KCM Naruto was really a beast

[Obito the supreme jin]

Agreed KCM Naruto was amaing. As soon as he arrived on that battlefield he took out Zetsus left and right and he was responsible for sealing most of the Kages especially the 3rd Raikage with whom he got with a Rasengan to his scar.

 

[Xlad]

Yeah. Insane.

 

[Tonybeeth]

Your estimate is highly fallacious.

KCM Naruto is slightly stronger if not on par with MS Sasuke, not any stronger than that. SM Naruto was inferior to MS Sasuke. With the boost KCM provided, Naruto became slightly stronger than MS Sasuke according to my idea. How do you expect that to compare to EMS Madara and SM Hashirama?

Also, in terms of raw power, EMS Madara > SM Hashirama. Don't forget that SM Hashirama only managed to win against EMS Madara because of deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing Madara's attacks, which made most of Madara's attacks ineffective whereas all of Hashi's attacks were effective. Even after that advantage, Hashi also had regeneration which negated minor hits from Madara whereas Madara had no such luxury. If Hashi took all of Madara's attack, he would be dead meat long ago.

So against opponents who can't fight Madara like Hashi did i.e. deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing his attacks, or they don't have the right techniques to counter Madara's attacks like Hashi did, then Madara is a much stronger opponent for them compared to Hashirama and he will be more destructive since his raw power is greater. So Naruto can't be above EMS Madara and below SM Hashirama.

Your post doesn't deserve a reply cause obviously you don't read the manga. I can only laugh as hard as possible.
I do agree that his estimate is just wrong but for the fact you think SM naruto < MS Sasuke and SM Hashirama < EMS Madara just make be like

 

[Uzumaki Menma]

chakra mode allowed Naruto to sense emotions and hear people thoughts?? WTF! That's OP right there indeed.

BM's speed alone forced five tbb flying miles off into different directions.

 

[Nagi]

Your estimate is highly fallacious.

KCM Naruto is slightly stronger if not on par with MS Sasuke, not any stronger than that. SM Naruto was inferior to MS Sasuke. With the boost KCM provided, Naruto became slightly stronger than MS Sasuke according to my idea. How do you expect that to compare to EMS Madara and SM Hashirama?

Also, in terms of raw power, EMS Madara > SM Hashirama. Don't forget that SM Hashirama only managed to win against EMS Madara because of deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing Madara's attacks, which made most of Madara's attacks ineffective whereas all of Hashi's attacks were effective. Even after that advantage, Hashi also had regeneration which negated minor hits from Madara whereas Madara had no such luxury. If Hashi took all of Madara's attack, he would be dead meat long ago.

So against opponents who can't fight Madara like Hashi did i.e. deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing his attacks, or they don't have the right techniques to counter Madara's attacks like Hashi did, then Madara is a much stronger opponent for them compared to Hashirama and he will be more destructive since his raw power is greater. So Naruto can't be above EMS Madara and below SM Hashirama.

lol. I swear Madara be putting in some serious work against Hashi! It was really a Prodigy vs a God fight between them.

 

[KidGamer65]

Your estimate is highly fallacious.

KCM Naruto is slightly stronger if not on par with MS Sasuke, not any stronger than that. SM Naruto was inferior to MS Sasuke. With the boost KCM provided, Naruto became slightly stronger than MS Sasuke according to my idea. How do you expect that to compare to EMS Madara and SM Hashirama?

Also, in terms of raw power, EMS Madara > SM Hashirama. Don't forget that SM Hashirama only managed to win against EMS Madara because of deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing Madara's attacks, which made most of Madara's attacks ineffective whereas all of Hashi's attacks were effective. Even after that advantage, Hashi also had regeneration which negated minor hits from Madara whereas Madara had no such luxury. If Hashi took all of Madara's attack, he would be dead meat long ago.

So against opponents who can't fight Madara like Hashi did i.e. deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing his attacks, or they don't have the right techniques to counter Madara's attacks like Hashi did, then Madara is a much stronger opponent for them compared to Hashirama and he will be more destructive since his raw power is greater. So Naruto can't be above EMS Madara and below SM Hashirama.

Absolutely wrong. Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out, so how in the world is he superior even w/ Kyuubi? In terms of raw power, Hashirama=VoTE Madara. In terms of overall combat, Hashirama>=Madara. The battle was probably the closest one in the Manga tbh.

And KCM Naruto is FAR above MS Sasuke. :lol. KCM Naruto>>MS Sasuke>SM Naruto before the War.

The only thing right is that KCM Naruto is fodder to Hashirama or Madara.

 

[Glad Of War]

Your estimate is highly fallacious.

KCM Naruto is slightly stronger if not on par with MS Sasuke, not any stronger than that. SM Naruto was inferior to MS Sasuke. With the boost KCM provided, Naruto became slightly stronger than MS Sasuke according to my idea. How do you expect that to compare to EMS Madara and SM Hashirama?

Also, in terms of raw power, EMS Madara > SM Hashirama. Don't forget that SM Hashirama only managed to win against EMS Madara because of deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing Madara's attacks, which made most of Madara's attacks ineffective whereas all of Hashi's attacks were effective. Even after that advantage, Hashi also had regeneration which negated minor hits from Madara whereas Madara had no such luxury. If Hashi took all of Madara's attack, he would be dead meat long ago.

So against opponents who can't fight Madara like Hashi did i.e. deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing his attacks, or they don't have the right techniques to counter Madara's attacks like Hashi did, then Madara is a much stronger opponent for them compared to Hashirama and he will be more destructive since his raw power is greater. So Naruto can't be above EMS Madara and below SM Hashirama.

@Bold, Pretty sure Hashirama Thousand hands Buddha statue shits on any of Madara's raw power.

 

[Nagi]

Absolutely wrong. Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out, so how in the world is he superior even w/ Kyuubi? In terms of raw power, Hashirama=VoTE Madara. In terms of overall combat, Hashirama>=Madara. The battle was probably the closest one in the Manga tbh.

And KCM Naruto is FAR above MS Sasuke. :lol. KCM Naruto>>MS Sasuke>SM Naruto before the War.

The only thing right is that KCM Naruto is fodder to Hashirama or Madara.

@Bold, Pretty sure Hashirama Thousand hands Buddha statue shits on any of Madara's raw power.

He was meant to say skill instead of power. But don't let that shit overshadow the rest of his post. Hashi was a God. Madara was a prodigy that was trying to beat a god!

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Yeah they say he has near teleportation speed, but then shit on that later on.

OT: he's strong no doubt, but not even close to EMS Madara. PS rapes

Ps wins but ps aint stronger than kurama and sm naruto was throwing tailed beasts and rhinos and making rs big as kurama an ems ps isn't ending the fight in less than a minute.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Your estimate is highly fallacious.

KCM Naruto is slightly stronger if not on par with MS Sasuke, not any stronger than that. SM Naruto was inferior to MS Sasuke. With the boost KCM provided, Naruto became slightly stronger than MS Sasuke according to my idea. How do you expect that to compare to EMS Madara and SM Hashirama?

Also, in terms of raw power, EMS Madara > SM Hashirama. Don't forget that SM Hashirama only managed to win against EMS Madara because of deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing Madara's attacks, which made most of Madara's attacks ineffective whereas all of Hashi's attacks were effective. Even after that advantage, Hashi also had regeneration which negated minor hits from Madara whereas Madara had no such luxury. If Hashi took all of Madara's attack, he would be dead meat long ago.

So against opponents who can't fight Madara like Hashi did i.e. deviating, blocking, hindering and suppressing his attacks, or they don't have the right techniques to counter Madara's attacks like Hashi did, then Madara is a much stronger opponent for them compared to Hashirama and he will be more destructive since his raw power is greater. So Naruto can't be above EMS Madara and below SM Hashirama.

Mf Ms Sasuke was equal at most to sm naruto
What you think a bijuu sized rs is gonna do tp a half body susanoo taijutsu one shots snd Sasuke wouldn't land a hit his best bet is genjutsu
Naruto noticed indra at the summit that's why he trained cause he wanted to be over Sasuke by a large margin to avoid killing each other like indra and ashura.
Naruto knew the repercussions of their fued
Zetsu said ms sasuke was weaker
Susanoo didnt close that gap
Raikage Ay showed thst full body susanoos arent indestructible in that tier of power
Sm Naruto rapes half body susanoo senses amaterasu and overwhelms in taijutsu
Sasuke only win with genjutsu

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Your post doesn't deserve a reply cause obviously you don't read the manga. I can only laugh as hard as possible.
I do agree that his estimate is just wrong but for the fact you think SM naruto < MS Sasuke and SM Hashirama < EMS Madara just make be like

Oh, I read the manga very well. And unlike you, I actually comprehend it correctly as well. And you can laugh as much or as hard as you want, it is of my lowest concerns. But I'll take my time explaining to you anyway...

Okay, so how do you think "SM Naruto < MS Sasuke" is a wrong statement? Oh I think you just saw that SM Naruto defeated Pain, and Sasuke hardly defeated Danzo and you automatically made the conclusion that SM > MS just based on those results without seeing all the major and minor details and occurrences of the fight. Am I right? You obviously did, otherwise you'd never oppose this.

Naruto's most powerful jutsu in SM is FRS. And according to my analysis, FRS is much inferior to Kirin because Kirin's destructive power is much greater (able to destroy an entire hill whereas Rasenshuriken only took a couple of Pain's out) and it is vastly quicker (FRS can be evaded like the Pain's did whereas Kirin is inevitable), yet Itachi was able to survive Kirin using Susanoo. So I see no problem in MS Sasuke surviving a much weaker jutsu i.e. FRS with Susanoo. Sasuke can either evade it with speed since it's not that fast and does not cover a huge area or simply tank it with Susanoo. But Naruto can't tank or evade Kirin with anything he has. Kirin is basically GG for Naruto. And in Naruto's side of offense, SM Naruto can only create one FRS at one time, so you can't even argue that by increasing the quantity of FRS, Naruto has any chance of bypassing Susanoo's defences.

Also, Naruto can avoid Sharingan Genjutsu but has no counter for it once it strikes him. And Naruto has some ways of countering Amaterasu, but once it hits Naruto, Naruto is dead. Also, Naruto has only two choices in fighting. Either he looks at Sasuke's eyes or he doesn't. If he looks at Sasuke's eyes, he gets genjutsu'd. If he doesn't, then he gets Amaterasu'd since Ama can't be sensed using SM (it can only be "seen" using chakra build up). So either scenario is GG for Naruto.

Naruto's physical attacks are ineffective against Susanoo. Even Frog Kata is futile. Also, Sasuke can easily get rid of Ma and Pa using Amaterasu at the very beginning, so they can't cast Sound Genjutsu also. Is that enough to prove MS Sasuke > SM Naruto?

Regarding EMS Madara and SM Hashirama... Since you're stupid, you misconceived what I said. I never said "EMS Madara > SM Hashirama" as a whole. I only said that in terms of raw power. EMS Madara's raw power only is greater than SM Hashirama. But Hashirama is overall the stronger shinobi due to his abilities which make Madara's raw power ineffective and that's the only reason Hashi won against Madara. Please learn to read posts correctly at least if you can't correctly perceive the manga.

Absolutely wrong. Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out, so how in the world is he superior even w/ Kyuubi? In terms of raw power, Hashirama=VoTE Madara. In terms of overall combat, Hashirama>=Madara. The battle was probably the closest one in the Manga tbh.

And KCM Naruto is FAR above MS Sasuke. :lol. KCM Naruto>>MS Sasuke>SM Naruto before the War.

The only thing right is that KCM Naruto is fodder to Hashirama or Madara.

It's not wrong.

How can you say Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out? Just because it countered Madara's Susanoo coated Kurama doesn't mean it has the same raw power. Hashirama hit Madara with ALL those GIGANTIC 1000 Buddha arms and it only managed to completely destroy Susanoo. Kurama was completely unaffected. Whereas Madara severed the main armament of Shinsuusenju only with a couple of Susanoo magatamas. That's what you call greater raw power? Unbelievable coming from you.

If Madara used more, he could've done even more damage to SS. Plus, Susanoo sword could have sliced the entire structure into half and could have completely destroyed Shinsuusenju and killed Hashirama with multiple PS sword strikes if Madara managed to land perfect hits with it. PS Susanoo sword > anything in Hashirama's arsenal. But Hashirama never allowed it to hit him and always binded and deviated Madara's PS sword strikes away so as to not hit him, otherwise he would've been dead easily. EMS Madara took the complete brute force of Hashirama's strongest attack, whereas Hashirama couldn't take Madara's strongest attack and always deviated or restricted it. EMS Madara's raw power is easily greater than SM Hashirama.

Also, how is KCM Naruto FAR above MS Sasuke? MS Sasuke with full armored Susanoo could tank almost everything KCM Naruto has. FRS gets easily tanked even by non-armored version, and SMTBB is also not a big deal to handle especially for a full armored version. Madara could tank a TBB with PS, no problem. So correspondingly, Sasuke could also easily tank a SMTBB (which is way smaller compared to regular TBB used against Madara) with full armored Susanoo which is not as weak compared to PS in defense as SMTBB is weak compared to TBB in offense. And in contrast, KCM Naruto still can't evade or tank Kirin even with the KCM speed and KCM defenses.

All the physical attacks by KCM Naruto are again tanked by Susanoo. Whereas all Susanoo attacks also get evaded or blocked by KCM Naruto. KCM Naruto can't cast Sound Genjutsu. And KCM Naruto can counter Amaterasu, but genjutsu is still a problem for him. Plus, since KCM Naruto doesn't have SM sensing, fighting Sasuke without making contact with his eyes is difficult and he has chances for falling for genjutsu.

For Naruto:

Susanoo attacks - no problem (can be evaded or blocked)
Amaterasu - no problem (can be evaded and maybe removed)
Genjutsu - partially a problem (but can be avoided with some difficulty in fighting)
Kirin - big problem (no way of blocking or evading)

For Sasuke:

Physical attacks - no problem (Susanoo tanks them)
FRS - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)
SMTBB - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)

Theoretically, MS Sasuke > KCM Naruto. But since Naruto can create clones and increase the quantity of his jutsus, he might still be able to cause considerably more damage to Susanoo with multiple attacks. So that's why MS Sasuke = KCM Naruto.

And both have their respective drawbacks. MS Sasuke has the drawback of blindness whereas KCM Naruto has the drawback of chakra drain i.e. he can't maintain KCM for very long. Plus, creating clones increases the chakra drain, so Naruto can't even push his limits to fight Sasuke with clones. MS Sasuke has no problem fighting KCM Naruto. BM however is way stronger than KCM and MS due to all increased power and abilities and stronger jutsus compared to KCM including increased physical attributes, more and powerful FRS and TBBs plus the Kurama Avatar. Sasuke needs EMS with full fledged Susanoo to rival BM Naruto. And BSM Naruto is even stronger, so Sasuke will needs EMS w/PS to counter that.

Mf Ms Sasuke was equal at most to sm naruto
What you think a bijuu sized rs is gonna do tp a half body susanoo taijutsu one shots snd Sasuke wouldn't land a hit his best bet is genjutsu
Naruto noticed indra at the summit that's why he trained cause he wanted to be over Sasuke by a large margin to avoid killing each other like indra and ashura.
Naruto knew the repercussions of their fued
Zetsu said ms sasuke was weaker
Susanoo didnt close that gap
Raikage Ay showed thst full body susanoos arent indestructible in that tier of power
Sm Naruto rapes half body susanoo senses amaterasu and overwhelms in taijutsu
Sasuke only win with genjutsu

Read my responses for the above quotes.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Oh, I read the manga very well. And unlike you, I actually comprehend it correctly as well. And you can laugh as much or as hard as you want, it is of my lowest concerns. But I'll take my time explaining to you anyway...

Okay, so how do you think "SM Naruto < MS Sasuke" is a wrong statement? Oh I think you just saw that SM Naruto defeated Pain, and Sasuke hardly defeated Danzo and you automatically made the conclusion that SM > MS just based on those results without seeing all the major and minor details and occurrences of the fight. Am I right? You obviously did, otherwise you'd never oppose this.

Naruto's most powerful jutsu in SM is FRS. And according to my analysis, FRS is much inferior to Kirin because Kirin's destructive power is much greater (able to destroy an entire hill whereas Rasenshuriken only took a couple of Pain's out) and it is vastly quicker (FRS can be evaded like the Pain's did whereas Kirin is inevitable), yet Itachi was able to survive Kirin using Susanoo. So I see no problem in MS Sasuke surviving a much weaker jutsu i.e. FRS with Susanoo. Sasuke can either evade it with speed since it's not that fast and does not cover a huge area or simply tank it with Susanoo. But Naruto can't tank or evade Kirin with anything he has. Kirin is basically GG for Naruto. And in Naruto's side of offense, SM Naruto can only create one FRS at one time, so you can't even argue that by increasing the quantity of FRS, Naruto has any chance of bypassing Susanoo's defences.

Also, Naruto can avoid Sharingan Genjutsu but has no counter for it once it strikes him. And Naruto has some ways of countering Amaterasu, but once it hits Naruto, Naruto is dead. Also, Naruto has only two choices in fighting. Either he looks at Sasuke's eyes or he doesn't. If he looks at Sasuke's eyes, he gets genjutsu'd. If he doesn't, then he gets Amaterasu'd since Ama can't be sensed using SM (it can only be "seen" using chakra build up). So either scenario is GG for Naruto.

Naruto's physical attacks are ineffective against Susanoo. Even Frog Kata is futile. Also, Sasuke can easily get rid of Ma and Pa using Amaterasu at the very beginning, so they can't cast Sound Genjutsu also. Is that enough to prove MS Sasuke > SM Naruto?

Regarding EMS Madara and SM Hashirama... Since you're stupid, you misconceived what I said. I never said "EMS Madara > SM Hashirama" as a whole. I only said that in terms of raw power. EMS Madara's raw power only is greater than SM Hashirama. But Hashirama is overall the stronger shinobi due to his abilities which make Madara's raw power ineffective and that's the only reason Hashi won against Madara. Please learn to read posts correctly at least if you can't correctly perceive the manga.



It's not wrong.

How can you say Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out? Just because it countered Madara's Susanoo coated Kurama doesn't mean it has the same raw power. Hashirama hit Madara with ALL those GIGANTIC 1000 Buddha arms and it only managed to completely destroy Susanoo. Kurama was completely unaffected. Whereas Madara severed the main armament of Shinsuusenju only with a couple of Susanoo magatamas. That's what you call greater raw power? Unbelievable coming from you.

If Madara used more, he could've done even more damage to SS. Plus, Susanoo sword could have sliced the entire structure into half and could have completely destroyed Shinsuusenju and killed Hashirama with multiple PS sword strikes if Madara managed to land perfect hits with it. PS Susanoo sword > anything in Hashirama's arsenal. But Hashirama never allowed it to hit him and always binded and deviated Madara's PS sword strikes away so as to not hit him, otherwise he would've been dead easily. EMS Madara took the complete brute force of Hashirama's strongest attack, whereas Hashirama couldn't take Madara's strongest attack and always deviated or restricted it. EMS Madara's raw power is easily greater than SM Hashirama.

Also, how is KCM Naruto FAR above MS Sasuke? MS Sasuke with full armored Susanoo could tank almost everything KCM Naruto has. FRS gets easily tanked even by non-armored version, and SMTBB is also not a big deal to handle especially for a full armored version. Madara could tank a TBB with PS, no problem. So correspondingly, Sasuke could also easily tank a SMTBB (which is way smaller compared to regular TBB used against Madara) with full armored Susanoo which is not as weak compared to PS in defense as SMTBB is weak compared to TBB in offense. And in contrast, KCM Naruto still can't evade or tank Kirin even with the KCM speed and KCM defenses.

All the physical attacks by KCM Naruto are again tanked by Susanoo. Whereas all Susanoo attacks also get evaded or blocked by KCM Naruto. KCM Naruto can't cast Sound Genjutsu. And KCM Naruto can counter Amaterasu, but genjutsu is still a problem for him. Plus, since KCM Naruto doesn't have SM sensing, fighting Sasuke without making contact with his eyes is difficult and he has chances for falling for genjutsu.

For Naruto:

Susanoo attacks - no problem (can be evaded or blocked)
Amaterasu - no problem (can be evaded and maybe removed)
Genjutsu - partially a problem (but can be avoided with some difficulty in fighting)
Kirin - big problem (no way of blocking or evading)

For Sasuke:

Physical attacks - no problem (Susanoo tanks them)
FRS - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)
SMTBB - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)

Theoretically, MS Sasuke > KCM Naruto. But since Naruto can create clones and increase the quantity of his jutsus, he might still be able to cause considerably more damage to Susanoo with multiple attacks. So that's why MS Sasuke = KCM Naruto.

And both have their respective drawbacks. MS Sasuke has the drawback of blindness whereas KCM Naruto has the drawback of chakra drain i.e. he can't maintain KCM for very long. Plus, creating clones increases the chakra drain, so Naruto can't even push his limits to fight Sasuke with clones. MS Sasuke has no problem fighting KCM Naruto. BM however is way stronger than KCM and MS due to all increased power and abilities and stronger jutsus compared to KCM including increased physical attributes, more and powerful FRS and TBBs plus the Kurama Avatar. Sasuke needs EMS with full fledged Susanoo to rival BM Naruto. And BSM Naruto is even stronger, so Sasuke will needs EMS w/PS to counter that.

Susanoo aint taking attacks that pushed kurama When danzos wind sliced it
Ay and Tsunade took down
Reading your post is physically hurting me no exaggeration
Bm Naruto= ps you saw what je did to madaras sm susanoo
Susanoo barely tanks weaker attacks smfh
Sasuke aint fighting with susanoo forever either t causes him pain.

Ms Sasuke was touched by Danzo
Sm Naruto punches him dead.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Your post doesn't deserve a reply cause obviously you don't read the manga. I can only laugh as hard as possible.
I do agree that his estimate is just wrong but for the fact you think SM naruto < MS Sasuke and SM Hashirama < EMS Madara just make be like

Its painful to look at smfh

 

[KidGamer65]

It's not wrong.

How can you say Madara needed Kyuubi just to match the raw power Shinsuusenju puts out? Just because it countered Madara's Susanoo coated Kurama doesn't mean it has the same raw power. Hashirama hit Madara with ALL those GIGANTIC 1000 Buddha arms and it only managed to completely destroy Susanoo. Kurama was completely unaffected. Whereas Madara severed the main armament of Shinsuusenju only with a couple of Susanoo magatamas. That's what you call greater raw power? Unbelievable coming from you.

No, because it created an explosion of equal size to make the combo explosion we saw at the VoTE. That's why it has equal raw power. Not to mention this whole paragraph was just a waste since it doesn't refute anything I've said.

-Kurama not being hurt=/=PS Kurama having more firepower than Shinsuusenju.
-Shinsuusenju using all it's hands=/=Shinsuusenju not having equal fire power.
-A couple? Let's not lie about what the Manga clearly shows this early into the discussion. He used 12 those Bijuu Dama Blades. (Where are you even getting "Susanoo Magatama from" :lol. Manga. Read it) That is Madara's best on panel, and all he could do was match Hashirama's best. Fact.

If Madara used more, he could've done even more damage to SS. Plus, Susanoo sword could have sliced the entire structure into half and could have completely destroyed Shinsuusenju and killed Hashirama with multiple PS sword strikes if Madara managed to land perfect hits with it. PS Susanoo sword > anything in Hashirama's arsenal. But Hashirama never allowed it to hit him and always binded and deviated Madara's PS sword strikes away so as to not hit him, otherwise he would've been dead easily. EMS Madara took the complete brute force of Hashirama's strongest attack, whereas Hashirama couldn't take Madara's strongest attack and always deviated or restricted it. EMS Madara's raw power is easily greater than SM Hashirama.

There is no "if". "If" he could've used more, he would've done so instead of settling for 12 and losing the fight. If you believe he can fire off more than 12 Bijuu Dama blades then by all means, prove it.

Susanoo sword being able to bisect Shinsuusenu is a baseless assumption from you, a laughable one at that since he had Perfect Susanoo yet he went to go find Kyuubi, cause he knew PS alone would be taken out. Not to mention that literally has jack to do with anything that was stated. Shinsuusenju's raw power>>>>>Perfect Susanoo on it's own. PS cuts Mountains, SS flattens that same Perfect Susanoo.

-Hashirama never allowing it to hit him directly is irrelevant. Why the hell would he let a Susanoo blade hit his body directly anyway? Lol. That's obvious death and it has nothing to do with SS having more firepower than PS.

-I'm 100% sure that we don't read the same Manga at this point.

You must be registered for see links

explosion is the result of Hashirama and Madara's strongest attacks. Hashirama was in that blast just like Madara, and both survived it. PS was wrecked, Kyuubi was put to sleep, and SS lost all it's attack arms. So tell me more about how Hashirama "never took" Madara's strongest attack when Manga literally shows that he did. What's worse is that every single instance you are describing is before Hashirama called Shinsuusenju and after Mokujin was destroyed and before he entered Sage Mode.

Your argument doesn't even fit, so I shouldn't have wasted time countering it. None of what you showed proves that Hashirama's offensive power is inferior to Madara's. What are actually arguing is that Madara's defensive capability>Hashirama's, that's why he can take Hashirama's best attack while Hashirama can't take his best attack. (even though he was in the explosion and came out unscathed while his statue took all the damage, just how PS took all of Madara's damage)


When PS gets the firepower to destroy itself like Shinsuusenju can, then we can talk about Madara on his own having more firepower than Hashirama.

Also, how is KCM Naruto FAR above MS Sasuke? MS Sasuke with full armored Susanoo could tank almost everything KCM Naruto has. FRS gets easily tanked even by non-armored version, and SMTBB is also not a big deal to handle especially for a full armored version. Madara could tank a TBB with PS, no problem. So correspondingly, Sasuke could also easily tank a SMTBB (which is way smaller compared to regular TBB used against Madara) with full armored Susanoo which is not as weak compared to PS in defense as SMTBB is weak compared to TBB in offense. And in contrast, KCM Naruto still can't evade or tank Kirin even with the KCM speed and KCM defenses.

-Wrong. FRS obliterates V3 and below. Not sure where this "non armored version tanks" nonsense is coming from. Not to mention Naruto has Oodama FRS and Chou Oodama FRS, both of which one shot any Susanoo MS Sasuke can muster up along with him.

-What is an "SMTBB"? Mini BD? It's irrelevant.

-Kirin is irrelevant when Sasuke gets killed in 3-4 attacks at most.

All the physical attacks by KCM Naruto are again tanked by Susanoo. Whereas all Susanoo attacks also get evaded or blocked by KCM Naruto. KCM Naruto can't cast Sound Genjutsu. And KCM Naruto can counter Amaterasu, but genjutsu is still a problem for him. Plus, since KCM Naruto doesn't have SM sensing, fighting Sasuke without making contact with his eyes is difficult and he has chances for falling for genjutsu.

Most of this doesn't even change the outcome of the fight except Genjutsu, which Kruama easily breaks him out of assuming he gets caught, which won't be likely since every high tier match has shown that Genjutsu has no place, and because Naruto has clones.

For Naruto:

Susanoo attacks - no problem (can be evaded or blocked)
Amaterasu - no problem (can be evaded and maybe removed)
Genjutsu - partially a problem (but can be avoided with some difficulty in fighting)
Kirin - big problem (no way of blocking or evading)

Genjutsu isn't an issue tbh, and Kirin is never happening.

For Sasuke:

Physical attacks - no problem (Susanoo tanks them)
FRS - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)
SMTBB - no problem (Susanoo tanks it)

Susanoo can't tank FRS. Not sure what you are basing that off of.

Theoretically, MS Sasuke > KCM Naruto. But since Naruto can create clones and increase the quantity of his jutsus, he might still be able to cause considerably more damage to Susanoo with multiple attacks. So that's why MS Sasuke = KCM Naruto.

Uh, no. MS Sasuke is not > KCM Naruto when KCM Naruto can casually use an attack that'd wreck his V3 Susanoo, and his strongest attack is something that'd wreck his strongest Susanoo. (Chou Oodama FRS) MS Sasuke is not > KCM Naruto when KCM Naruto can dodge Amaterasu, evade Genjutsu and break out of Genjutsu, and when he has the massive stamina advantage due to Sasuke having Mangekyo with all the strain.

And both have their respective drawbacks. MS Sasuke has the drawback of blindness whereas KCM Naruto has the drawback of chakra drain i.e. he can't maintain KCM for very long. Plus, creating clones increases the chakra drain, so Naruto can't even push his limits to fight Sasuke with clones. MS Sasuke has no problem fighting KCM Naruto. BM however is way stronger than KCM and MS due to all increased power and abilities and stronger jutsus compared to KCM including increased physical attributes, more and powerful FRS and TBBs plus the Kurama Avatar. Sasuke needs EMS with full fledged Susanoo to rival BM Naruto. And BSM Naruto is even stronger, so Sasuke will needs EMS w/PS to counter that.

-KCM at it's peak does not have any of those draw backs.

Even if we weren't talking about KCM at it's peak. It took 14 clones and multiple uses of FRS for Naruto to run out of chakra and revert to Base. Naruto does not need 14 clones against Sasuke and he only needs a few FRS to take him out. MS Sasuke gets stomped.

:lol. All I can say is that your Naruto-Sasuke power judgement is flawed beyond belief.

-EMS Sasuke does not rival BM Naruto with his Final Susanoo. Not a chance. A single Bijuu Dama means GG, and he is still left with his pitiful Susanoo Arrows, Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi, none of which will make BM Naruto flinch let alone defeat him. Sasuke's reaction towards Naruto in the War should easily tell you why BM Naruto is leagues above EMS Sasuke w/o Perfect Susanoo. EMS Sasuke would need PS to challenge BM Naruto, and even then he'd still lose.

-BSM Naruto wrecks EMS Sasuke regardless of him having PS, not when his PS only matches BM Naruto's Avatar, not BSM Naruto's Avatar.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Susanoo aint taking attacks that pushed kurama When danzos wind sliced it

Danzo's wind never sliced Susanoo, it didn't seem to be slicing at all. It only applied pressure to the area of Susanoo by the concussive power of the attack and since Sasuke was weakened and couldn't maintain control of Susanoo, his Susanoo retainment got pressurized by Danzo's wind due to which it was subsequently being released as shown that it little by little started to disappear. If Danzo's wind actually did the damage to Susanoo, then Susanoo wouldn't disappear little by little, it would get destructed which it didn't. It was pretty clear that Sasuke's lack of control was what caused the Susanoo to disappear. If Sasuke wasn't weakened and had full control over himself and his Susanoo, Danzo's wind wouldn't be able to pressurize Susanoo. Plus, Danzo's wind attack was enhanced by Baku's suction, the only reason is was even able to put pressure on Sasuke.

Ay and Tsunade took down

Please look at the version of Susanoo Ay and Tsunade put down. Ay couldn't even fully damage Sasuke's ribcage Susanoo and you're saying he can take down full bodied armored Susanoo. That's laughable. Also, Tsunade only cracked the full body version, it didn't harm Madara, so it wouldn't harm Sasuke as well.

Reading your post is physically hurting me no exaggeration

Sorry about the pain. But on my side, it's pretty well because my post is still right.

Bm Naruto= ps you saw what je did to madaras sm susanoo

I was talking about overall power. But even considering your argument, you have to agree that Kurama Avatar = PS. Kurama Avatar in BM and BSM remains same. So we can say that BM/BSM Naruto (w/Kurama Avatar) = EMS Sasuke (w/PS). Still nothing changes, the overall results still stay the same.

Susanoo barely tanks weaker attacks smfh

Susanoo can tank them easily.

Sasuke aint fighting with susanoo forever either t causes him pain.

Naruto also can't fight with SM and KCM forever since he is at risk of death. Plus, Sasuke can use Susanoo long enough. He completely used everything he had againt the Kage, and then wasn't even completely healed, and fought Danzo to the end and completely outlasted Izanagi. That's quite a lot of time. Plus, Sasuke's time with Susanoo increased as time went on that he was able to completely fight the war without getting tired.

Ms Sasuke was touched by Danzo
Sm Naruto punches him dead.

The biggest flaw in Naruto fan's argument (including you) is exactly this thing right here. You only see what happened i.e. the occurrences and base your conclusions on that without trying to see what could happen i.e. the possibilities, without realizing the potential and the major and minor details of the fight.

Its painful to look at smfh

It's painful because you don't understand it.

 

[Berner]

lmfao nice fan fic

EMS Madara > KCM naruto

 

[The Amazing Kaguya]

Naruto was indeed too OP.

Him and Kurama make the ultimate tag team.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

Do you believe he's stronger than madara with Kurama as his summon and has PS??

Get outta here

 

[NarutoX28]

Honestly plot is the ONLY thing that keeps him from blitzing 99.9% of nv.

Honestly, this. After his speed feat against the Raikage, he hasn't been utilizing his Shunshin speed, but rather, his Physical Speed. He's not slow by any means, but him using his V1 or V2 Level Speed would obviously yield better results for him.

 

[TimothyTheTomato]

Danzo's wind never sliced Susanoo, it didn't seem to be slicing at all. It only applied pressure to the area of Susanoo by the concussive power of the attack and since Sasuke was weakened and couldn't maintain control of Susanoo, his Susanoo retainment got pressurized by Danzo's wind due to which it was subsequently being released as shown that it little by little started to disappear. If Danzo's wind actually did the damage to Susanoo, then Susanoo wouldn't disappear little by little, it would get destructed which it didn't. It was pretty clear that Sasuke's lack of control was what caused the Susanoo to disappear. If Sasuke wasn't weakened and had full control over himself and his Susanoo, Danzo's wind wouldn't be able to pressurize Susanoo. Plus, Danzo's wind attack was enhanced by Baku's suction, the only reason is was even able to put pressure on Sasuke.



Please look at the version of Susanoo Ay and Tsunade put down. Ay couldn't even fully damage Sasuke's ribcage Susanoo and you're saying he can take down full bodied armored Susanoo. That's laughable. Also, Tsunade only cracked the full body version, it didn't harm Madara, so it wouldn't harm Sasuke as well.



Sorry about the pain. But on my side, it's pretty well because my post is still right.



I was talking about overall power. But even considering your argument, you have to agree that Kurama Avatar = PS. Kurama Avatar in BM and BSM remains same. So we can say that BM/BSM Naruto (w/Kurama Avatar) = EMS Sasuke (w/PS). Still nothing changes, the overall results still stay the same.



Susanoo can tank them easily.



Naruto also can't fight with SM and KCM forever since he is at risk of death. Plus, Sasuke can use Susanoo long enough. He completely used everything he had againt the Kage, and then wasn't even completely healed, and fought Danzo to the end and completely outlasted Izanagi. That's quite a lot of time. Plus, Sasuke's time with Susanoo increased as time went on that he was able to completely fight the war without getting tired.



The biggest flaw in Naruto fan's argument (including you) is exactly this thing right here. You only see what happened i.e. the occurrences and base your conclusions on that without trying to see what could happen i.e. the possibilities, without realizing the potential and the major and minor details of the fight.



It's painful because you don't understand it.

Kurama avatar gets stronger with natural energy cause thats how senjutsu works.
Guess we can agree to disagree
Ty and im out