Kusanagi that Orochimaru wields, is a special sword that can change both to snake and a sword - you may have noticed that already. While fighting Itachi, after sealed, the snake was extracted from Orochimaru and tragically after a small forest fire caused by Amaterasu it burned and even if teleported, it was destroyed [
]. I'd find it more likely that the snake was some form of Orochimaru's consciousness trying to escape than the sword which for some unknown reason can't keep a constant form.
Though the sword's a minor thing all in all, not required to win, it just makes everything easier.
]. I'd find it more likely that the snake was some form of Orochimaru's consciousness trying to escape than the sword which for some unknown reason can't keep a constant form.
Though the sword's a minor thing all in all, not required to win, it just makes everything easier.
]. Totsuka seals souls, and as Kusanagi may or not have a soul, since only Orochimaru was pierced he was sealed hence why Sasuke and the snake remained intact [
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I agree, the appearance looks different. But there's no doubt that that sword is the Kusanagi. Also, without the sword Kakuzu would never pull out his hearts nor be affected by any of his attacks as long as he has Domu. If he however does, Orochimaru will be targeting straight at the heart where lies the mask of Suiton - which is since featless, does not affect his performance in the battle at all. While not also possessing summons, Orochimaru is at great disadvantage and loses mid-difficulty.
]. Totsuka seals souls, and as Kusanagi may or not have a soul, since only Orochimaru was pierced he was sealed hence why Sasuke and the snake remained intact [
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I agree, the appearance looks different. But there's no doubt that that sword is the Kusanagi. Also, without the sword Kakuzu would never pull out his hearts nor be affected by any of his attacks as long as he has Domu. If he however does, Orochimaru will be targeting straight at the heart where lies the mask of Suiton - which is since featless, does not affect his performance in the battle at all. While not also possessing summons, Orochimaru is at great disadvantage and loses mid-difficulty.
The entire subject is a minor thing, I'm really not petty enough to argue with you on the Kusanagi blade. I'd respond to the rest, but Zexion has already agreed to debate me on the issue.
The entire subject is a minor thing, I'm really not petty enough to argue with you on the Kusanagi blade. I'd respond to the rest, but Zexion has already agreed to debate me on the issue.
Although I agree that Kakuzu loses this match, he is not going to lose so easily as many keep saying. Oro biggest threat will be the number of hearts that surround him with elemental attacks. If Oro fights Kakuzu in a straight CQC 1 on 1, then Kakuzu's masks will help protect him. If we are including the Zetsu body then Oro can create bunshins of clones to help balance the numbers;
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But if the Zetsu body is restricted then he can just create a magnitude of snake summons to help deal with those hearts. Kakuzu's Gian can be countered by a single Fuuton move;
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This was able to destroy as section of the forest, and since Fuuton >> Raiton, then Gian is useless.
Oro will have some trouble breaking through Kakuzu's Domu armor due to the lack of fire-power, however, he can use his sword of Kusunagi that was hyped to cut an object as hard as diamond;
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But, Kakuzu's Domu was hyped in the Databook to have skin as hard as diamond;
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Enma said that Kusanagi could pierce through him, but pierce and cut are two different things. Domu is strong, but it's possible that Kusanagi can do it. While Kusanagi didn't pierce the 4 tailed Naruto, it still pushed him back with incredible force, so it's not weak by any means. This sword will cut through Kakuzu's armor and kill him if it comes in contact.
Kakuzu has nothing to take down Oro, due to his insane durability feats and prolonged stamina. He was able to fight on par with a 4tk Naruto, and mind you this was a sick Oro. Kakuzu in his transformed state got defeated by an FRS Naruto who just got finished training and was all bruised up. Oro can just create multiple snake summons to avoid the enemy. Manda will help him deal with the hearts while Oro goes for the real Kakuzu.
Kakuzu has literally 0% chances of beating Orochimaru. Debates are useless here. Domu is overrated. His elemental jutsu are a joke against high level shinobi, who can simply dodge/outrun them. Kakuzu is just mediocre. Hard to kill but that's it.
Also the speculations about Amaterasu having destroyed Kusanagi are funny as hell. Also even without Kusanagi, Domu is the last thing Kakuzu would want to use against Orochimaru.
I disagree. Nothing suggests Kusanagi would have pierced Enma. Domu shouldn't have much difficulty in stopping it. Oh? Kakuzu doesn't go completely immobile when using domu. That is the DB speaking of his full body Domu. Him only using Domu on where he is being struck would allow him to move all other body parts as easily as he would normally. Vanishing facial copy jutsu has never been shown in a fight, thus none of its characteristics are known i.e. prep. And chakra leech? The one he used to absorb his own chakra back?
Enma had known about Kusanagi before, yet was still worried about a clash with it - despite being in his Diamond Form. Also, prep for VFC? Lel. And about his chakra drain ability - so what you say is if for example Tenten got her chakra sucked by Kiba and then she touched him - she could take her chakra back? Nope she couldn't. It doesn't matter if Orochimaru took only his own chakra or Kabuto's as well - chakra draining is chakra draining - manga fact.
Moreover, using Domu (while not on his full body) still leaves him less mobile than when without using it. It's something you don't want to happen - especially when facing an opponent faster than you (Orochimaru is faster even in base - now add to it his Slithering Snake Mode) AND especially that he can seal your chakra with his exceptional Fuuinjutsu.
Databook clearly disagrees and speaks highly of its killing power and speed. The claw of v2 Naruto doesn't even begin to compare with piercing capabilities that can gouge rock. Are you trying to claim Oro's piercing durability is more than that of a rock?
Yes, Gian IS slow indeed. Kakashi managed to jump in front of it and counter it with his own jutsu, Ino managed to shout towards Shikamaru and Choji AND Shika managed to open his scroll trying to counter Gian himself in time the lightning bolts spent traveling towards them. Here, Orochimaru simply has to dodge it. Not a big deal especially that he is way faster than Kakuzu, Shikamaru, Ino, Choji.
3. soft physique won't help him from getting completely enveloped by tendrils to the point where he is immobile. They have already shown to easily pierce human skin and flesh, it shouldn't have any difficulty piercing Oro from where his chest and neck intersect.
Yeah, ofc. Someone faster than Kakuzu, with at least 3 separate sensory abilities and Soft Physique will get 'completely enveloped by tendrils'. Dream on.
4. That is a definite assumption. We had no screen time of Sasuke and cannot say said person didn't do it because he wasn't shown to do anything on a panel. When was this? The part 1 Snake in which Oro had popped of up from was not Oral rebirth, nor is there any indication implying so.
Actually we had screen time of Sasuke. The manga followed his story since him absorbing Orochimaru till his fight with Itachi. There was literally NO time he could spend on training, especially that he wanted to keep Orochimaru supressed. Also, if the feat Orochimaru displayed with his snake wasn't his Body Replacement, then I guess we can agree that Orochimaru has an ability of merging with bodies of other beings and destrying them from inside. Cool, that's even creepier and more lethal.
Fight would be quite long, and Kakuzu would end up winning high diff. Oh, and now that I read UchihaNagashi's comment, I do recall Oro's Kusanagi sword having been burned down by amateratsu. This means Kakuzu can just kick him around with Domu with 0 chance of ever being damaged. He may not even need to use Domu half the time.
Kusanagi has never been burnt down by Amaterasu. It's some haters' fanfiction. Orochimaru escaped Totsuka with his small snakes and they got killed by Amaterasu. Where is Kusanagi in there? Nowhere. Kusanagi is bound to Orochimaru's soul as seen when even after losing his Kusanagi to Enma, he got it back somehow. And since Oro's soul and consciousness was present in Cursed Seals, Kusanagi stayed with him.
Enma had known about Kusanagi before, yet was still worried about a clash with it - despite being in his Diamond Form. Also, prep for VFC? Lel. And about his chakra drain ability - so what you say is if for example Tenten got her chakra sucked by Kiba and then she touched him - she could take her chakra back? Nope she couldn't. It doesn't matter if Orochimaru took only his own chakra or Kabuto's as well - chakra draining is chakra draining - manga fact.
Moreover, using Domu (while not on his full body) still leaves him less mobile than when without using it. It's something you don't want to happen - especially when facing an opponent faster than you (Orochimaru is faster even in base - now add to it his Slithering Snake Mode) AND especially that he can seal your chakra with his exceptional Fuuinjutsu.
Enma said it will be a sore, nothing implies it will have the capability to pierce through him. Considering this, Kakuzu should be perfectly fine as his Domu has no feelings. Show me some scans of VFC being used in combat, I don't recall. `no, what I am saying is that he has been shown to have the capability to absorb back his own chakra. nothing suggests he can do something similar to preta path or Mukoton and straight up absorb chakra from someone. However, I do not mind he could, this would be a perfect opportunity for Kakuzu to end this while Oro stands their aimlessly putting has hand on a very mobile Kakuzu. Please show me some proof of this. It has been shown many times, he is mobile whilst the usage of Domu. This scan demonstrates his insane speed and his ability to be mobile whilst using domu on his hand [
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] [
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]. Orochimaru is faster? Since when, I would love to see some of this speed you speak of. Naruto in v2? We have seen Kakashi ward off and fight on par with these beasts [
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], do note there are many present while Oro was fighting only one with 4 tails (Kakashi was fighting a 5 tailed one), a much easier task. Furthermore, Kakashi's speed was nothing in front of Kakuzu, who blitzed Kakashi whilst going at maximum speed, since Raikir was said to be his max speed and not even viable without a sharingan. Yet, while Kakuzu was on the floor and Kakashi was running, Kakuzu still managed to out-speed him and kick him away [
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]. Orochimaru has no speed feat that matches up with this one, slithering snake mode or not, unless you have scans. And no, Orochimaru cannot seal someone's chakra like he did with Naruto. That seal is clearly not for everyone, as stated in the DB
]Five Elements* Seal (五行封印, Gogyou Fuuin)
Fuuinjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
User: Orochimaru
[picture of Orochimaru performing the Five Element Seal on Naruto]
[picture of the kanji for the Five Elements appearing on Orochimaru's fingertips]
→The moment the "Five Elements Seal" is used, Orochimaru concentrates wicked chakra to his five fingertips!
A demonic seal carved to disturb the Kyuubi's power~~
To disturb the effect of the "Four Images Seal" the Yondaime Hokage performed on Naruto, Orochimaru sealed Naruto once more. Because the "Five Element Seal," an odd-numbered seal, was put on top of the even-numbered "Four Images Seal"**, the Kyuubi's chakra was prevented from returning to Naruto. From then on, Naruto's own chakra and that of the Kyuubi's became jumbled and Naruto lost the ability to skilfully control it.
*Gogyou (五行) refers to the five elements from Chinese philosophy: Metal (金, Chinese: Jīn), Wood (木, Chinese: Mù), Water (水, Chinese: Shuǐ), Fire (火, Chinese: Huǒ), and Earth (土, Chinese: Tǔ). The elemental techniques in Naruto use different elements: Earth (土, Tsuchi), Water (水, Mizu), Fire (火, Hi), Wind (風, Kaze), and Lightning (雷, Kaminari). Those are based on the five elements from Japanese philosophy, the Godai (五大): Earth (地, Chi), Water (水, Sui), Fire (火, Ka), Wind (風, Fuu), and Void (空, Kuu).
**Four Images Seal (四象封印, Shishou Fuuin)
Yes, Gian IS slow indeed. Kakashi managed to jump in front of it and counter it with his own jutsu, Ino managed to shout towards Shikamaru and Choji AND Shika managed to open his scroll trying to counter Gian himself in time the lightning bolts spent traveling towards them. Here, Orochimaru simply has to dodge it. Not a big deal especially that he is way faster than Kakuzu, Shikamaru, Ino, Choji.
He is not faster than Kakuzu until proven otherwise. Ino is a sensor, there is no reason for her not to have sensed it coming [
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]. Re-read the chapter. The scroll was already out, simply opening it obviously does not mean he is able to react and move away. Ino shouted before it was launched, possibly sensing it since she is a sensor and demonstrated her sensory in that fight already. Kakashi also 'saw through it' with his Sharingan, and immense speed with Raikiri.
Yeah, ofc. Someone faster than Kakuzu, with at least 3 separate sensory abilities and Soft Physique will get 'completely enveloped by tendrils'. Dream on.
I am talking about Orochimaru overextending, if he does indeed end up thinking he can absorb chakra and VFC Kakuzu like you think he will. 3 Sensory abilities? Lol? He can sense heat after communicating with snakes, it is not instant nor has he shown to use it (from what I recall). He's been put into genjutsu and he has never been capable of telling where the whereabouts of his opponents where, since his sensing is lack-luster. Please elaborate on this sensing you speak of..
Actually we had screen time of Sasuke. The manga followed his story since him absorbing Orochimaru till his fight with Itachi. There was literally NO time he could spend on training, especially that he wanted to keep Orochimaru supressed. Also, if the feat Orochimaru displayed with his snake wasn't his Body Replacement, then I guess we can agree that Orochimaru has an ability of merging with bodies of other beings and destrying them from inside. Cool, that's even creepier and more lethal.
Once again, you are assuming we are being shown every day experience when that isn't necessarily the case. This isn't a daily diary, it's a manga, panels do not have set time frames as don't chapters. The assumption you are making is based on blind faith and I have 0 reason to accept such a feat being handed to Oro. Wut. He simply could merge with his snake for unkown reasons, there's no indication that he can do this to normal people nor is their any indication it has anything to do with Oral rebirth. Stop trying to give your beloved Oro feats he doesn't have.
Kusanagi has never been burnt down by Amaterasu. It's some haters' fanfiction. Orochimaru escaped Totsuka with his small snakes and they got killed by Amaterasu. Where is Kusanagi in there? Nowhere. Kusanagi is bound to Orochimaru's soul as seen when even after losing his Kusanagi to Enma, he got it back somehow. And since Oro's soul and consciousness was present in Cursed Seals, Kusanagi stayed with him.
Kakuzu has literally 0% chances of beating Orochimaru. Debates are useless here. Domu is overrated. His elemental jutsu are a joke against high level shinobi, who can simply dodge/outrun them. Kakuzu is just mediocre. Hard to kill but that's it.
Also the speculations about Amaterasu having destroyed Kusanagi are funny as hell. Also even without Kusanagi, Domu is the last thing Kakuzu would want to use against Orochimaru.
This is a fight without intel, where no matter what physical jutsu he's up against he will use Domu to counter it [
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]. It's not also speculation, check the scans the Kusanagi snake is clearly destroyed and you yourself debated with me about there being only one true Kusanagi that was the snake.
Even if they are joke, Orochimaru's are even worse; he has nothing on Kakuzu that can penetrate his defense nor hypothetically or canonically anymore. Kakuzu only proceeds to beat him to dust with Taijutsu.
Kusanagi has never been burnt down by Amaterasu. It's some haters' fanfiction. Orochimaru escaped Totsuka with his small snakes and they got killed by Amaterasu. Where is Kusanagi in there? Nowhere. Kusanagi is bound to Orochimaru's soul as seen when even after losing his Kusanagi to Enma, he got it back somehow. And since Oro's soul and consciousness was present in Cursed Seals, Kusanagi stayed with him.
Souls cannot escape, as he cannot extract a part of his soul into a snake while the Totsuka seals him. In DB, it's stated that not matter is sealed, but the souls.
Enma said it will be a sore, nothing implies it will have the capability to pierce through him. Considering this, Kakuzu should be perfectly fine as his Domu has no feelings. Show me some scans of VFC being used in combat, I don't recall. `no, what I am saying is that he has been shown to have the capability to absorb back his own chakra. nothing suggests he can do something similar to preta path or Mukoton and straight up absorb chakra from someone. However, I do not mind he could, this would be a perfect opportunity for Kakuzu to end this while Oro stands their aimlessly putting has hand on a very mobile Kakuzu. Please show me some proof of this. It has been shown many times, he is mobile whilst the usage of Domu. This scan demonstrates his insane speed and his ability to be mobile whilst using domu on his hand [
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] [
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]. Orochimaru is faster? Since when, I would love to see some of this speed you speak of. Naruto in v2? We have seen Kakashi ward off and fight on par with these beasts [
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][
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], do note there are many present while Oro was fighting only one with 4 tails (Kakashi was fighting a 5 tailed one), a much easier task. Furthermore, Kakashi's speed was nothing in front of Kakuzu, who blitzed Kakashi whilst going at maximum speed, since Raikir was said to be his max speed and not even viable without a sharingan. Yet, while Kakuzu was on the floor and Kakashi was running, Kakuzu still managed to out-speed him and kick him away [
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]. Orochimaru has no speed feat that matches up with this one, slithering snake mode or not, unless you have scans. And no, Orochimaru cannot seal someone's chakra like he did with Naruto. That seal is clearly not for everyone, as stated in the DB
]Five Elements* Seal (五行封印, Gogyou Fuuin)
Fuuinjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
User: Orochimaru
[picture of Orochimaru performing the Five Element Seal on Naruto]
[picture of the kanji for the Five Elements appearing on Orochimaru's fingertips]
→The moment the "Five Elements Seal" is used, Orochimaru concentrates wicked chakra to his five fingertips!
A demonic seal carved to disturb the Kyuubi's power~~
To disturb the effect of the "Four Images Seal" the Yondaime Hokage performed on Naruto, Orochimaru sealed Naruto once more. Because the "Five Element Seal," an odd-numbered seal, was put on top of the even-numbered "Four Images Seal"**, the Kyuubi's chakra was prevented from returning to Naruto. From then on, Naruto's own chakra and that of the Kyuubi's became jumbled and Naruto lost the ability to skilfully control it.
*Gogyou (五行) refers to the five elements from Chinese philosophy: Metal (金, Chinese: Jīn), Wood (木, Chinese: Mù), Water (水, Chinese: Shuǐ), Fire (火, Chinese: Huǒ), and Earth (土, Chinese: Tǔ). The elemental techniques in Naruto use different elements: Earth (土, Tsuchi), Water (水, Mizu), Fire (火, Hi), Wind (風, Kaze), and Lightning (雷, Kaminari). Those are based on the five elements from Japanese philosophy, the Godai (五大): Earth (地, Chi), Water (水, Sui), Fire (火, Ka), Wind (風, Fuu), and Void (空, Kuu).
**Four Images Seal (四象封印, Shishou Fuuin)
I don't understand your way of thinking. You can either tank something or not. If Enma was sure Kusanagi was useless against diamond-like substances, he wouldnt've been worried about himself - especially with knowledge on Kusanagi. Moreover, looks like partial Domu doesn't make him completely immobile (it probably lowers his mobility tho), but full-body Domu definitely makes him immobile (especially that you like to back up your statements with Databook entries). The thing is that even if Kusanagi couldn't pierce or wound Kakuzu completely, it would still do damage - and Domu is not something artificial. After the jutsu wears off, his normal body will still be hurt. Not to mention that with Oro's Longsword of the Sky jutsu - catching Kakuzu off guard will be much easier.
About chakra draining. He did it canonically and he took only his own chakra back, because that was what he wanted to do. You either can drain chakra or you cannot. Or do you want to say that Orochimaru spent his time on learning (just in case!) how to suck his own chakra back from someone who had sucked his own chakra from him first. It sounds stupid, right? But that's exactly what you said _._
Moving on to VFC. It was used in manga, sadly only offpanel. But we know how long it takes for Orochimaru to take off the face off himself - splits of a second. That's what suggests how it's used and it's backed up by your favourite Databook.
NINJUTSU; Shoushagan no jutsu (Photographic Portrayal Disfigurement technique)
User: Orochimaru
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: B
Main text
A ruthless jutsu where one applies their hand onto the subject's face, stealing its physionomy and making it their own. Since what is stolen is the face itself, the disguise achieved through facial features alteration* won't reveal the tiniest flaw. Orochimaru used this jutsu to infiltrate the Chuunin preliminary exams, impersonating a Grass ninja. The victims discovered later had been reduced to faceless corpses atrocious even to look at...
About speed. When Kakuzu manages to blitz someone from tens of meters in time the can't even swing their kunai by 2 milimeters, I'll agree that he is > Orochimaru in speed [
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And about 5ES. Again, you say that Orochimaru learnt it just in case he meets someone who happens to be a Jinchuuriki with a beast sealed exactly with a even-numbered seal AND with the seal being visible due to some other reasons? Ofc not. Even Orochimaru was surprised seeing it.
You are right about the part where 5ES makes Kyuubi and Naruto's chakra unable to mix. But it also disrupts chakra of the victim. With the 5ES, Naruto
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...
But after Jiraya undid the seal, look what happened [
He is not faster than Kakuzu until proven otherwise. Ino is a sensor, there is no reason for her not to have sensed it coming [
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][
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]. Re-read the chapter. The scroll was already out, simply opening it obviously does not mean he is able to react and move away. Ino shouted before it was launched, possibly sensing it since she is a sensor and demonstrated her sensory in that fight already. Kakashi also 'saw through it' with his Sharingan, and immense speed with Raikiri.
You like to go by Databook, so let me remind you that Orochimaru in there is 0.5 point faster than Kakuzu in base. Now add to it Oro's Slithering Snake Mode. And you said Kakashi saw through Gian? I don't understand your point. He managed to figure out the jutsu, jump in front of Shika and Choji (actually closing the distance between Gian and himself even more) and counter it with another jutsu. Orochimaru has only to dodge. Not that hard. But heck, even if he couldn't, he might just throw some snakes as meat shields to make Gian contact with them instead of Oro. Given the amazing speed of his Hidden Snakes and Oro's reaction time, it wouldn't be a problem.
I am talking about Orochimaru overextending, if he does indeed end up thinking he can absorb chakra and VFC Kakuzu like you think he will. 3 Sensory abilities? Lol? He can sense heat after communicating with snakes, it is not instant nor has he shown to use it (from what I recall). He's been put into genjutsu and he has never been capable of telling where the whereabouts of his opponents where, since his sensing is lack-luster. Please elaborate on this sensing you speak of..
Orochimaru has temperature sensing, smell sensing and chakra sensing. Also, I'm not quite sure if we're talking about current Zetsu Oro or only about Oro with hands. If the first one, then he gets another sensory ability and, frankly, quite a strong one. And since you are really stubborn, let me post some scans.
[
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[
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[
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[
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[
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*] - * because it's a feat with a Zetsu body
Another sensory feat is when he freed Kabuto from Sasori's chakra needle in the brain. Without sensing (and upper scans provided you with proof that he can sense) he wouldn't be able to even detect it, not to mention dispeling it.
Once again, you are assuming we are being shown every day experience when that isn't necessarily the case. This isn't a daily diary, it's a manga, panels do not have set time frames as don't chapters. The assumption you are making is based on blind faith and I have 0 reason to accept such a feat being handed to Oro. Wut. He simply could merge with his snake for unkown reasons, there's no indication that he can do this to normal people nor is their any indication it has anything to do with Oral rebirth. Stop trying to give your beloved Oro feats he doesn't have.
There was actually no time where he could train, but even if he did: again your thinking. 'Hmm, now that I absorbed Orochimaru who used his Body Replacement from his mouth, I'll spend quite some time to change it to coming out of my chest and make it more troublesome because I'll have to cut my chest open first as well and waste more chakra.'
This is stupid and makes no sense.
And about that strange 'merging'. He came out of a normal being - his summon, so you cannot say that it had anything to do with his own body modifications. I also don't know what it was, but the closest thing to compare it to is his Body Replacement. If it isn't it, then it's some OP body destruction shit or sth like that.
