatsuchi stopped him since he could potentially harm turtle island, Deidara saw an opening and attacked, he never interrupted Onoki's Jinton [
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] And since Jinton doesn't require hand seals, I honestly don't believe Suiton is sufficient to interrupt Jinton.Le AC
Yes, it's true that you can still use Ninjutsu in there, but it would help Kisame if it absorbs Ohnoki's Chakra even a little bit. Now you claim that Ohnoki would be able to fly out of the Dome, but you are forgetting that he would be slower underwater. Killer Bee was fast only due to him being an Octopus. Kisame stated that Killer Bee really is an Octopus. There's a scan which hints that Sabuchan and Ponta would be unable to escape it so Killer Bee had to get them out. Killer Bee stated that ''At this rate, Sabuchan and Ponta will drown''. Furthermore, when Killer Bee tried to escape the Water Dome, Kisame said ''You can't escape it. You're at too much of a disadvantage.'' Ohnoki won't be able to escape the Water Dome just because he is slower while Kisame is faster underwater so Kisame will keep on blitzing him just like he blitzed Bee. Not to mention that when Kisame will be blitzing him, he would be touching him as well so he would suck up Ohnoki's Chakra.
Le PP
I disagree, I think we can assume that Onoki was airborne when Kisame initiated this technique, meaning that Onoki is still lighter than a feather. What happens to light objects? They aren't affected by the forces of gravity as much as heavy objects, and since Kisame is able to move around freely, we can safely assume that Onoki, still being lighter than a feather, would in fact be able to move around, perhaps even easier than Kisame. Even though Kisame could be faster, you are still forgetting Onoki can go up, as opposed to Bee. And since we've proven that the water dome doesn't follow kisame vertically, he does in fact have a good chance of escaping.
Now it's time for more science
This confirms that, the lighter the object, the more it will float, resulting in Onoki passively moving up, without even having to do effort.
I disagree, I think we can assume that Onoki was airborne when Kisame initiated this technique, meaning that Onoki is still lighter than a feather. What happens to light objects? They aren't affected by the forces of gravity as much as heavy objects, and since Kisame is able to move around freely, we can safely assume that Onoki, still being lighter than a feather, would in fact be able to move around, perhaps even easier than Kisame. Even though Kisame could be faster, you are still forgetting Onoki can go up, as opposed to Bee. And since we've proven that the water dome doesn't follow kisame vertically, he does in fact have a good chance of escaping.
Now it's time for more science
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article explains why light things float: "Some objects float due to low density and low mass whereas others sink due to high mass and high density."This confirms that, the lighter the object, the more it will float, resulting in Onoki passively moving up, without even having to do effort.
Le AC
It's true that Jinton is a Kekkei Tota, however, it's doubtful that is uses more Chakra than Bee's V1 and V2 forms have. Kisame was able to absorb Bee's V1 and V2 forms so I don't see why it wouldn't be able to absorb Jinton. I already said that Samehada doesn't need to make physical contact in order to absorb Chakra. It just needs to be close to it's target. Look at the bottom left panel. Jinton may have a form of intangibility, but it's still made out of Chakra so it can be absorbed.
Le PP
While this might seem obvious, Jinton made Sasuke's body completely disappear, meaning that it destroyed both his molecules and his chakra [
While this might seem obvious, Jinton made Sasuke's body completely disappear, meaning that it destroyed both his molecules and his chakra [
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], meaning this technique would do some serious damage if it hit Kisame, and since we've seen how Samehada can still be influenced by the technique's effects even during absorbing it [
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], it's even possible for Samehada to get damaged by it, and since it can't absorb the technique in 360 degrees, Kisame should he wary of his own head, after all if his brain is damaged, it's basically over.And then le PP got lazy and stopped typing, few days later, le AC resigned via VM and le PP still decided to post this (._. ) Also sorry for the lack of manga scans, laziness...
If the judges still want to judge, then feel free, perhaps you have a different opinion after reading this.
Fodder#4
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>.> Might wanna replace me as a judge. I'm going off to college early tomorrow and... I don't know when I'll have free time to sit down, try to figure out who's text is who's (That's to you, Puppet Master) and make my (Un)biased decision.
~Puppet Master~
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Actually, I added nametags just for you u_u
But it's been decided Onoki wins so there's no need for judging anymore.
Kaede
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Fodder#4
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