The purpose of this thread is to try to find out what happened to Killer-Bee?
Simply, Killer-Bee died immediately, since Hachibi was extracted from him — and all jinchurikis that biju extracted from him died, whether short time later(ones that Uzumaki)and whether immediately(all those who not).
This conclusion would remain in effect, if not a single act that seen in
Note: as long as not stated otherwise, in purpose, I mean the purpose from the perspective of Hachibi and not the writer — Kishi.
1) Purpose — Saving the world
You could say that the goal is to save the world. Hachibi, realizing that he was going to sealed in the statue wanted to leave to the shinobi a means that can help them defeat Madara when he becomes the jinchuriki of jubbi(inevitable), the means was — his chakra. He knew, through the experience gained in the battle against Obito(as jinchuriki), that there is no direct way[=power vs. power] to defeat the junchuriki of jubbi(as of writing this post), and the only way to defeat him is by pulling the bijus chakra from him(or suction,
But this argument is difficult if we treat it from the perspective of Kishi. In
This option undermined but note denied completely, so we will consider the second option.
2) Purpose — Saving Killer-Bee
The timing of action(as Hachibi was about to extracted from Killer-Bee) implies that its has to do with saving Killer-Bee. But how exactly?
The Kyubi tell us that there is a way to save jinchuriki that experienced extraction: Re-sealing the biju that was extracted. We also learned from him that the biju we want to sealed dont have to be the same biju that was extracted, but is have to be a part from the complete biju(
Its safe to assume that also Hachibi know this knowledge.
If so, the emerging conclusion is that Killer-Bee could will be saved by this way.
But, the principal assumption is that Killer-Bee died instantly(any possibility in which Killer-Bee was experienced biju extraction and not died instantly will surprised me), because he is not a Uzumaki. Therefore this option rejected, and its show here only to protocol.
Clarification: Any suggestion that argued that the arm that was cut had a connection to saving Killer-Bee, have to answer the big question: Why Kyubi not act the same way to save Naruto? If it come down to an act as simple as cutting an arm, why Kyubi don't act this way? Why choose a complicated way(relative)? Why take a chance that Naruto will die?
In other words, any suggestion that explains how cutting the arm will save Killer-Bee have to explain also - why this explanation applied only to Hachibi and Killer-Bee, and not Kyubi and Naruto.
The discussion above assume that Hachibi was extracted from Killer-Bee, but what if it's not accurate? what if Hachibi doesn't extracted completely, what if Madara extract from killer-Bee only part of Hachibi and the other part still remains sealed in Killer-Bee?
This is actually the argument that I what to present in this thread. For convenience we decompose the argument to its basic claims and will establish them.
First of all, we explains about the fundamental difference between biju and chakra-organ(for our concern, the arm): the consciousness — biju does have consciousness, chakra-organ does not.
The basic argument: the arm that Hachibi cut is not only an arm(contains chakra), but a complete biju — another Hachibi, that remains sealed in Killer-Bee.
First, we will show that there are, in fact, two Hachibi — two biju(like the definition above) with Hachibi chakra.
Two: When the shinobi succeed to extracted the chakra of the bijus from obito, the chakra started to merge and manifest as biju. But, pay attention to Hachibi's chakra that was extracted, its not merged with Hachibi completely, as expected, but it merge into a Mini-Hachibi(
From this point,I will refer to Hachibi as 'Hachibi-Original' and to the other Hachibi as 'Hachibi-Mini', When there is a need to distinguish between them.
Consciousness: In chapter 655 Hachibi seen when is screaming. Legibly, we talk about Hachibi-Original, but the proportion between this size and the size of the Hachibi arm behind him and between the size of the bijus in the background, clearly proof that this Hachibi-Mini. If so, Hachibi-Mini can talk, what means he have a consciousness(
Independent: Now we have to disprove the claim that how is taking is Hachibi-Original through this arm.
When the four-tails thanks to Naruto for keeping this promise to save the bijus, the other bijus joins as well and thank to Naruto, each one on his way, for saving them. Bijus from one-tail to eight-tail thank to Naruto, but nine-tails is missing — why? Simple, because nine-tails was never sealed in the statue, only this chakra(not biju) sealed. But, if so, why Hachibi thanks to Naruto, he also never sealed in the statue(only this chakra)? The answer is, the one that thanks to Naruto is not Hachibi-Original(that never sealed, only his chakra) but Hachibi-Mini(that was sealed in the statue)(
The complete argument: The arm that Hachibi-Original cut is in fact the same Mini-Hachibi that extracted from Obito. When Hachibi cut his arm[=Hachibi-Mini] this separates himself from Hachibi-Mini so that Madara extract only him, and Hachibi-Mini remains sealed in Killer-Bee.
From chapter 656 and so on Hachibi-Mini does not seen(as of writing this post), and it is likely that he merged with Hachibi-Original and transformed to an arm. The nature of this merging must be understood. I have already shown that he has a consciousness. It is not reasonable to say that now, once they merged — there are two consciousness to one body, that why I assume that there is only one consciousness, and that the consciousness of Hachibi-Mini united with the consciousness of Hachibi-Original what create a one united consciousness.
The problem with this assumption is that if they merged — how it is possible to separate them only by using a physical action without some technique?
This question led me to assume that on some level there was a separation between the two Hachibi, namely — the merging between them was a partially. The merger took place in such a way that created a single unified consciousness but at the same time the individuality of them saved(One can understand the merger more like a connection between the two entities and not fusion between the two entities).
This way allows the separation not by using a technique of any kind, but only through physical action(if the separation did not exist on some level, as a given, it necessary to use an separation technique or the separation cant be done).
Support for this claim can be found in
Now the big question above must be answered, The answer must explain how Kyubi is different from Hachibi.
The fundamental reason that allowed the rescue of Killer-Bee is the existence of Hachibi-Mini, So we have to find out why Kyubi's chakra that was extracted from Obito was not formed to Mini-Kyubi, as happened with Hachibi(Although you can not see that it did not happen, because that Kyubi's chakra is outside the frame, I assumed that it did not happen as long as I haven't seen it).
One suggestion could be that there is a difference between the Kyubi's chakra and the extracted Kyubi-chakra: The first — yang, and the second — yin and yang, and perhaps this difference is preventing the formation of the extracted Kyubi-chakra to Mini-Kyubi. This proposal is difficult because we known that both the Kyubi shared chakra with each other.
Another proposal, there is a different between the way that Kyubi's chakra was sealed and the way that Hachibi's chakra was sealed. Kyubi's chakra was sealed in the statue by swallow it, and Hachibi's chakra was sealed using a special sealing technique. It possible that because the Kyubi chakra was not sealed properly(as does to Hachibi chakra) its not able to formed as biju. I don't have good idea to the reason, but you could say the technique that used by Akatsuki start a progress that transform the biju chakra(that begin to sealed in the statue) to a real biju, and because Kyubi chakra does not go through this process it's enable to formed as biju.
In my opinion the possibility that Killer-Bee will be saved is more likely, even if the way that Kishi will choose to do that will be different than mine.
I'd love to hear your comments.
Simply, Killer-Bee died immediately, since Hachibi was extracted from him — and all jinchurikis that biju extracted from him died, whether short time later(ones that Uzumaki)and whether immediately(all those who not).
This conclusion would remain in effect, if not a single act that seen in
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. In the chapter Hachibi seen when he cuts one of his arms before he sealed in the Gedo-mazo. What was the purpose of this action?
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Note: as long as not stated otherwise, in purpose, I mean the purpose from the perspective of Hachibi and not the writer — Kishi.
1) Purpose — Saving the world
You could say that the goal is to save the world. Hachibi, realizing that he was going to sealed in the statue wanted to leave to the shinobi a means that can help them defeat Madara when he becomes the jinchuriki of jubbi(inevitable), the means was — his chakra. He knew, through the experience gained in the battle against Obito(as jinchuriki), that there is no direct way[=power vs. power] to defeat the junchuriki of jubbi(as of writing this post), and the only way to defeat him is by pulling the bijus chakra from him(or suction,
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). And since his chakra is the only one that is not in the hands of the shinobi, he cut one of his arms(containing chakra) and left it on the battlefield.But this argument is difficult if we treat it from the perspective of Kishi. In
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Obito seen sucking, using Hashirama cells, some chakra of Shukaku and Hachibi from Madara. Its pretty clear that Kishi plan that these chakras will play a role in defeating madara, and the role will probably be the same role of the chakra of the other biju within Naruto. But if this is the plan, what would be on the arm of Hachibi, that now completely unnecessary? Its does not make sense that Kishi bothered to show us that Hachibi take an action in defeating madara, and finally tell us that this action completely unnecessary.This option undermined but note denied completely, so we will consider the second option.
2) Purpose — Saving Killer-Bee
The timing of action(as Hachibi was about to extracted from Killer-Bee) implies that its has to do with saving Killer-Bee. But how exactly?
a) Re-sealed the arm
The Kyubi tell us that there is a way to save jinchuriki that experienced extraction: Re-sealing the biju that was extracted. We also learned from him that the biju we want to sealed dont have to be the same biju that was extracted, but is have to be a part from the complete biju(
You must be registered for see links
).Its safe to assume that also Hachibi know this knowledge.
If so, the emerging conclusion is that Killer-Bee could will be saved by this way.
But, the principal assumption is that Killer-Bee died instantly(any possibility in which Killer-Bee was experienced biju extraction and not died instantly will surprised me), because he is not a Uzumaki. Therefore this option rejected, and its show here only to protocol.
b) Hachibi was not extracted completely
Clarification: Any suggestion that argued that the arm that was cut had a connection to saving Killer-Bee, have to answer the big question: Why Kyubi not act the same way to save Naruto? If it come down to an act as simple as cutting an arm, why Kyubi don't act this way? Why choose a complicated way(relative)? Why take a chance that Naruto will die?
In other words, any suggestion that explains how cutting the arm will save Killer-Bee have to explain also - why this explanation applied only to Hachibi and Killer-Bee, and not Kyubi and Naruto.
The discussion above assume that Hachibi was extracted from Killer-Bee, but what if it's not accurate? what if Hachibi doesn't extracted completely, what if Madara extract from killer-Bee only part of Hachibi and the other part still remains sealed in Killer-Bee?
This is actually the argument that I what to present in this thread. For convenience we decompose the argument to its basic claims and will establish them.
First of all, we explains about the fundamental difference between biju and chakra-organ(for our concern, the arm): the consciousness — biju does have consciousness, chakra-organ does not.
The basic argument: the arm that Hachibi cut is not only an arm(contains chakra), but a complete biju — another Hachibi, that remains sealed in Killer-Bee.
Two Hachibi
First, we will show that there are, in fact, two Hachibi — two biju(like the definition above) with Hachibi chakra.
Two: When the shinobi succeed to extracted the chakra of the bijus from obito, the chakra started to merge and manifest as biju. But, pay attention to Hachibi's chakra that was extracted, its not merged with Hachibi completely, as expected, but it merge into a Mini-Hachibi(
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).
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From this point,I will refer to Hachibi as 'Hachibi-Original' and to the other Hachibi as 'Hachibi-Mini', When there is a need to distinguish between them.
Consciousness: In chapter 655 Hachibi seen when is screaming. Legibly, we talk about Hachibi-Original, but the proportion between this size and the size of the Hachibi arm behind him and between the size of the bijus in the background, clearly proof that this Hachibi-Mini. If so, Hachibi-Mini can talk, what means he have a consciousness(
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).
You must be registered for see images
Independent: Now we have to disprove the claim that how is taking is Hachibi-Original through this arm.
When the four-tails thanks to Naruto for keeping this promise to save the bijus, the other bijus joins as well and thank to Naruto, each one on his way, for saving them. Bijus from one-tail to eight-tail thank to Naruto, but nine-tails is missing — why? Simple, because nine-tails was never sealed in the statue, only this chakra(not biju) sealed. But, if so, why Hachibi thanks to Naruto, he also never sealed in the statue(only this chakra)? The answer is, the one that thanks to Naruto is not Hachibi-Original(that never sealed, only his chakra) but Hachibi-Mini(that was sealed in the statue)(
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)The complete argument: The arm that Hachibi-Original cut is in fact the same Mini-Hachibi that extracted from Obito. When Hachibi cut his arm[=Hachibi-Mini] this separates himself from Hachibi-Mini so that Madara extract only him, and Hachibi-Mini remains sealed in Killer-Bee.
Handle the problem of merge
From chapter 656 and so on Hachibi-Mini does not seen(as of writing this post), and it is likely that he merged with Hachibi-Original and transformed to an arm. The nature of this merging must be understood. I have already shown that he has a consciousness. It is not reasonable to say that now, once they merged — there are two consciousness to one body, that why I assume that there is only one consciousness, and that the consciousness of Hachibi-Mini united with the consciousness of Hachibi-Original what create a one united consciousness.
The problem with this assumption is that if they merged — how it is possible to separate them only by using a physical action without some technique?
This question led me to assume that on some level there was a separation between the two Hachibi, namely — the merging between them was a partially. The merger took place in such a way that created a single unified consciousness but at the same time the individuality of them saved(One can understand the merger more like a connection between the two entities and not fusion between the two entities).
This way allows the separation not by using a technique of any kind, but only through physical action(if the separation did not exist on some level, as a given, it necessary to use an separation technique or the separation cant be done).
Support for this claim can be found in
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. In the Chapter we see jubbi chakra. As you can see it consists of all bijus chakra when they are connected. Pay attention that the chakra of bijus connected to each other, to create a new chakra, while maintaining their faces-unique. There you have it, a number of bijus merging together to create a new(-old) consciousness while maintaining their individuality(What allow the separation between them earlier). While there is no identity between the two cases, the similarities between them enough to support my claim.
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Kyubi and Hachibi — what the different?
Now the big question above must be answered, The answer must explain how Kyubi is different from Hachibi.
The fundamental reason that allowed the rescue of Killer-Bee is the existence of Hachibi-Mini, So we have to find out why Kyubi's chakra that was extracted from Obito was not formed to Mini-Kyubi, as happened with Hachibi(Although you can not see that it did not happen, because that Kyubi's chakra is outside the frame, I assumed that it did not happen as long as I haven't seen it).
One suggestion could be that there is a difference between the Kyubi's chakra and the extracted Kyubi-chakra: The first — yang, and the second — yin and yang, and perhaps this difference is preventing the formation of the extracted Kyubi-chakra to Mini-Kyubi. This proposal is difficult because we known that both the Kyubi shared chakra with each other.
Another proposal, there is a different between the way that Kyubi's chakra was sealed and the way that Hachibi's chakra was sealed. Kyubi's chakra was sealed in the statue by swallow it, and Hachibi's chakra was sealed using a special sealing technique. It possible that because the Kyubi chakra was not sealed properly(as does to Hachibi chakra) its not able to formed as biju. I don't have good idea to the reason, but you could say the technique that used by Akatsuki start a progress that transform the biju chakra(that begin to sealed in the statue) to a real biju, and because Kyubi chakra does not go through this process it's enable to formed as biju.
In my opinion the possibility that Killer-Bee will be saved is more likely, even if the way that Kishi will choose to do that will be different than mine.
I'd love to hear your comments.