[Theory] Kirin will be Sasuke's weapon of choice against Juubito

[Zol]

The difference between Ninjutsu and Senjutsu is the natural energy component. Senjutsu is effective because it contains natural energy. Kirin is natural energy.

We don't know why exactly Senjutsu is effective. But the natural energy, or the form of connection to it, is different than the natural elements every Ninjutsu involves. Even though Kirin is said to be composed of "natural energy", it's still a jutsu that builds on Sasuke's regular elemental affinity for thunder Ninjutsu. So, until we learn more, I would say it's a far stretch to assume it can damage Obito in the same way as Senjutsu...

 

[adeshina365]

We don't know why exactly Senjutsu is effective. But the natural energy, or the form of connection to it, is different than the natural elements every Ninjutsu involves. Even though Kirin is said to be composed of "natural energy", it's still a jutsu that builds on Sasuke's regular elemental affinity for thunder Ninjutsu. So, until we learn more, I would say it's a far stretch to assume it can damage Obito in the same way as Senjutsu...

Natural energy being why Senjutsu is effective is a virtual guarantee. It's the only known difference between Ninjutsu and Senjutsu.

Natural energy is simply nature's energy. Natural lightning is a form of nature's energy.

Not sure what you mean by Kirin being a jutsu that builds on Sasuke's lightning affinity. It's explicitly said by Black Zetsu that Kirin is beyond anything that any Shinobi can create with their own chakra. It's an entirely separate technique. That statement by Black Zetsu for me erodes any comparison that can be made between Lightning Release Ninjutsu and a pure Natural energy jutsu like Kirin.

Edit: And IMO, the fact that we haven't seen Kirin in 250 chapters makes this more likely. I don't think Kishimoto has forgotten about that jutsu.

 

[FourthSmokage]

I completely agree. Sasuke is a lot stronger now and he has had time to train and get used to his new eyes and improve all of his jutsu. Even in the first panel that we see of him emerging during the war, you can clearly see thunder and lightning going off in the background.

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It seems to me like Sasuke was messing with the clouds and perhaps making some advancements on his Kirin just before emerged to take part in the war.

The natural energy is what makes Senjutsu effective against Obito. Although Kirin isn't senjutsu, it is still most likely an effective jutsu to use on Obito. Although, since Black and White Zetsu have already seen Kirin, Obito probably knows about Kirin already, so it'll be interesting to see how Sasuke tries to pull it off.

Either way, OP is right on with everything. I don't know why it's so hard to explain this to people... They think that just because Kirin isn't Senjutsu, it's fodder against Obito, although its the natural energy that helped Naruto's rasengan hurt Obito. And honestly, if Sasuke doesnt have Kirin then what else can he use against Obito? Nothing, he'd just sit there with his Susano holding his d*ck, and that wouldn't be good for the story. Kirin, on the other hand, would be.

EDIT: I'm not a Sasuke fanboy by any means. I'm about as far from an Uchiha fan as one can get, but it's obvious even to me that Kirin is on its way. Maybe Naruto and Sasuke can combine their natural energy attacks too :3

 

[david098]

it is ninjutsu. its raiton style.

 

[adeshina365]

it is ninjutsu. its raiton style.

Kirin is pure natural lightning.

It isn't a nature maniplulation of any sort. Black Zetsu specifically says that Kirin is beyond what shinobi can produce with their own chakra and nature manipulation. Put emphasis on the nature manipulation point, it means that Kirin isn't an elemental release, but instead pure natural lightning (an energy of nature).

 

[GhostProject]

I like this theory, it's plausible for Kishi to use, and it is a whole lot better than Sasuke pulling out random Sage Mode to get back in the fight.

I don't think it'll be used as a 'go-to weapon' necessarily, but I can see it as the massive game-changer that Obito overlooks.

Anyways, good stuff

 

[adeshina365]

I like this theory, it's plausible for Kishi to use, and it is a whole lot better than Sasuke pulling out random Sage Mode to get back in the fight.

I don't think it'll be used as a 'go-to weapon' necessarily, but I can see it as the massive game-changer that Obito overlooks.

Anyways, good stuff

Agreed and thanks.

 

[Honord Sage]

All Kin is using your chakra to lasso a lightning cloud and redirected to a target and its slow. Its useless against Obito who will detected the changes in the weather and cancel it sines Sasuke has to use His chakra to capture and direct it sines you have to use Ninjutsu to control it.

 

[RinneBlitz]

Yup, I'm curious to see Kirin again! It is one of the best techniques in NV, but we've seen it only once... I think that Obito will be defeated by Sasuke's Kirin and Naruto's ... well, probably Cho Oodama Rasen-Tarengan? Or maybe some power-up technique? Let's see, but I hope that Sasuke will use Kirin in the upcoming chapters!

 

[Zol]

Natural energy being why Senjutsu is effective is a virtual guarantee. It's the only known difference between Ninjutsu and Senjutsu.

Natural energy is simply nature's energy. Natural lightning is a form of nature's energy.

Not sure what you mean by Kirin being a jutsu that builds on Sasuke's lightning affinity. It's explicitly said by Black Zetsu that Kirin is beyond anything that any Shinobi can create with their own chakra. It's an entirely separate technique. That statement by Black Zetsu for me erodes any comparison that can be made between Lightning Release Ninjutsu and a pure Natural energy jutsu like Kirin.

Edit: And IMO, the fact that we haven't seen Kirin in 250 chapters makes this more likely. I don't think Kishimoto has forgotten about that jutsu.

Come on, Kishi either forgot or deliberately does not care anymore about dozens of techniques, characters etc. That is hardly an argument.

I'm not saying Kirin isn't going to be reintroduced, but as long as the only thing we know is that Senjutsu is potent against Obito, saying nothing about natural energy and other techniques beside Senjutsu, it remains an elaborate guess at best.

 

[adeshina365]

Come on, Kishi either forgot or deliberately does not care anymore about dozens of techniques, characters etc. That is hardly an argument.

I'm not saying Kirin isn't going to be reintroduced, but as long as the only thing we know is that Senjutsu is potent against Obito, saying nothing about natural energy and other techniques beside Senjutsu, it remains an elaborate guess at best.

I would agree with you if it was a technique for another character, but I disagree in the case of the second most important character in the manga, Sasuke.

The only known difference between Senjutsu and Ninjutsu is the nature energy component in Senjutsu. This is fact based on the knowledge that's been provided from the the manga thus far. Me saying that Kirin could potentially harm Juubito isn't an elaborate guess, but an hypothesis based on the facts established thus far in the manga.

 

[Hikari Uchiha Senju]

Wow, I actually like this!

 

[adeshina365]

Wow, I actually like this!

Thank you.

 

[Mr Hiru]

- Ninjutsu uses Spiritual and Physical Energy (balanced 1:1 ratio)

- Senjutsu uses Spiritual, Physical and Natural Energy (balanced 1:1:1 ratio)

- Kirin is a Special kind of Ninjutsu

- Kirin is powered by Natural Energy only

- Kirin is redirected with Spiritual and Physical Energy (1:1 ratio)

- Amaterasu won't damage Obito

- Rasen shuriken won't damage Obito

- Amaterasu + Rasen shuriken won't damage Obito

- Ninjutsu won't damage Obito

- Rasengan is Ninjutsu

- Sempou Rasengan Damaged Obito

- Difference between Rasengan and Sempou Rasengan: Natural Energy

Deduction:

What really damaged Obito wasn't Naruto's Rasengan being a Senjutsu technique, but the technique having Nature energy inside.

This said, I conclude that Kirin not being Senjutsu CAN damage Obito.

 

[adeshina365]

- Ninjutsu uses Spiritual and Physical Energy (balanced 1:1 ratio)

- Senjutsu uses Spiritual, Physical and Natural Energy (balanced 1:1:1 ratio)

- Kirin is a Special kind of Ninjutsu

- Kirin is powered by Natural Energy only

- Kirin is redirected with Spiritual and Physical Energy (1:1 ratio)

- Amaterasu won't damage Obito

- Rasen shuriken won't damage Obito

- Amaterasu + Rasen shuriken won't damage Obito

- Ninjutsu won't damage Obito

- Rasengan is Ninjutsu

- Sempou Rasengan Damaged Obito

- Difference between Rasengan and Sempou Rasengan: Natural Energy

Deduction:

What really damaged Obito wasn't Naruto's Rasengan being a Senjutsu technique, but the technique having Nature energy inside.

This said, I conclude that Kirin not being Senjutsu CAN damage Obito.

Excellent post and I agree with your logic.

Mind if I add this to the OP?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Excellent post and I agree with your logic.

Mind if I add this to the OP?

I would be honored. Please go ahead.

 

[captainEO]

The only thing you're misunderstanding is ninjutsu, and it's probably due to bad translations.

Ninjutsu is ANY physically observable technique that uses ANY type of chakra. Hence senjutsu users still use ninjutsu, genjutsu etc. Naruto's Rasengan was both senjutsu AND ninjutsu

Also:
Kirin could be ninjutsu, if:

1. You consider chakra to mean energy, in which case natural energy is a type of chakra, hence Kirin would be classified as ninjutsu
2. You consider the typical/normal chakra Sasuke uses to shape and direct the lightning to be part of the technique, hence it would still be a ninjutsu, since it would be a technique partly crafted with chakra

Otherwise you're completely correct.

I'm almost 100% sure that we'll see Kirin in the next 2 chapters.

 

[Silverblade]

Kirin is composed entirely of natural energy, that's all I know.

Edit: Also, the databooks have proven to be fallible on many occasions.

Proof of Databook being fallible?

 

[H a n]

Eh.. Maybe. I understand what you are saying o.o

 

[adeshina365]

Proof of Databook being fallible?

The requirements for Susanoo. Though as CaptainEO has explained it could still be technically classified as ninjutsu (Naruto's SM Rasengan as well). Disregard that post.

The only thing you're misunderstanding is ninjutsu, and it's probably due to bad translations.

Ninjutsu is ANY physically observable technique that uses ANY type of chakra. Hence senjutsu users still use ninjutsu, genjutsu etc. Naruto's Rasengan was both senjutsu AND ninjutsu

Also:
Kirin could be ninjutsu, if:

1. You consider chakra to mean energy, in which case natural energy is a type of chakra, hence Kirin would be classified as ninjutsu
2. You consider the typical/normal chakra Sasuke uses to shape and direct the lightning to be part of the technique, hence it would still be a ninjutsu, since it would be a technique partly crafted with chakra

Otherwise you're completely correct.

I'm almost 100% sure that we'll see Kirin in the next 2 chapters.

Thanks for the clarification.