[VS] Katakuri VS

[Punk Hazard]

The problem is that we know nothing about 2 out of the 3 people in this fight. It's silly. Of course I think that Katakuri wins all scenario's after the current introduction. But that has to be the only logical conclusion that everybody has after the last chapter. So the point is that there isn't much flesh on the bone in this thread.

If for some reason Katakuri is a jellybean man with the jelly jelly fruit and has a soft center, and Ichiji has an ability that counters that really well, or if Sanji thinks of a way to dissolve the jelly with a recipe. Then we have something to discuss.

But for now it's a scary man throwing Jelly beans vs a grumpy man in a cape and Sanji. Bounty and rank mean nothing. Especially when you're on the side of the enemy because that means that you will go down sooner or later. And there is no one in the alliance close to that bounty. So that begs the question how ? And until that is revealed there is no use guessing if a made up attack of Ichiji can surpass the unknown CoO capabilities of Dogtooth.



oooh he has a rang ? Please let me change my prediction and make an uneducated guess. Your way of thinking is so much more logical than mine. Geez look at me not making any baseless accusations.

^^^bingo. Notice how most of the discussion is just how this isn't a match-up or will Sanji be strong enough by Wano.

I can say Sanji low-diffs Katakuri, you can say Katakuri low-diffs Sanji, and neither of us will be able to say anything that proves ourselves right or the other wrong.

Also gotta love how people are actually saying "Capome feared Katakuri more than Big Mom" when

1. He fears a special ability of Katakuri's that isn't even based on combat power

2. Capone spent an entire chapter talking about how much of a monster Big Mom is, while he spoke literally one sentence talking about a special power that is specifically bad suited for this specific plan.

It's like saying Mr. 3 is more powerful than Magellan because his wax could absorb his poison. Just nothing but foolishness in this thread.

I see what you're saying, but this post right here is exactly what I like to read and this is what I was looking for.. theories and ideas.. using our imagination sometimes..

So you made this thread for us to write a collaborative fan fiction then?

Okay, Sanji low-diffs Katakuri because his name is a reference to potato starch and a flower, both of which stand no chance against fire, which Sanji uses.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

None has a chance of winning considering Katakuri is Cracker level.

 

[Capn]

Katakuri slaughters them both, low-diff.

Greatest CoO feat in the verse, highest known bounty in the verse, is Yonkou's de-facto First Mate. That's enough to call this a low-diff, tbh. Especially when scaling from weaker commanders, ie; Cracker.

 

[KCN]

Katakuri obviously destroys them, but discussing it is pointless. We've just been introduced to Katakuri.

 

[chopstickchakra]

And its not like Capone fear's him more than Big Mom lol

Alright let's squash this now. Bege fears his risk to his plan more than he fears BM ruining his plan but nothing suggests he fears Katakuri over BM other than in regards to his plans.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Katakuri obviously destroys them, but discussing it is pointless. We've just been introduced to Katakuri.

How's it obvious?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Katakuri slaughters them both, low-diff.

Greatest CoO feat in the verse, highest known bounty in the verse, is Yonkou's de-facto First Mate. That's enough to call this a low-diff, tbh. Especially when scaling from weaker commanders, ie; Cracker.

Is it really the greatest CoO feat though? I mean we saw Luffy do the same thing pre skip even if it was subconscious and couldn't we argue Usopp's (as of now) unique use of CoO(most likely what it was if it wasn't stated, I can't remember) to discern an individuals aura from a distance so far away he couldn't actually see their bodies could be just as "great" as seeing a few seconds into the future? As far as we know Katakuri has to see you to see the future so if someone could use CoO to identify him and hit him from so far out he couldn't see them to predict the attack then that CoO would be "greater" than the foresight CoO in that situation, no?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I think Katakuri would help Sanji a lot in his observ haki. I like Sanji so I don't wanna see him go up against a guy like that one on one.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

How's it obvious?

Because some of us actually have foresight greater than that of a toddler.

 

[David1996]

How can we know man ? For **** sake.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Because some of us actually have foresight greater than that of a toddler.

Foresight based on what though? Him being a Emperor's commander doesn't mean he's in the same league as every other Emperor's commander.

Marco could hold a charging Akainu backwards and stop him from advancing. Meanwhile, Curiel was mowed down by Akainu off-panel, and Ace was one-shot by Akainu. In the same breath, Jozu was reduced to a chair for Doflamingo, someone regularly regarded as below Admiral level, and very well may be. The commanders of an Emperor's crew don't fall neatly in line with each other in terms of strength, but vary greatly, so there's no guarantee that Katakuri is stronger or even as strong as Cracker.

It's also illogical to say that Katakuri is the strongest commander since he was the last revealed, given that character introductions aren't determined by just strength. Daz Bones debuted after Crocodile, Katakuri debuted after Big Mom, Cracker debuted before the Commander he was stronger than that was defeated by Urouge, Doflamingo debuted before Pica, Rob Lucci debuted before Spandam, Ace debuted before Whitebeard, and the examples continue.

So what's really the line of logic here that leads to "Katakuri stomps Sanji?" Katakuri has no feats besides killing a fodder, no portrayal, and no hype aside from a technical ability that isn't even enough to say turns the tides of battle. You're all literally going on a cool design and killing a fodder.

If you wanna say you think Katakuri will end up being that strong, then that's fine, but don't act like the manga is telling you this. It's literally nothing more than a gut feeling that you're trying to put off as portrayal and hype when it's not.

 

[Bogard]

Katakuri will kill the entire Vinsmokes in the past, present and the future before they'd even know what happened :yeah:

 

[Capn]

Is it really the greatest CoO feat though? I mean we saw Luffy do the same thing pre skip even if it was subconscious and couldn't we argue Usopp's (as of now) unique use of CoO(most likely what it was if it wasn't stated, I can't remember) to discern an individuals aura from a distance so far away he couldn't actually see their bodies could be just as "great" as seeing a few seconds into the future? As far as we know Katakuri has to see you to see the future so if someone could use CoO to identify him and hit him from so far out he couldn't see them to predict the attack then that CoO would be "greater" than the foresight CoO in that situation, no?

I'd have to disagree, my friend. I'd say discerning auras is a rather basic form of CoO seeing as it was the first one Usopp unlocked and was the form Sanji used in Nami's body on PH. Fuji does it 24/7. The only trait one can say is possibly unique to Usopp (which I highly doubt, tbh) is the zoom function, which, unless you're a sniper, is pretty irrelevant. Also, it would just be a zoomed in version of the most seen and utilized version of CoO.

And you'll have to remind me, when did Luffy see into the future PTS? I'm not recalling that whatsoever.

That is quite the specific and unlikely scenario. Lol. But yeah, in the very odd scene that someone is camping 20 km away on WCI and staring him down without his knowledge with a one-shot gun then he'd be pretty ****ed. Though, I can't imagine Usopp's haki being any more helpful in that situation. That is, unless Katakuri is a sniper with those jelly beans and actually knows he's there. And seeing into the future would allow him to predict being hit by the sniper and avoid it entirely. That's pretty awesome, I'd say.

My only thing is that Katakuri's feat is the first of its kind and was stated to be something achieved through intense training in the field. When we look at everything on the table, it's simply the best feat thus far.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'd have to disagree, my friend. I'd say discerning auras is a rather basic form of CoO seeing as it was the first one Usopp unlocked and was the form Sanji used in Nami's body on PH. Fuji does it 24/7. The only trait one can say is possibly unique to Usopp (which I highly doubt, tbh) is the zoom function, which, unless you're a sniper, is pretty irrelevant. Also, it would just be a zoomed in version of the most seen and utilized version of CoO.

And you'll have to remind me, when did Luffy see into the future PTS? I'm not recalling that whatsoever.

That is an awfully specific and unlikely scenario. Lol. But yeah, in the very odd scene that someone is camping 20 km away on WCI and staring him down without his knowledge with a one-shot gun then he'd be pretty ****ed. Though, I can't imagine Usopp's haki being any more helpful in that situation. That is, unless Katakuri is a sniper with those jelly beans and actually knows he's there. And seeing into the future would allow to predict being hit by the sniper entirely and avoid it. That's pretty awesome, I'd say.

My only thing is that Katakuri's feat is the first of its kind and was stated to be something achieved through intense training in the field. When we look at everything on the table, it's simply the best feat thus far.

They're referring to when Luffy saw Mihawk slice off his arms at Marineford. He was about to perform a Bazooka, and an image of it flashed in his head, so he directed his Bazooka at the ground in front of himself instead.

 

[KCN]

How's it obvious?

Portrayal, clearly. Him being a sweet commander and the strongest one at that (if Oda isn't trolling), automatically puts him way above the Vinsmokes. Lets not pretend like being a Yonkou commander is something to scoff at.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Portrayal, clearly. Him being a sweet commander and the strongest one at that (if Oda isn't trolling), automatically puts him way above the Vinsmokes. Lets not pretend like being a Yonkou commander is something to scoff at.

In which case, I direct you to this post.

I also implore you to prove that the Vinsmokes or Sanji isn't on the level of a Commander.

Foresight based on what though? Him being a Emperor's commander doesn't mean he's in the same league as every other Emperor's commander.

Marco could hold a charging Akainu backwards and stop him from advancing. Meanwhile, Curiel was mowed down by Akainu off-panel, and Ace was one-shot by Akainu. In the same breath, Jozu was reduced to a chair for Doflamingo, someone regularly regarded as below Admiral level, and very well may be. The commanders of an Emperor's crew don't fall neatly in line with each other in terms of strength, but vary greatly, so there's no guarantee that Katakuri is stronger or even as strong as Cracker.

It's also illogical to say that Katakuri is the strongest commander since he was the last revealed, given that character introductions aren't determined by just strength. Daz Bones debuted after Crocodile, Katakuri debuted after Big Mom, Cracker debuted before the Commander he was stronger than that was defeated by Urouge, Doflamingo debuted before Pica, Rob Lucci debuted before Spandam, Ace debuted before Whitebeard, and the examples continue.

So what's really the line of logic here that leads to "Katakuri stomps Sanji?" Katakuri has no feats besides killing a fodder, no portrayal, and no hype aside from a technical ability that isn't even enough to say turns the tides of battle. You're all literally going on a cool design and killing a fodder.

If you wanna say you think Katakuri will end up being that strong, then that's fine, but don't act like the manga is telling you this. It's literally nothing more than a gut feeling that you're trying to put off as portrayal and hype when it's not.

 

[Capn]

They're referring to when Luffy saw Mihawk slice off his arms at Marineford. He was about to perform a Bazooka, and an image of it flashed in his head, so he directed his Bazooka at the ground in front of himself instead.

Ah. Yeah, I doubt that was foresight. So much so that I didn't even consider that scene when he mentioned it. It was just mental imagery. If I'm standing in front of a windmill of spinning blades, I can pretty clearly imagine the result of sticking my hands inside.

Luffy was charging the bazooka, realized that it wasn't a good idea because f*cking Mihawk and then opted against it. That panel was just him imagining the result.

 

[KCN]

In which case, I direct you to this post.

I also implore you to prove that the Vinsmokes or Sanji isn't on the level of a Commander.

If Sanji beats Katakuri then Luffy would knock BM clean out. There really isn't a discussion to be had when something so obvious is staring right at you. I'd understand this dispute if we were discussing whether Katakuri would beat Doflamingo, someone who logically should be on similar levels. This is Sanji, you're lucky if he beats Vergo mate nevermind a sweet commander with a bounty exceeding a billion.

 

[Punk Hazard]

If Sanji beats Katakuri then Luffy would knock BM clean out.

What?

There really isn't a discussion to be had when something so obvious is staring right at you. I'd understand this dispute if we were discussing whether Katakuri would beat Doflamingo, someone who logically should be on similar levels.

The problem here is that "Emperor Commander level" is that the power we've seen in it has wildly fluctuated. We have Jozu who was a stool for Doflamingo, and Marco who was able to hold down Akainu, the latter of whom killed Ace without so much as breaking a sweat.

This is Sanji, you're lucky if he beats Vergo mate nevermind a sweet commander with a bounty exceeding a billion.

What feats, hype, or portrayal does Katakuri has that definitively puts him above Sanji by this much? Being a commander isn't one.

Again, there's nothing wrong with having a blind gut feeling that that's the case, but that's all it is.

 

[KCN]

What?


The problem here is that "Emperor Commander level" is that the power we've seen in it has wildly fluctuated. We have Jozu who was a stool for Doflamingo, and Marco who was able to hold down Akainu, the latter of whom killed Ace without so much as breaking a sweat.



What feats, hype, or portrayal does Katakuri has that definitively puts him above Sanji by this much? Being a commander isn't one.

Again, there's nothing wrong with having a blind gut feeling that that's the case, but that's all it is.

I've noticed you seem to like to collectively group these Yonko commanders in the same bracket. Making decisions based on that is simply an irrational conclusion, as commander selection differs per Yonko. On one hand, you have WB who is clearly a genuine man who simply wants a family to love, and isn't as interested in materialism or power as much as the other Yonko. Then you have BM who created a big family strictly for power purposes to further her own agendas. If she's that motivated by power, then we can conclude that her choices for her top commanders will be quite a big stricter than WB's, who really isn't worried about all that. Jozu likewise was holding his own VS Kuzan. That Doflamingo comparison doesn't hold unless Doflamingo embarrasses him on an even playing field. Sure he got caught, but who's to say he gets caught in the first place in a fair 1v1? Ace too, doesn't really hold. The guy was still raw and his DF wasn't helping against Akainu was it?

My point on the first statement was that if the 3rd strongest strawhat can beat the potentially second, even 3rd strongest BM pirate, then really and truly Luffy should be on BM's level, as we already know Luffy is comfortably above Sanji atm. It's a ridiculous thought, putting a man with a 1billion+ bounty on the same level as Sanji. Luffy struggled and needed support with Cracker, implied to be inferior on his bounty, yet "we still don't know". We don't have to be explicitly told these things when it's this clear. In this case we can use bounties too. They're both sweet commanders. They're both villains. Dogtooth is simply the bigger threat.