[VS] Killer Bee vs EMS Sasuke

[Varrah]

But it is. Itachi did use Kagutuschi, he simply never got as far as Sasuke with it. It's rather clear to all it has the -ton suffix, like all nature elements. You can't use Enton without an ending, yet all the endings displayed that manipulate the black flames are Kagutsuchi (by Sasuke). All Kagutsuchi's are done with the right eye, and it shows noticeable strain. When Sasuke turned off the flames from Karin, it was his right eye that once again, showed strain [

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]. He wouldn't have required his right eye to put them out had it not been a form of Kagutsuchi in the way it was there, he's

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here and

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, Kagutsuchi is always utilised with the right eye.

Enton is the chakra nature of Amaterasu; and thus, is the black flames of Amaterasu in a similar matter to how Fūton, as the chakra nature Fūton: Rasengan [

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] is the wind in the Rasengan and designated as the Rasengan’s Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation and group within the class Wind Release or Fūton alongside other techniques that have the same disposition such as Danzō’s Fūton: Shinkūha. [

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] Amaterasu is the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton and at this point (chapter 695), the lone Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton; Kagutsuchi is Keitai Henka or shape transformation, the ability to control the potency of chakra. [

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] Kagutsuchi is at times prefixed with Enton because it is a categorization of Enton. [

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] Dōryoku is eye power, and dōryoku’s are peculiar in nature because they manipulate the tenketsu around the eye to use jutsu. Amaterasu is Sasuke’s left eye’s dōryoku, and Kagutsuchi is Sasuke’s right eye’s dōryoku. Amaterasu as the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton is a technique which ignites amorphous Enton concentrically; Kagutsuchi as the Keitai Henka or shape transformation of Enton pulls the Enton from Amaterasu as it is in its startup frames(hence the prefix of Enton)to perform in whatever matter Sasuke wants it to.


Itachi cannot use Kagutsuchi as Itachi does not have the dōryoku: Kagutsuchi; it is not a power of Itachi’s Mangekyō Sharingan, these are Tsukyomi and Amaterasu. Itachi is however able to smother or turn off Enton by using Amaterasu; that is, the authority Amaterasu has over Enton as its Seishitsu Henka would allow Itachi the prospect to end Enton in a similar matter to how Madara can use a Katon based jutsu and choose to turn it off when it no longer suites the situation. It’s a matter of knowledge and awareness on the caster’s part.
​

Even Tobirama demonstrated that he's seen it before [

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].

This example does not support your argument as the logical validity of this specific premise is false; that is, the premise, statement, claim, proposition—whatever you want to use—is a bifurcation which presumes the distinction that Kagutsuchi is intimately bound to the right eye despite the fact that other alternatives exist such as the very visual power or dōryoku of the individual who awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan could cause it to appear in the opposite eye.​

Seems to me like every Amateratsu user has a form of Enton that comes along Amateratsu itself.

This is not matter of possibilities, but factually—every Amaterasu user has Enton because Amaterasu is the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton, much like how every user that has Doton: Moguragakure or Hiding Like a Mole [

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] is a Doton or Earth user.​

 

[Apêx1]

Spoiler

Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's Mangekyo jutsu. Itachi has two as well and Kagutsuchi is not one of them. Enton is nothing but the name of the black flame itself. Amaterasu is the jutsu that spawns them, and Kagutsuchi is the jutsu that manipulates them. Itachi has "Enton" because he can use Amaterasu, manipulating them is something completely different.


-Sasuke used

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to turn off the flames. That is just an ability granted by having Amaterasu.

Itachi doesn't have Kagutsuchi, that's Sasuke's ocular power. Its not some supplement to Amaterasu, its a completely separate ability.

Enton is the chakra nature of Amaterasu; and thus, is the black flames of Amaterasu in a similar matter to how Fūton, as the chakra nature Fūton: Rasengan [

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] is the wind in the Rasengan and designated as the Rasengan’s Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation and group within the class Wind Release or Fūton alongside other techniques that have the same disposition such as Danzō’s Fūton: Shinkūha. [

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] Amaterasu is the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton and at this point (chapter 695), the lone Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton; Kagutsuchi is Keitai Henka or shape transformation, the ability to control the potency of chakra. [

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] Kagutsuchi is at times prefixed with Enton because it is a categorization of Enton. [

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] Dōryoku is eye power, and dōryoku’s are peculiar in nature because they manipulate the tenketsu around the eye to use jutsu. Amaterasu is Sasuke’s left eye’s dōryoku, and Kagutsuchi is Sasuke’s right eye’s dōryoku. Amaterasu as the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton is a technique which ignites amorphous Enton concentrically; Kagutsuchi as the Keitai Henka or shape transformation of Enton pulls the Enton from Amaterasu as it is in its startup frames(hence the prefix of Enton)to perform in whatever matter Sasuke wants it to.


Itachi cannot use Kagutsuchi as Itachi does not have the dōryoku: Kagutsuchi; it is not a power of Itachi’s Mangekyō Sharingan, these are Tsukyomi and Amaterasu. Itachi is however able to smother or turn off Enton by using Amaterasu; that is, the authority Amaterasu has over Enton as its Seishitsu Henka would allow Itachi the prospect to end Enton in a similar matter to how Madara can use a Katon based jutsu and choose to turn it off when it no longer suites the situation. It’s a matter of knowledge and awareness on the caster’s part.
​

This example does not support your argument as the logical validity of this specific premise is false; that is, the premise, statement, claim, proposition—whatever you want to use—is a bifurcation which presumes the distinction that Kagutsuchi is intimately bound to the right eye despite the fact that other alternatives exist such as the very visual power or dōryoku of the individual who awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan could cause it to appear in the opposite eye.​

This is not matter of possibilities, but factually—every Amaterasu user has Enton because Amaterasu is the Seishitsu Henka or nature transformation of Enton, much like how every user that has Doton: Moguragakure or Hiding Like a Mole [

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] is a Doton or Earth user.​

Conceded.gggggggggg

 

[Bogard]

Could go either way

 

[RustledJimmies]

It needs Naruto's chakra to jump at the speed and height you said it'll jump as back up for your claim. You are using a feat from an enhanced Susanoo to say he'll blitz B before he enters Bijuu Mode again. I shouldn't have had to explain that. Obviously it can jump on its own.

Since when does Naruto's chakra increase the mobility of the jutsu ? this is sounding even worse than the people saying that the cloak is what allowed him to unlock another level of Susano'o, it doesn't make sense at all.

And why would he do that if he doesn't know that B is going to feint? Not to mention using an Enton Arrow/Blade requires him to use Kagutsuchi, nothing implies he can use both at the same time.

I don't see any knowledge being specified in the OP, so I'm assuming he has manga intel, and since he's already been tricked before, he would be careful not to fall for it again, so he doesn't know he's gonna use it, but it's a way to prevent it from happening.

And what in the actual fack are you implying with the bold ?

>casts Amaterasu
>Uses Enton orb to create the arrow while Bee is burning

He's already shown to be able to use Kagutsuchi to control Amaterasu after it's been fired, so what stops him from creating an arrow/blade with the Enton orb immediately after he fires it ? Is this even KidGamer anymore ?

He jumps at the tentacle, B comes out and blows him up with Bijuu Dama, its that simple. Unless Sasuke's Susanoo has some kind of special

Bee isn't a sensor, so how is he even knowing that Sasuke is coming in the tentacle's direction if he is inside the tentacle ? and how is he transforming into a full Bijuu if he is inside a tentacle ? he's always came out of the tentacle in base, no reason to believe otherwise in this situation.

Kyuubi Chakra Cloak makes jutsu overall stronger. That's it. Susanoo got overall stronger, which includes its speed. If Susanoo gets stronger, it overall gets stronger, not just two areas of it. If we went by your made up definition of the cloak's power, we'd be saying V3 Susanoo=KCC enhanced V3 Susanoo in durability, which is false as KCC enhanced Susanoo tanked something much stronger than Danzo's Fuuton. And lol? Not a speed feat? Jumping from one distance to another in a short amount of time is speed. Jumping that high is speed and strength. You referenced it as a speed feat.

It's a fact that the cloak increases a jutsu's power and size, it has absolutely has NOTHING to do with jumping, jumping is jumping, Susano'o has shown be able to jump that high, you still haven't given a valid reason on why it would make him jump higher. Just because Sasuke had a KCM cloak with him, it doesn't mean that every feat in invalid just because he had it , what's next ? Are you gonna say that he can't use V3 legged Susano'o because Naruto's chakra was ith him and thus he can't use it and the feat is invalid ? Please Lol.

Also, my mistake, I meant to say foot speed.

Are you really going to deny that this is a speed feat? When you yourself referenced it as one?

Stop using feats from an enhanced Susanoo. I shouldn't have to explain that it can obviously jump, just not as fast or as far as an enhanced Susanoo.

Read above.

What the... ? That's the only time he used a legged V3, you have given no reason as to why it wouldn't be able to jump that far on its own, your only reasons are "He had Naruto's cloak, so invalid", when jumping doesn't have anything to do with the cloak, at all.

The tentacles being bigger makes it impossible for him to target all of them at once.

Once again, when did I say he would cut them all at once, please, re-read my previous post.

1. Who said B needs to exit the tentacle first? Oh wait, you, not me.

So, he's figting inside a tentacle ? Lol, he needs to get out of it if he wants fight.

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B enters Bijuu Mode with a Bijuu Dama ready and blows Sasuke ass to kingdom come. There is no "Charge a Bijuu Dama" phase. You are only making it worse for yourself if you start using his sword, which requires his Susanoo to blitz B and cut in half before he can instantly enter Bijuu Mode, which is a load of nonsense. Especially since you have no speed feats for his Susanoo that let you say he'll blitz B.

Sasuke fires his arrow, B instantly enters Bijuu Mode and blows Sasuke up. Either the Bijuu Dama plows through the arrow, or B gets hit and lives while Sasuke dies.

What the... ? Are we really saying that Bee's Bijuu Dama takes no charge ? I never said it takes a long time to charge but he still has to charge it, the fact that the Bijuu Dama was in his mouth indicates that he just charged it or is still charging it.

He still has to get out of his tentacle and I believe Bee isn't a sensor, so he isn't knowing Sasuke is coming if he is inside the tentacle, so no reason to come out already in BM (in fact, he can't even do it, after all, I'm pretty sure full Hachibi doesn't fit inside its tentacles) with a BD charged, which means he still has to realize Sasuke is coming and then enter Bijuu mode to charge and fire a BD, or react fast enough to grab it without getting his hand cut.

It shouldn't be hard to blitz an opponent who isn't a sensor, that is inside a tentacle and you know where they are going to come out from, resulting in you advancing before they actually come out.

Bee won't even come out in BM, Sasuke fires the arrow and Bee will still have to go BM and charge/fire Bijuu Dama while Sasuke has already fired the arrow, unless Bee has some kind of sensing that I'm not aware about, he isn't reacting to it in time.

Being able to pierce something doesn't mean you can cut it in half. Pretty sure I already stated this. Then again, B is never g

Funny how you completely ignored the Kagutsuchi spikes point

so B can't instantly enter Bijuu Mode before Sasuke's hits him with an arrow or a sword, even though Danzo reacted to the same arrow with Mokuton? Really now?

So, he comes out of a tentacle, and is reacting to Sasuke coming at his direction even before he actually comes out or an arrow that's already been fired, goes BM and counterattacks before either of the aforementioned attacks hit him ? Lol stop. Danzo saw the arrow even before it was fired, and when Sasuke fired it, he saw it, and even then he still could barely react and resorted to Mokuton as he didn't even time to make hand seals, yet you say Bee is entering BM and charging a Bijuu Dama before the arrow hits him, even though he comes out of a tentacle (inside of which he can't predict Sasuke's attack) after the arrow's been fired. Seems legit.

Then the point flew above your head. He entered Bijuu Mode with his Bijuu Dama ready. That's the main point.

Already countered.

 

[King Of Pop]

damn, missed debate here. i literally dont see how bee beats sasuke esp with Enton and amaterasu which is hes main downfall, dont see it at all.

no, bee can do that on his own

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whatever, once bee entres BM ,he would win
even if sasuke cough hachibi with amaterasu, he can kill sasuke with 4 or 5 bijudomas ,then cut one of hachibi tails like he did in this scan, and finally get out through this cut tail

bee wins high diff

so bee charegs a bijuu dama while being in amaterasu flames? are you implying it would ignore the pain and continue which is funny as i remember it screaming like a b in canon. intel is prolly manga so tentacle trick aint fooling sasuke especially a second as he knows about it as ill explain.

v1 and v2 are irrelevant here as sasuke would protect himself with soosano so cqc attacks are futile. v1 was dodged in canon so its irrelevant, if he fights sasuke in that form he gets killed with amaterasu. sasuke tracked down juubito and had the reactions to tag him so v2 is a joke near him as he would track bees movement easily and strike him. manifesting an orb with his v2 sasuke can use

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to keep bee at bay or he hits him with it him if bee decides to attack head on, bee also stands a great risk of getting cut down with Enton blade once sasuke tracks him down and directs his sword at him. all in all v2 is no problem and the only way for bee to remotely threaten sasuke is with bijju dama in which he goes bm and thats were sasuke takes control.

once bee goes Bm sasuke immediately

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. this time sasuke can

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which cover parts that are not touched. bees only hope of escaping is through his tentacle like he did before except this time sasukes eyes would be alert and any tentacle cut would be immediately jumped on by sasuke either through soosano arrows which would pierce right through it and kill bee or enton arrows which would light it up in flames, or sasuke can direct

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which would burn and effectively kill off bee. sasuke can also proceed to take the root of moving towards it and chopping it down with soosano sword or enton blade.

sasuke mid dif.

 

[Benjamin King]

I can't believe this is still being debated. Bee stomps him, plain and simple.

 

[TRE MERCER]

L0l @ people saying Sasuke can't make enton spikes without having RC. Gasping at straws completely. The meaning of Enton is basically the manipulation of Amaterasu so what your people are saying is he got better manipulation skills? Smhhh stop. I guess if Gaara manipulated his sand into a cage or something when he had Shukaku he couldn't replicate that same cage without Shukaku huh?

Another scene how Sasuke could take this. Sasuke summons Manda and Aoda to tear base Bee apart while he takes flight via Hawk and cast Amaterasu on Bee from the skies. The Snake duo would push bee to his limits alone then so he'll be force to go full Hachibi Susanoo arrow through the face game over. Way to many outcomes of Sasuke winning this.

his head wasnʻt hit, after he fell into the water, it spread to his head.

never said the hachibi dodges. this time, bee blocked it even better using only tentacles instead of arms. Since when has sasuke shown the ability to use enton spikes at a range of more than a couple of meters away from his body?

hashiramaʻs buddah is the upgraded version of his mokujin which caught a bijuudama, thatʻs the only reason one can argue that it can catch a bijuudama and throw it back. PS isnʻt a mokuton that has anti-bijuu properties, let alone a mokuton that has been shown to shut down full kurama with a touch to the head. It doesnʻt get mokujinʻs bijuudama catching feats.

Head was clearly caught not even going to bother to post the same scan. Also Amaterasu can be casted at a certain part of the body as well seeing as Itachi casted it on the dogs heads.(

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). With that being said Sasuke can easily target his face for the insta-finish. Blocking it via tentacles why are you keep bringing up this argument when he did it and cannon and it faild horribly. Give me a scan suggesting it can only be used close range. Let's throw the catches Bijuudama argument out of the window seeing as Sasuke has multiple ways of evading a Bijuudama.

Sasuke could have easily made an opening in his susanoo in order to fire that katon and weʻve never have seen it. Weʻve seen that he jumps out of his susanoo in order to hit danzou with amaterasu, weʻve seen madara fires his katons through the openings in his susanoo ribcages. Until explicitly shown, he doesnʻt get to fire amaterasu without making an opening in his susanoo.

Based on what did the P-ups he got from rikkudou not give him advanced enton or amaterasu feats? He and naruto are both powered by rikudouʻs chakra all of their feats are not indicative of what they are normally capable of, especially new feats that blow the old ones completely out of the water.


Yeah, he manipulated it with an EMS powered by rikudouʻs chakra. What happened when Sasukeʻs MS got powered by rikudouʻs chakra? He got kamui chidori, a rikudou PS, and could fire kamui shurikens.

Not even going to bother to reply to the first have of this post seeing as i posted i manga scan and you still denied it. Countered everything else above. Those were new abilities Kakashi displayed manipulated Amaterasu was the sole purpose of having Enton. Try again

 

[KidGamer65]

Since when does Naruto's chakra increase the mobility of the jutsu ? this is sounding even worse than the people saying that the cloak is what allowed him to unlock another level of Susano'o, it doesn't make sense at all.

It increases the Susanoo's overall power. Including its physical capabilities. Speed is one of them. No one is talking about "mobility" here. Its mobility remains the same, it just isn't as fast or as strong. This isn't rocket science. Its sad that I have to actually explain this to you.

-Susanoo gets stronger and faster.
-Susanoo can jump father because of the increased strength and speed.

A kid would have been able to get this shit by now, yet 2 posts later and we are still debating it.

I don't see any knowledge being specified in the OP, so I'm assuming he has manga intel, and since he's already been tricked before, he would be careful not to fall for it again, so he doesn't know he's gonna use it, but it's a way to prevent it from happening.

Intel is irrelevant anyway.

>casts Amaterasu
>Uses Enton orb to create the arrow while Bee is burning

He's already shown to be able to use Kagutsuchi to control Amaterasu after it's been fired, so what stops him from creating an arrow/blade with the Enton orb immediately after he fires it ? Is this even KidGamer anymore ?

The way you worded it implied he'd do it at the same time.

-Sasuke uses Amaterasu.
-B cuts off his tentacle while Sasuke creates the arrow.
-Then he bursts out and kills Sasuke with Bijuu Dama.

Bee isn't a sensor, so how is he even knowing that Sasuke is coming in the tentacle's direction if he is inside the tentacle ? and how is he transforming into a full Bijuu if he is inside a tentacle ? he's always came out of the tentacle in base, no reason to believe otherwise in this situation.

Who cares if he knows whether or not Sasuke is coming toward the tentacle? His immediate reaction will be to nuke Sasuke with Bijuu Dama whether or not Sasuke is sitting there or coming at him. He'll see Sasuke once he comes out. If you thought that B was going to sit there, well, you are sadly mistaken.

Lol, is this a joke or something? Its getting hard to take you seriously with some of these replies.

-Two times he's ended up in a situation where he's had to use the Octopus Clone Feint, and both times he wasn't in combat. Why in the world would he need to come out in Bijuu Mode?

-If he is in a tentacle, he enters Bijuu Mode, and busts out of the tentacle due to the sheer size of his transformation. Why am I explaining this again?

It's a fact that the cloak increases a jutsu's power and size, it has absolutely has NOTHING to do with jumping, jumping is jumping, Susano'o has shown be able to jump that high, you still haven't given a valid reason on why it would make him jump higher. Just because Sasuke had a KCM cloak with him, it doesn't mean that every feat in invalid just because he had it , what's next ? Are you gonna say that he can't use V3 legged Susano'o because Naruto's chakra was ith him and thus he can't use it and the feat is invalid ? Please Lol.

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Kifflom went full retard in our last debate and it seems you are following suit. Why do you think anything jumps high? Because of physical strength. Why do you think things jump fast? Because of physical speed. Susanoo gets boosted, and gets overall stronger. Including traits like durability, which shits on your little made up assumption of the cloak only increasing strength and size. KCC increased the physical speed, physical strength, and durability of the Susanoo, thus its physical abilities can't be given to a Susanoo that is fodder in comparison.

Sasuke's Susanoo when powered up has been shown to jump that high. No other variant has been shown to have physical capabilities on par with his Susanoo when enhanced with the Kyuubi Chakra Cloak.

Why am I explaining this again?

@underlined bold: :| Lol, log out.

Also, my mistake, I meant to say foot speed.

How does your post even begin to reference foot speed when you mentioned Susanoo?

Read above.

What the... ? That's the only time he used a legged V3, you have given no reason as to why it wouldn't be able to jump that far on its own, your only reasons are "He had Naruto's cloak, so invalid", when jumping doesn't have anything to do with the cloak, at all.

Is this is joke? I've explained, with this post, twice now, why his Susanoo can jump higher and faster, yet my only reason is "He had Naruto's cloak, invalid?" Lol, lets not do this. I feel like I'm talking to someone who hasn't ever had a science class. Jumping is physical strength. Jumping fast is physical speed. Both are increased by the cloak along with all of Susanoo's other attributes, so guess what? Jumping power is increased as well.

Once again, when did I say he would cut them all at once, please, re-read my previous post.

I never said you did. I said that all of them will charge at him and try to restrain his Susanoo, you replied with "He'll cut his hand" which makes no sense as I never once said he'll use his hand to restrain Sasuke, so he needs to be able to cut all of them to not get restrained, and that isn't happening.

So, he's figting inside a tentacle ? Lol, he needs to get out of it if he wants fight.

No shit. He doesn't need to exit it like he's done in the manga, he can blow it up.

What the... ? Are we really saying that Bee's Bijuu Dama takes no charge ? I never said it takes a long time to charge but he still has to charge it, the fact that the Bijuu Dama was in his mouth indicates that he just charged it or is still charging it.

He entered the mode and the Bijuu Dama was formed. Take it as you will, but I'm not going to debate over what was clearly shown in manga panels. And no he wasn't still charging it, as he used that same sized Bijuu Dama to attack, thus it was complete.

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Whatever he did, its fast enough to blow Sasuke to kingdom come, so I don't really care about the specifics.

He still has to get out of his tentacle and I believe Bee isn't a sensor, so he isn't knowing Sasuke is coming if he is inside the tentacle,

Doesn't need to. He already knows that Bijuu Dama is the only thing that can take Sasuke out so he has no reason not to come out with one ready to kill him.

so no reason to come out already in BM (in fact, he can't even do it, after all, I'm pretty sure full Hachibi doesn't fit inside its tentacles) with a BD charged,

That's why when he transforms, the tentacle will burst open. Unless you think the tentacle is strong enough to hold a Bijuu inside without breaking. This is the same exact concept as Naruto summoning Gamabunta in Gaara's sand. Why are we questioning this?

which means he still has to realize Sasuke is coming and then enter Bijuu mode to charge and fire a BD, or react fast enough to grab it without getting his hand cut.

Or, knowing that Sasuke

It shouldn't be hard to blitz an opponent who isn't a sensor, that is inside a tentacle and you know where they are going to come out from, resulting in you advancing before they actually come out.

No, it'd be hard to blitz someone who is going to enter his full Bijuu Mode and kill his opponent regardless of what his opponent does. Why the hell would B sit there, twiddle his thumbs

Bee won't even come out in BM,

Because he won't come out ready to nuke Sasuke when he knows trying to charge his Bijuu Dama while engaged with him will be too hard because of the latter's quick moves...

What is this nonsense? You are going to need to explain to me, with valid evidence, why B can't do what I said he can do.

Sasuke fires the arrow and Bee will still have to go BM and charge/fire Bijuu Dama while Sasuke has already fired the arrow, unless Bee has some kind of sensing that I'm not aware about, he isn't reacting to it in time.

Or, the moment the tentacle falls, B bursts out with a Bijuu Dama ready and blows Sasuke up. He doesn't need to know where he is since he won't be firing the Bijuu Dama until he's out, nor does he need to be able to see Sasuke to know that he has to kill him.

Funny how you completely ignored the Kagutsuchi spikes point

Fine, I'll give you that.

So, he comes out of a tentacle, and is reacting to Sasuke coming at his direction even before he actually comes out or an arrow that's already been fired, goes BM and counterattacks before either of the aforementioned attacks hit him ?

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You are trying your hardest to make it seem like B needs to know that Sasuke is coming at him, when him doing what I said he'll do isn't a reaction to Sasuke's attack, its something he'll do regardless of what Sasuke does. Once again, this is not rocket science.

Lol stop. Danzo saw the arrow even before it was fired, and when Sasuke fired it, he saw it, and even then he still could barely react and resorted to Mokuton as he didn't even time to make hand seals,

Irrelevant as B can do the same thing.

]yet you say Bee is entering BM and charging a Bijuu Dama before the arrow hits him

He entered Bijuu Mode with the attack charged in the manga.

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just

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who also charges up Bijuu

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So no shit he'll enter Bijuu Mode with a Dama ready before the arrow hits him.

even though he comes out of a tentacle (inside of which he can't predict Sasuke's attack) after the arrow's been fired. Seems legit.

And once again, why does he need to "predict" his attack coming to act? Oh wait, he doesn't. Just something else you made up so B doesn't obliterate Sasuke. What I said B will do is what he'll do once he has the chance (Which is pretty much any time he wants) not something he'll do as a response to Sasuke's jutsu.

Even then, if the arrow hits him, he lives, while Sasuke dies from Bijuu Dama.

Comprehend the bold before you reply again.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Someone debate this with me...

 

[Haizaki]

Lol Kidgamer's post had me rolling hahahaha

 

[RustledJimmies]

I was going to reply, but since the mocks and insults started coming out, I'll just stop.

Not to mention even with the billions of explanations you still don't get my point, though I will admit that I was wrong in some points, such as the speed/jump point.

 

[QdonEms]

V3 susanoo is more than enough for bee. Enton sword and arrow should do the trick.

Sasuke low-mid diff.

 

[KidGamer65]

I was going to reply, but since the mocks and insults started coming out, I'll just stop.

Not to mention even with the billions of explanations you still don't get my point.

Is the bold really coming from you? The irony is strong...lol. Too strong. I get your points, and they are ridiculous.

-You keep saying that the cloak increasing the jumping power of the Susanoo "makes no sense" even though I've explained twice now, only to get "You have no explanation" as a reply. This is where the irony stems from, because I've explained how this works twice, and you keep saying the same thing over and over again.

-You keep saying that B won't react to the arrow in time thus he won't come out of his tentacle, even though he doesn't need to know about Sasuke attacking him to attack Sasuke.

-You said that B will come out of the tentacle in his human form (Lol?) based on him doing so in the manga, even though those times were when he wasn't in battle.

 

[Kamui Sama]

By portrayal EMS sauce should take it but by feats its close I guess. In general I think hype and manga portrayal should play a role in VS. situations but it makes sense that feats are the biggest indicators for the Colosseum matchups.

 

[RustledJimmies]

Is the bold really coming from you? The irony is strong...lol. Too strong. I get your points, and they are ridiculous.

I admit I misunderstood some of your points, some of them are correct, such as the speed/jump point, but still, some are wrong, such as Bee coming out of the tentacle and firing Bijuu Dama before the arrow reaches him.

-You keep saying that the cloak increasing the jumping power of the Susanoo "makes no sense" even though I've explained twice now, only to get "You have no explanation" as a reply. This is where the irony stems from, because I've explained how this works twice, and you keep saying the same thing over and over again.

I conceded that point in the edit of the same post you just quoted.

-You keep saying that B won't react to the arrow in time thus he won't come out of his tentacle, even though he doesn't need to know about Sasuke attacking him to attack Sasuke.

Still, he isn't charging (even though the charge time is short) and firing a Bijuu Dama if the arrow is already on his way.

-You said that B will come out of the tentacle in his human form (?) based on him doing so in the manga, even though those times were when he wasn't in battle.

I admit I didn't think about bursting the tentacle in the first place, but still, as soon as he transforms, the tentacle will burst due to the Hachibi's sheer size, which means that the tentacle will burst even before he starts charging Bijuu Dama, as it requires to be in full Hachibi mode in order to use Bijuu Dama, meaning that he charges it after he transforms, not during the transformation, so as soon as the tentacle bursts (or rather, as Bee transforms), Sasuke shoots the arrow, while Bee still has the short charge time for Bijuu Dama and then needs to fire it. Even if that doesn't work, Sasuke can always use Amaterasu again and then fire the arrow prepped beforehand or control the Amaterasu that is beside Bee (the first Amaterasu, if Bee cuts his tentacle, it will fall right beside Hachibi's body, and when he comes out, Amaterasu will be beside him) and makes spikes out of it to pierce Bee, and once they pierce, Bee will be immobilised with the pain again and then Sasuke makes spikes from the spikes (yes, it may sound confusing) that pierce Bee from inside, and thus kills Bee from the inside.

Now that I think of it, Sasuke can make those spikes from the first Amaterasu, so all that mess is not even needed ._.

 

[KidGamer65]

I admit I misunderstood some of your points, some of them are correct, such as the speed/jump point, but still, some are wrong, such as Bee coming out of the tentacle and firing Bijuu Dama before the arrow reaches him.

That is spot on. An arrow isn't going to travel faster than the time it takes for that same arrow to be simply fired. B charges and fires Bijuu Dama at speeds equal to the prep and firing of Susanoo Arrow. He either fires after and plows through the arrow, or he simply tanks the arrow and blows Sasuke to bits.

Still, he isn't charging (even though the charge time is short) and firing a Bijuu Dama if the arrow is already on his way.

No reason why he can't, all that means is that

I admit I didn't think about bursting the tentacle in the first place, but still, as soon as he transforms, the tentacle will burst due to the Hachibi's sheer size, which means that the tentacle will burst even before he starts charging Bijuu Dama, as he requires to be in full Hachibi mode in order to use Bijuu Dama, meaning that he charges it after he transforms, not during the transformation, so as soon as the tentacle bursts (or rather, as Bee transforms), Sasuke shoots the arrow, while Bee still has the short charge time for Bijuu Dama and then needs to fire it.

I already posted a scan of him entering Bijuu Mode with a Bijuu Dama practically charged up, so by the time the tentacle bursts, his Bijuu Dama will be ready, then he fires it. I already posted scans that prove he can charge up and fire Bijuu Dama as fast as Susanoo arrows can be fired. So he fires the Bijuu Dama at the arrow coming his way and then the Dama plows through the arrow and blows Sasuke up.

Or he takes the arrow, fires Bijuu Dama and still blows Sasuke up.

Even if that doesn't work, Sasuke can always use Amaterasu again and then fire the arrow prepped beforehand or control the Amaterasu that is beside Bee (the first Amaterasu, if Bee cuts his tentacle, it will fall right beside Hachibi's body, and when he comes out, Amaterasu will be beside him) and makes spikes out of it to pierce Bee, and once they pierce, Bee will be immobilised with the pain again and then Sasuke makes spikes from the spikes (yes, it may sound confusing) that pierces Bee, and thus kills Bee from the inside.

Then B blocks LoS with his tentacles, just how he did when he first fought Sasuke, and then fires the Bijuu Dama. B is in pain until he switches out with a clone and Sasuke winds up dead.

If B gets hit directly, and somehow Bijuu Dama fails, despite already being charged up (Which it won't anyway), B cuts his tentacle like you say he will, then he bursts out again and blows Sasuke up since Sasuke needs to have his chakra or his physical body making contact with Enton in order to use Kagutsuchi on it. He can't use Amaterasu on B, and then change its shape. Every single time without exception, Kagutsuchi has been used when Sasuke has contact via his chakra or his body.

-Against Ay, he had contact with Susanoo.

-All his Susanoo Kagutsuchi have contact with Susanoo.

-When he used it without Susanoo, he used it with his hand.

-When he used it against Kaguya, he used Amaterasu on his hand first, then he used Kagutsuchi.

No matter how you slice it, Sasuke can't stop Bijuu Dama from happening.

 

[KidGamer65]

By portrayal EMS sauce should take it but by feats its close I guess. In general I think hype and manga portrayal should play a role in VS. situations but it makes sense that feats are the biggest indicators for the Colosseum matchups.

What portrayal puts B below EMS Sasuke w/o Perfect Susanoo?

 

[RustledJimmies]

I'll actually drop my initial arrow point, as it's not really needed, but still, when Sasuke used Amaterasu in the first time, Bee couldn't cut the tentacle by himself for a reason, because the pain immobilised him, the only reason he escaped was because Sasuke cut his tentacle to save Karin, I'm not saying he will burn to death, even if he somehow cut his tentacles, he would be immobilised long enough for Sasuke to transform Amaterasu into spikes and from the spikes that are inside Bee, create more spikes and pierce him from inside.

Also, what is this "Kagutsuchi requires Sasuke to be in contact with the flames" ? I'm pretty sure it was stated that he controls it with his right eye, while he fires Amaterasu with his left, meaning that he only needs to control it with his eyes, this contact with Sasuke is BS that was never stated nor implied in the manga. Also, Amaterasu burns whatever the user focuses on, and it's already been shown that it can follow the target if the user focuses on the running target, so why wouldn't the same be applied to Kagutsuchi ?

 

[KidGamer65]

I'll actually drop my initial arrow point, as it's not really needed, but still, when Sasuke used Amaterasu in the first time, Bee couldn't cut the tentacle by himself for a reason, because the pain immobilised him, the only reason he escaped was because Sasuke cut his tentacle to save Karin, I'm not saying he will burn to death, even if he somehow cut his tentacles, he would be immobilised log enough for Sasuke to transform Amaterasu into spikes and from the spikes that are inside Bee, create more spikes and pierce him from inside.

Immobilized? He wasn't immobilized at all. He was just in pain. B didn't do anything because that'd defeat the purpose of his plan, pretend that he got beaten by Taka so that he can escape form the village. Cutting off his own tentacle only makes it clear that he's trying to do something. Sasuke cutting it off for him doesn't imply anything of the sort, thus B makes his escape.

Also, what is this "Kagutsuchi requires Sasuke to be in contact with the flames" ? I'm pretty sure it was stated that he controls it with his right eye, while he fires Amaterasu with his left, meaning that he only needs to control it with his eyes, this contact with Sasuke is BS that was never stated nor implied in the manga. Also, Amaterasu burns whatever the user focuses on, and it's already been shown that it can follow the target if the user focuses on the running target, so wy wouldn't the same be applied to Kagutsuchi ?

It was outright shown. When you can show me Sasuke manipulating flames he isn't in contact with, then we can talk. Because out of the dozens of times he's used it in the manga, its ALWAYS been through his Susanoo or his body. No exceptions whatsoever. Even in cases where it would have benefited him greatly to control flames he wasn't in contact with, Ay is a perfect example. I have no reason to believe it works any other way. All you need to do is show me him controlling flames he wasn't in contact with and I'll give you this point, otherwise..nope. Its not happening.

Kagutsuchi isn't Amaterasu, why would you give Kagutsuchi Amaterasu's mechanics?

 

[RustledJimmies]

Immobilized? He wasn't immobilized at all. He was just in pain. B didn't do anything because that'd defeat the purpose of his plan, pretend that he got beaten by Taka so that he can escape form the village. Cutting off his own tentacle only makes it clear that he's trying to do something. Sasuke cutting it off for him doesn't imply anything of the sort, thus B makes his escape.

True, forgot about that, but still, we saw in how much pain he was, so if he takes even a second to cut his tail, Sasuke uses the spikes and kills him, even if he cuts his tail, it would be quite useless as Bee would still have Amaterasu on his tails allowing Sasuke to use Amaterasu to get him with even more ease, especially if he used them to block Amaterasu as you stated, and if he used BM and bursted out of the tentacle, he would be already on fire.

It was outright shown. When you can show me Sasuke manipulating flames he isn't in contact with, then we can talk. Because out of the dozens of times he's used it in the manga, its ALWAYS been through his Susanoo or his body. No exceptions whatsoever. Even in cases where it would have benefited him greatly to control flames he wasn't in contact with, Ay is a perfect example. I have no reason to believe it works any other way. All you need to do is show me him controlling flames he wasn't in contact with and I'll give you this point, otherwise..nope. Its not happening.

Kagutsuchi isn't Amaterasu, why would you give Kagutsuchi Amaterasu's mechanics?

Shii/C/Shee/Cee or whatever you call him, outright stated that he controls it with his right eye, having contact with him has nothing to do with it.

What ? Kagutsuchi is the ability to control Amaterasu, or rather, giving other shapes to it. It isn't a whole new technique, the only difference is that he controls it with his other eye. He can "control" Amaterasu by making it follow his targets, Kagutsuchi follows a similar concept, the only differences are that he controls it with his other eye and that it gives Amaterasu other shapes (such as spikes, swords, etc.), there's absolutely no reason he would need contact with it if he controls it with his eyes, nor does it make sense.

I'll reply tomorrow if reply to this post.