[VS] Kakuzu vs. Terumi Mei

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Nattana

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Was this purposely made to make it hard to counter? Considering you wrote your reply within the quote as to make it unquotable.

Anyways, Suiton does not pack a wind force behind it to move objects. That's like saying waves in the sea have the directional wind force to move clouds in comparison and equivalence to a powerful wind gust. It doesn't take a genius to realise water cannot generate as much wind as a wind gust itself would, saying otherwise is naive. A water dragon itself also does not create a powerful wind force around it, it simply creates a powerful mass wherever it is present and moving towards. Fuuton like Atsugai is wind itself, thus it can push things towards an opposite direction. Why? Because it is wind, this is logical..

Mei gives her Suiton a pushing force.
And about the rest? Tell that to Madara's Susanoo.
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Her being tired does not lead to her hand seals becoming slow. Her body is exhausted, and she is running low on chakra, that does not mean her fingers are now in lack of speed, not remotely. Tsunade reacting was because of the Byakugo, however, Mei didn't react not because she was exhausted, but because her hand seal speed is slow. Anyways, that just comes to show Tsunade was capable of jumping in front of Mei before Mei could even finish her prep, signifying she isn't as fast you are making her out to be.

She finished her hand seal lol. What are you even talking about? She just couldn't execute her jutsu in time. And Tsunade was under the Byakugou Seal effect - fresh and constantly healed.

Kakuzu's reaction speed movement speed (via shunshin) are more than enough to evade those slow moving lava quantities. Has anyone even been hit yet by the lava without having initially evaded? No. Saying the lava is quick enough to hit Kakuzu would be amusing. Sasuke was capable of evading her quickest moving Youton while his back was turned to her and his body was exhausted [ ]. Saying Kakuzu would fail to do so with his immense reaction speed would be inaccurate.

Kakuzu has Shunshin? Mind reminding me that part? Moreover, I was refering to immobile Kakuzu in Domu - if he dares to use it.

He doesn't get hit, and even if he is hit, it will most likely be a partial body Domu, not a full body Domu. This would mean he cans till freely move regardless of the Youton on his body. Anyways, even if he will absolutely be hit by the Youton, the correct method of defence is not Doton, but rather having his near infinite threads take the attack, and then cut them off.

Partial body Domu isn't saving him from and no Domu at all isn't saving him either from all the lava left on the ground.
With Youton temperature and stickiness, he's not having enough time to do any of these thread things you mentioned.

You are correct, it is likely Hiding like a Mole knowing the fact tendrils could not move under such pressure underground. However, I fail to see why Hiding like a Mole would have any negative impact on Kakuzu. No jutsu will be capable of reaching him down there. Water will have no effects as it won't pass through the sand like underground after kakuzu has passed it. Youton is to viscous to even move through there. Futton has shown to be localised instead of a constantly dispersing jutsu, so it will also not be capable of reaching underground (let alone having effect if it does). Furthermore, nothing suggests he cannot use a full body Hiding like a mole if he can use it with one hand, meaning any Youton is evaded with this, and sneak attack can be created with this to restrain Mei's movements, while Gian charges an attack to decapitate Mei.

I never said it was Hiding like a Mole. It must've been some Doton jutsu to enable his hand move underground. And he's never shown an ability to do that with his whole body, especially other hearts not wielding Earth Release.

Do not compare Kakashi's speed to Mei's sharingan or not. Nothing suggests Shikamaru would've ever made it in time to counter, he merely attempted to do counter, as why not try when you have a slight chance?

But Shikamaru DID react to it... It doesn't matter if it was something hidden in the scroll, a kunai or a sealed Kyuubi in his pocket. He was going to attempt to counter Gian but Kakashi was first. He was a Chuunin with 2.5 in speed. But maybe you want to tell me that Mei isn't faster than that?

Anyways, Mei will have to react in time, but of course, her reaction speed feats do not even compare to the likes of Kakashi's. She will have to jump? Yet she has no notable feats of instantaneously jumping without any running, seeing as though that requires immense strength to pull off, which she has no proof of. Evade? No, especially if two are coming at her. Anyways, I have already mentioned a tendril through the ground to catch her feet while Gian is being charged will cause her to either be caught or be distracted, either or; she ends up dying. For your point of her countering, I can't tell fi you are being serious. Kakashi countered with Raikiri, also known as Lightning cutter. It was foreshadowed it was so sharp he can cut bolts of lightning with it, so for obvious reasons, he countered Gian. Mei can counter with what exactly? Youton? No. Fuuton? No. Suiton? No, unless she wants to die from the water conducting the Raiton.

Lol, lava-covered ground (in case she misses with Youton) creates a perfect CQC and underground defense. He's neither coming close to Mei as long as she's in the lava nor sending any underground hands, since they would burn before even getting through the lava layer.
And considering that Ino had time to warn them and THEN Kakashi jumped in and THEN he countered Gian, Mei could easily JUST dodge it.
 

TheEvilOne

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@Narutoindra

Mei's handseal speed is extremely fast. She used a water formation pillar to extinguish Madara's Katon then she quickly used a Water Dragon which sent flying him into the air.


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Zabuza needed like 10 seconds to make a water dragon, because it requires 42 hanseals.
 

NarutoIndra

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Mei gives her Suiton a pushing force.
And about the rest? Tell that to Madara's Susanoo.
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Lel, you clearly fail to see my point. It really isn't hat hard to understand. Wind will create a directional force round the entire area, while water can only move what it is touching, and maybe a few inches around it. It isn't moving things that are far out as it isn't creating an AOE directional force, in contrast to Fuuton. Your point remains moot.

She finished her hand seal lol. What are you even talking about? She just couldn't execute her jutsu in time. And Tsunade was under the Byakugou Seal effect - fresh and constantly healed.
She finished her hand seal, true. It depends how you look at it, but either way its positive towards Kakuzu and negative towards Mei. Finished hand seals at the last second and couldn't use jutsu in time. Or, Mei's Suiton takes a long time to be released from her mouth, hence, fact still remains exhaustion had no effect on her speed of execution.


Kakuzu has Shunshin? Mind reminding me that part? Moreover, I was refering to immobile Kakuzu in Domu - if he dares to use it.

Pedantic attitude I guess. Anyways, Kakuzu's speed with to without shunshin is amazing, so anyway you look at it your point remains at a halt. His speed demonstrations? [ ][ ][ ][ ] These are more than enough to dodge Youton, and if you are in belief she can predict his movements and counter, she cannot, seeing as though all it would take is a swift movement similar to this [ ] while running incase she uses projectiles. He will not use, it nor does he have any reason to use such an ability against the likes of Mei.

Partial body Domu isn't saving him from and no Domu at all isn't saving him either from all the lava left on the ground.
With Youton temperature and stickiness, he's not having enough time to do any of these thread things you mentioned.

Remind me why a partial body wouldn't be effective? Anyways, your points seem to be contradictory. You have already mentioned Youton will harden, and seeing how quick it hardened in her fight with Sasuke, I see no reason as to why in this scenario, it would remain liquid and hot. It's initial temperature will rapidly cool upon contact with the much cooler surroundings. The battlefield will never be completely covered by Youton, since it will eventually harden. Anyways, Atsugai moves it away from that location. Masks effortlessly dodge by their immense jumping heights.

Why not? Only because it's viscous doesn't mean it will burn faster. Only because it is hot doesn't mean it will instantly burn every thread in his body. I already said, due to its slow speed, Kakuzu can move threads out of his body, and cut off any affected areas. No argument will nullify such a choice of action unless you are willing to bring in some Youton speed feats, which up to this point, have shown to be rather slow.


I never said it was Hiding like a Mole. It must've been some Doton jutsu to enable his hand move underground. And he's never shown an ability to do that with his whole body, especially other hearts not wielding Earth Release.

You said it is probably like "Hiding like a Mole" but whatever. He doesn't need it in the first place since every time she fires a Youton, she can expect Kakuzu to doge, and the Raiton mask to counter with Gian.

But Shikamaru DID react to it... It doesn't matter if it was something hidden in the scroll, a kunai or a sealed Kyuubi in his pocket. He was going to attempt to counter Gian but Kakashi was first. He was a Chuunin with 2.5 in speed. But maybe you want to tell me that Mei isn't faster than that?
You should re-read then if that's what you think. Look at the pervious page. All the masks are stationary, yet Shikamaru has the scroll in his hand already [ ]. By the time he fully opened the scroll, Gian was right next to him. Saying Mei's speed is quicker than opening a scroll is revolved around baseless assumptions. Not only would she have to completely avoid the Gian, she would also have to avoid the tendrils trying to ensnare her feet. Saying she can do both at once, when the ration mask decides to shoot two thunder bolts to cover a larger area on a horizontal axis, is once again based on nothing but assumptions.


Lol, lava-covered ground (in case she misses with Youton) creates a perfect CQC and underground defense. He's neither coming close to Mei as long as she's in the lava nor sending any underground hands, since they would burn before even getting through the lava layer.
And considering that Ino had time to warn them and THEN Kakashi jumped in and THEN he countered Gian, Mei could easily JUST dodge it.

Le, I guess you fail to realise once lava hardens, it is bypassed with the Doton technique seeing the fact that techniques similar to hiding like a mole can go through any surface regardless of its properties, let alone hardened lava which is igneous rock (that is bypassed with the doton tech, it's rock after all). None of this gives her the opportunity to evade Atsugai, which will not only crush Mei, but also sweep away the lava on the floor if it isn't hardened. If it's hardened, then all for the btter in regards to Kakuzu. Are you dying she's standing in the lava? Really? Lelllll. That means that Gian one shots her 0.5 moving speed. Lava is up to 100,000 times as viscous as water, she isn't moving in it swiftly at all. She'l be comparable to a real life slug. More so, once the lava has hardened, she has no where to go, she's simply setting her self up for Gian. No she cannot, reaction time=/=movement speed. Anyways, she said it while it was being charged. By the time it was fired, there was nothing to do to be honest, other than wait for Kakashi. On the other hand, Atsugai can serve as a smoke screen for Gian, which ends up attacking from the sky, unanticipated may I add.
 

TheEvilOne

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Kakuzu is only as fast as Shizune and Kurenai, his speed isn't amazing at all.
 

Nattana

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Lel, you clearly fail to see my point. It really isn't hat hard to understand. Wind will create a directional force round the entire area, while water can only move what it is touching, and maybe a few inches around it. It isn't moving things that are far out as it isn't creating an AOE directional force, in contrast to Fuuton. Your point remains moot.


She finished her hand seal, true. It depends how you look at it, but either way its positive towards Kakuzu and negative towards Mei. Finished hand seals at the last second and couldn't use jutsu in time. Or, Mei's Suiton takes a long time to be released from her mouth, hence, fact still remains exhaustion had no effect on her speed of execution.




Pedantic attitude I guess. Anyways, Kakuzu's speed with to without shunshin is amazing, so anyway you look at it your point remains at a halt. His speed demonstrations? [ ][ ][ ][ ] These are more than enough to dodge Youton, and if you are in belief she can predict his movements and counter, she cannot, seeing as though all it would take is a swift movement similar to this [ ] while running incase she uses projectiles. He will not use, it nor does he have any reason to use such an ability against the likes of Mei.



Remind me why a partial body wouldn't be effective? Anyways, your points seem to be contradictory. You have already mentioned Youton will harden, and seeing how quick it hardened in her fight with Sasuke, I see no reason as to why in this scenario, it would remain liquid and hot. It's initial temperature will rapidly cool upon contact with the much cooler surroundings. The battlefield will never be completely covered by Youton, since it will eventually harden. Anyways, Atsugai moves it away from that location. Masks effortlessly dodge by their immense jumping heights.

Why not? Only because it's viscous doesn't mean it will burn faster. Only because it is hot doesn't mean it will instantly burn every thread in his body. I already said, due to its slow speed, Kakuzu can move threads out of his body, and cut off any affected areas. No argument will nullify such a choice of action unless you are willing to bring in some Youton speed feats, which up to this point, have shown to be rather slow.




You said it is probably like "Hiding like a Mole" but whatever. He doesn't need it in the first place since every time she fires a Youton, she can expect Kakuzu to doge, and the Raiton mask to counter with Gian.


You should re-read then if that's what you think. Look at the pervious page. All the masks are stationary, yet Shikamaru has the scroll in his hand already [ ]. By the time he fully opened the scroll, Gian was right next to him. Saying Mei's speed is quicker than opening a scroll is revolved around baseless assumptions. Not only would she have to completely avoid the Gian, she would also have to avoid the tendrils trying to ensnare her feet. Saying she can do both at once, when the ration mask decides to shoot two thunder bolts to cover a larger area on a horizontal axis, is once again based on nothing but assumptions.




Le, I guess you fail to realise once lava hardens, it is bypassed with the Doton technique seeing the fact that techniques similar to hiding like a mole can go through any surface regardless of its properties, let alone hardened lava which is igneous rock (that is bypassed with the doton tech, it's rock after all). None of this gives her the opportunity to evade Atsugai, which will not only crush Mei, but also sweep away the lava on the floor if it isn't hardened. If it's hardened, then all for the btter in regards to Kakuzu. Are you dying she's standing in the lava? Really? Lelllll. That means that Gian one shots her 0.5 moving speed. Lava is up to 100,000 times as viscous as water, she isn't moving in it swiftly at all. She'l be comparable to a real life slug. More so, once the lava has hardened, she has no where to go, she's simply setting her self up for Gian. No she cannot, reaction time=/=movement speed. Anyways, she said it while it was being charged. By the time it was fired, there was nothing to do to be honest, other than wait for Kakashi. On the other hand, Atsugai can serve as a smoke screen for Gian, which ends up attacking from the sky, unanticipated may I add.

By speed feats you mean when Kakuzu tried to sneak-attack Shikamaru but he managed to dodge it?
Saying that Mei is faster than 2.5 speed Shika is a baseless assumption?
Yes, Shika had his scrolls, but he wasn't opening them since he didn't know what was going to happen.
Lava's outside layer cools quickly, but deeper layers remain liquid and very hot for weeks after than.
And actually Mei's only speed feat is better than Kakuzu's based on what you posted.
 

NarutoIndra

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Kakuzu is only as fast as Shizune and Kurenai, his speed isn't amazing at all.
Lel. He blitzed Asuma with no difficulty. He's faster than Kakash while using his Raikiri. I don't see how you came to that pathetic conclusion. Kakuzu would have no difficulty keeping up with top tier speeds, let alone someone as slow as Mei.

By speed feats you mean when Kakuzu tried to sneak-attack Shikamaru but he managed to dodge it?
Saying that Mei is faster than 2.5 speed Shika is a baseless assumption?
Yes, Shika had his scrolls, but he wasn't opening them since he didn't know what was going to happen.
Lava's outside layer cools quickly, but deeper layers remain liquid and very hot for weeks after than.
And actually Mei's only speed feat is better than Kakuzu's based on what you posted.
What an insane counter..
I showed you what I meant with the scans, no need to repeat my self. He was faster than Kakashi.
Since when was Shika's speed considered opening a scroll? Idiotic.
Lol, you clearly know nothing about Science if you believe that is the case for such small scale lava like Mei's. If one is talking about Volcano's, absolutely. Mei's? Lel. Not only will Atsugai cool it heavily and completely move it, but also crush Mei as it comes her way.
So Mei is faster than Kakashi while using Raikiri? What's this? Mei is fast enough to blitz Asuma who not only didn't react, but also didn't notice? Mei's fast enough to cross an area where he's surrounded by two sides in a parallel view point, without them even reacting or moving a muscle? Lel, please show me this feat, I am dying to see it.
 
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Nattana

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Lel, please show me this feat, I am dying to see it.

She blitzed Black Zetsu, a sensor and, as proven in latest manga chapter, a character that outsped and outreacted Kakashi and Minato.

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TheEvilOne

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The Databook never lies. Kakuzu has 4 points in speed, just like Shizune, Kurenai and Chiyo. The fact that he blitzted Kakashi means nothing at all, considering he got later blitzed by base Naruto and considering ninjas like Shikamaru and Ino were able to react to his attacks/warn the others.
 

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She blitzed Black Zetsu, a sensor and, as proven in latest manga chapter, a character that outsped and outreacted Kakashi and Minato.

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I don't even know what to say to this... First of all Zetsu was caught completely off guard. It has already been proven he would need to be melding chakra to sense, and saying he was melding chakra at that point is unreasonable. He was caught off guard, simple as that. Moreover, he had already passed the peak of his momentum in the air, and was no dropping down. Saying he can somehow counter while in mid air and evade is again completely absurd. However, you do not even stop here with your ridiculous statement. You then go on to say he's faster then Kakashi and Mianto reaction and movement wise, a claim that is laughable at best.
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Zetsu's thumb is touching Obito. He saw Kakashi and Minato move their hands, and decided to merge with Obito. This does not mean he's faster in any way. For one, this wasn't shunshin speed, this was hand speed. Nothing has ever been suggested implying Minato's arms and hands are so fast the human eye cannot react, neither has it been for Kakashi. More so, Zetsu being capable to react by observing is not remotely equivalent to Zetsu reacting without noticing, sensing, or having any time to react due to being air-borne. Ignorance is bliss.
 

NarutoIndra

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The Databook never lies. Kakuzu has 4 points in speed, just like Shizune, Kurenai and Chiyo. The fact that he blitzted Kakashi means nothing at all, considering he got later blitzed by base Naruto and considering ninjas like Shikamaru and Ino were able to react to his attacks/warn the others.
DB never lies? I have seen you on multiple occasions saying DB is wrong. He got blitzed By naruto? No, he got bun shin feinted, not blitzed. They reacted to his prep, not his actual attack. The only thing that occurred was Shikamaru's hands being quick enough to open a scroll. Saying that is evidence of Mei being able to counter is deductive fallacy. Go ahead and counter my previous argument with Natana. I guarantee that your reasoning is flawed and you will realise that Kakuzu has all the means to win this battle. I am going off feats, not by DB. If you are willing to take the DB into consideration to such an extent to compare his speed with others, than I am willing to negate the majority of your upcoming posts regarding Mei and Tsunade by bringing DB references against them, your choice.
 

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He didn't get blitzed by Base Naruto :| He got "fooled" By base Naruto.
 

Shura

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The Databook never lies. Kakuzu has 4 points in speed, just like Shizune, Kurenai and Chiyo. The fact that he blitzted Kakashi means nothing at all, considering he got later blitzed by base Naruto and considering ninjas like Shikamaru and Ino were able to react to his attacks/warn the others.

Databook shows only their base speed, not their shunshin. Now shut up about that.
 

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His shunsin has been displayed multiple times ._.

Read the fight against Asuma and Co.
 

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What the?

Kakuzu wins mid diff at the most lol

OP add a poll!
 
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