it's literally the other way around. I've never repeated a defeated point, the only times I've repeated a point is in response to you ignoring it or attempting to say that the point is invalid in which case I respond showing the point is valid in hopes that you will actually respond to said point.
You on the other hand have been so backed into a corner that you've begun to ignore a lot of my arguments and when you don't ignore them, you usually just address them with an assertion backed up by no reasoning which is just as logically invalid.
There's absolutely no hypocrisy here, you're making a positive claim to knowledge that Ei's feet didn't move, you didn't give any evidence or reasoning for that, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your argument was backed up by a manga scan showing Ei's feet not moving. However after looking at the manga, we aren't shown ei's feet, so your argument isn't supported by any positive evidence.
There's absolutely no hypocrisy here, you're making a positive claim to knowledge that Ei's feet didn't move, you didn't give any evidence or reasoning for that, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your argument was backed up by a manga scan showing Ei's feet not moving. However after looking at the manga, we aren't shown ei's feet, so your argument isn't supported by any positive evidence.
There's no reason that Ei's body would have gone into sasuke's enton shield had he moved his feet, when Ei hits madara's susanoo, when he punches walls, his body never makes contact with the said thing he's attacking. Not only that, but Ei has shown that as long as he kills Sasuke, he doesn't give a rip if he gets lit on fire, so that makes your argument extremely implausible.
I on the otherhand have supported my argument that Ei's cloak increases his physical strength with evidence, I brought up liger bomb, I brought up his clashes with bee, and I brought up it increasing his strength via making his hits faster thus adding more momentum to them. So unlike your argument, I supported my own, however in response to this you said that it doesn't matter what I bring as evidence, unless I produce a scan of Ei explicitly saying his cloak increased his strength, then it doesn't increase his strength. So now you are asserting a certain standard of evidence on my claim, saying that if it doesn't meet this, then it's false. That obviously leads to a double standard on your part since if you are to assert a certain standard of evidence on my argument, why shouldn't your argument (that ei's cloak doesn't increase his strength) not be subject to that same criteria? So that's why it's a double standard on your part, and that's why there's no hypocrisy on my part.
yet a chapter later, we find out that Ei's cloak ALSO massively increases his durability. We then find out that his cloak ALSO massively increases his attack power since it gives his strikes the penetrating properties of raiton. So nope your explanation is demonstrably false.
We literally saw susanoo shrink after it took damage from the gokages attacks. Does that mean susanoo ALWAYS shrinks? Nope. Madara's susanoo got progressively smaller as the gokage continued to hit it, the only explanation is that it shrunk. Art inconsistency does not account for susanoo going from multiple times the size of madara to barely taller than sasuke.
So let me get this straight. You're telling me that this kanji circled in red:
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isn't this 倒?Even if there was some discrepency on the kanji, the hiragana equivalent of the kanji is written on the right of it, and the hiragana is unmistakably: tao ( たお) with the next hiragana reading "se" (せ) which is.... taose who's root word is 'taosu' which does not mean destroy.
The bolded is false, hashirama stating that the rasenshuriken didn't bring down/beat/knock down madara is perfectly in line with the rasenshuriken not being able to beat him because he's an edo. So you don't have an argument, Hashirama didn't say destroy the body, he said defeat. Madara is an edo, he can only be defeated by fuinjutsu, Naruto's rasenshurken destruction feats and hype + Madara's durability feats and hype are perfectly in line with the interpretation that madara wasn't defeated because he was an edo, and massively out of line with madara wasn't defeated because he withstood the attack, therefore my argument is the one that's more plausible and ought to be accepted as true with the evidence we have.
That's once again, just an assertion. Where's your argument that the proportions are skinnier than sasuke's? Even if we aren't talking about thickness, just judging by the length of the arms of madara's susanoo vs the length of the arms from BM avatar would lead you to the inescapable conclusion that Naruto's avatar is far bigger than madaras.
Where's the evidence that sasuke's arrow would mutilate it? You're just spouting assertion after assertion with no reasoning and therefore what you've just said is again worthless.
So what if the arrow had to go through danzou's body? Is Danzou suppose to be super durable? If danzou' had taken a KN4 bijuudama, not only would his body be gone, but the bridge would have been gone as well. a KN4 bijuudama went through 3 rashoumon gates, Sasuke's arrows
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His arrows have absolutely nothing to do with even the weakest of bijuudamas.If a normal bijuudama blew up obito's shield enough to expose his face, obviously one that's bijuusized or PS-sized would completely annihilate it and obito. Why in the world would naruto's clones be helpless without the use of the kurama avatar? they can still use techns and that naruto can send into obito with his chakra tails or by throwing the clones at him like he did to the K11. Obito got a hole punched in his back by a normal SM rasengan, I have no idea why clones wouldn't do anything when they are capable of using BSM rasenshurike and bijuudamas.
Why would obito have grabbed naruto with onmyouton? Naruto can charge his bijuudamas while jumping, if he would have grabbed naruto while charging it he would have grabbed naruto regardless. Not only that, but you've completely ignored naruto not using rapidfire bijuudama something that doesn't require any charge time and something that obito would not have been able to stop.
Disingenuous comparison, Madara hadn't recently used susanoo in order to block any of sasuke's attacks. Not only that, but sasuke was attempting a sneak attack naruto's clone attempted a head on confrontation meaning sasuke couldn't bring out his big moves in fear of giving away his position.
Naruto's largest bijuudama rasengan didn't even blow up, so any kind of argument based on their destruction is fallacious reasoning. It could be the case that naruto's bijuudama produces an even BIGGER explosion that KN6's bijuudama. Thus with the limited information we have, the only method of comparison is to scale them based on sizes. And by that it's in between a KN4 and KN6. Now if you want to pose a counterargument and say naruto's bijuudama ISN'T where I'm claiming it to be, you have to bring up positive evidence that shows just how destructive naruto's jutsu is.
So lets see, we have two interpretations of the manga scan: mine and yours. My interpretation claims that the beak and the left wing hit the tails, which also explains why naruto (being at the tip of the beak) thrusts one of his rasenshurikens into a tail, and why he has no rasenshuriken in his hand after the tails are cut.
Your interpretation claims that the two wings cut the tail, however your interpretation can't explain what happened to naruto's rasenshuriken, there is no plausible explanation for the rasenshuriken being thrust forward and disappearing after the tails are cut.
Therefore my interpretation is by far the most plausible one as it possesses overwhelmingly more explanatory power than yours does.
Both the outer crater and inner crater were made by the time the hokages arrive. The outer one was made by naruto and bee's combined bijuudama which was long before tempenchi was performed. The scan of obito using the barrier obviously wouldn't show two craters since it's zoomed in on the inner one, thus the perspective wasn't big enough to show both craters.
The ocean is here....
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Obito's barrier took up a large portion of that crater, in fact it's so big that it's almost half the diameter of the crater PS/mokujin are fighting in:
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However, when compared to the diameter of the area that the shinjuu roots span, it's incomparably smaller:
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So no, it's impossible for the outside crater to be the same one that mokujin and ps were fighting in, the outer crater is larger than the span of the shinjuu roots which have an diamater incomparably greater than 2x the diameter of obito's barrier.
Then there's the fact that you've literally ignored ALL of these arguments of mine which prove the inner crater was there long before obito smashed naruto and sauske into the ground:
2) You can literally see
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We know the shinjuu roots don't extend beyond the largest crater, juubito didn't slam naruto into the ground yet, therefore they had to have been in the crater from the scan I've provided earlier.3)
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4)
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that shows the shinjuu roots extending far beyond the crater that the SA are in.5)
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proves that there are already two craters, and that the alliance are fighting in the smaller, inner one.6)
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makes it logically impossible for your stance to hold true since the debri from juubito's slam doesn't even reach the edge of the crater meaning it the slam itself couldn't have possibly created that crater, yet we see the branches of the shinjuu extending beyond that crater thus indicating it was the inner crater.7)
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also makes it impossible for your stance to hold true since the
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yet when the bottom up view from the crater is given we get an almost perfectly clear view of the sky when we the shinjuu should have been centered above the crater thus obstructing most of the view.8) then there's the fact that your scan of the shinjuu showed the roots extending to the ground in the crater beneath it, yet there's absolutely no roots seen in the crater that obito's meteor impact made, making it impossible for that to be the case.
9) then there's the fact that we know the
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didn't extend so far seaward that it made contact with the ocean, yet a good portion of the outer crater is so big that it
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10) then there's the fact that we saw how big
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and how
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making it impossible for the shinjuu to have been contained in the PS/mokujin crater.12) The inner crater wasn't created by tenpenchii, it was made from
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The entire alliance vs juubi fight took place in that crater, it's consistent with the size of the crater we've seen PS and mokujin fight in.So this is another concession on your part as I've given you a scan that blatantly showed mountains massively varying in size in the same panel, and around the area where the SA would fight the shinjuu, but you've been forced to straight up ignore it, thus a concession on your part since an ignored argument is a conceded one.
I'll post it again, but this time with more scans and with arrows:
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then there's the fact that we know the debri from just one CT meteor dwarfed mountain RANGES, the same mountain ranges that are made up of the mountains you are saying PS could cut (since according to you all mountains are equal if they are in the same location). Therefore just by this scan alone, Sasuke's PS is on a totally different level of power than Madara's PS:
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Why is the a bolded true? If the bijuudama vaporized a mountains worth of rock, we'd see the chibaku tensei's outer rocks collapse inwards to make up for the hole that the bijuudama made. If the bijuudama blew away a mountain's worth of rock the rock has to go somewhere therefore we'd see the CT emit a mountains worth or rock, the inner rocks would hit the outer ones thus transfering their kinetic energy until the outermost rocks get sent flying. We never see any of that thus, it exploding inside of the CT is irrelevant to the amount of damage we see inside or out.
I literally explained why kurama doing so means that the CT is much more durable than normal rock, I never argued against rock repairing the damage, so those last two points have no bearing on my argument.
You literally said that the chakra powered up his eyes.... permanently which is why sasuke after losing the chakra still has those leveled up eyes. Therefore the chakra leveled up his eyes to the point where sasuke could use a V3 of that size, and then with the ability to use a V3 of that size, sasuke uses the kyuubi's chakra to power up that V3. Don't see why sasuke's suanoo would have the cloak unless you're going to argue that any jutsu used via the kyuubi cloak's powerup also gets a kyuubi cloak.
So nope, even with the baseless assertion that Sasuke's eyes were powered up by the kyuubi cloak allowing him to access a higher and larger version of susanoo, he's still using the kyuubi chakra to power that susanoo.
Samurai and emna can destroy the same size branch as the one sasuke cut in one slash? If not, then your argument is worthless, sure pound for pound gaara's defense might be more durable than the shinjuu, but we're not talking pound for pound unless you want to argue that gaara's auto-defense he used to block the V3 swords is as big as the shinjuu root that sasuke cut. So nope.
Yeah, what you've just suggested is literally impossible. If Sasuke's susanoo would have been busted by the force that busted madara's, his susanoo would not have been able to absorb the total energy of the impact, it would have only stopped an insignificant portion of the impact, leaving sasuke's body to take the rest of the force head on.
On the otherhand, if madara's susanoo was able to protect him from the hit sasuke's took, his susanoo wouldn't have even been breached by the tails, they'd have slammed onto his susanoo and he'd just laugh at them due to the vast difference in the power of both impacts.
Your logic is so bad, that by the same argument one could claim that sasuke could have withstood the impact or really any attack that deals its damage with a single hit with any version of susanoo since no matter how powerful the hit is, susanoo would be destroyed and it would "end it there."
What you've just said is literally apply a hyperbole to the statement. The statement is that their attacks aren't doing anything or they're not taking damage or their attacks had no effect on him. Their attacks DID have an effect on him since cutting his skin and forcing edo regen is an effect, which is why the statement is false if analyzed by it's literal meaning thus it's hyperbole, the real message being translated is that their attacks were only cosmetically affecting him. But even then, that's not true since naruto claims the rasenshuriken didn't leave a scratch and didn't have an effect yet it did since it:
1) blew off his RnY
2) incapacitated him long enough for the sealing squad to get their robes around him
both of which are factors that affect his performance, not purely cosmetic affects like cuts on skin.
So nope, it's hyperbole as I've explained.
Hashirama was stating the obvious: that naruto's attack didn't defeat MAdara, and that's due to madara being an edo tensei.
If your false translation were actually true, then hashirama would be attributing durability to madara and attack power to the rasenshuriken that's vastly out of line with the evidence from the rest of the manga. There are tons of statements in the manga that aren't literally true, so there's no reason why hashirama's statement has to be taken literal when it's such a contradiction to the manga. Part of what makes an argument a good one is it's explanatory power or scope. If we have an enormous amount of evidence against an argument, and we have a defeater for the assertion that all manga statements are literally true, then the argument that has the most evidence supporting it is the most plausible even if the alternative argument is supported by a direct quote from the manga. If your argument is so bad that you have to literally run away every time someone asks you about the necessary beliefs you'd have to maintain in order for your argument to be possibly true, then your argument is probably extremely weak.
But anyways, if anyone other than Sage456 is reading this, I'd like you to please leave your feedback. In all honesty, I felt like I've been up against one of the most shamelessly dishonest people I've ever met on NB in this debate, so if you have been following, I'd like to hear your objective and honest opinions about the arguments brought forth by both sides.
