Kakuzu vs Obito.

Brother Numpsay

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Actually, Obito displayed reflexes superior to KCM Naruto, so him being on par with MS Kakshi w/o intangibility isn't that surprising to me.

What? Kamui battle against Kakashi has shown they are physically equal. Its due to intangibility, which is nigh-instant, is what makes to catch him, regardless of speed.

Additionally, War Arc Kakashi is much stronger and more reflexive than Immortals Arc Kakashi, so that's something to factor in here.

No he isnt. The difference between Kakashi in arcs is stamina.
 

NarutoX28

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What? Kamui battle against Kakashi has shown they are physically equal. Its due to intangibility, which is nigh-instant, is what makes to catch him, regardless of speed.

I never said Obito was superior to MS Kakashi.


No he isnt. The difference between Kakashi in arcs is stamina.

Not necessarily. He reacted to foes who caused KCM Naruto trouble.
 

Brother Numpsay

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I never said Obito was superior to MS Kakashi

You had me confused when you said "Obito displayed reflexes superior to KCM Naruto" which would mean >>> Kakashi

Since KCM Naruto reflexes >> Kakashi

Not necessarily. He reacted to foes who caused KCM Naruto trouble.

Like who?
Kakashi failed to physically react to Susanoo arrow
Naruto succeed in physically react and moving away from V2 Ay (which this version is faster then Arrow_
 

NarutoX28

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You had me confused when you said "Obito displayed reflexes superior to KCM Naruto" which would mean >>> Kakashi

Since KCM Naruto reflexes >> Kakashi

I honestly don't believe so. Kakashi's more experienced in CQC and has Precognition whereas Naruto does not.

Like who?
Kakashi failed to physically react to Susanoo arrow
Naruto succeed in physically react and moving away from V2 Ay (which this version is faster then Arrow_

And failing to physically react to Susano'o Arrow is a Kage Summit feat, not a War Arc feat.
 

Brother Numpsay

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I honestly don't believe so. Kakashi's more experienced in CQC and has Precognition whereas Naruto does not.

experience is irrelevant to actually physical feats. Kakashi is inferior. Especially by feats

And failing to physically react to Susano'o Arrow is a Kage Summit feat, not a War Arc feat.

There is no significant gap in that time line. Unless you can show me that he can react to Arrow now
 

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Visual sight before he teleports....

Obviously not. How in the world does he locate his targets when he's nowhere in the vicinity? :lol




Well i'm assuming this is a quick process, and why would he be able to slam his hand on the ground if the jutsu is already being used? Also can't find the databook translation but i'm pretty sure this jutsu just burns things it touches and the exterior is all that's been shown to do that. But no matter he can tank any jutsu he has with domu anyways.
All of those things you said negate Human path happening btw.

No, they stop Human Path from getting him that single time. Obito can rinse and repeat as long as he needs to, but instead use the smoke and debris caused by Kakuzu's own attacks as cover for his warp.

I don't think he can beat rinnegan Obito like this but i'm just saying :lol

:lol Then stop.

? @underline, Not how it works since Kakashi never encounter Kakuzu in his long range form, so how is it my burden. For Obito to encounter Kakuzu he will have to face thick layers on Jingou surrounding Kakuzu, along with Mask Blast.

Irrelevant. Kakuzu not having the feats isn't an excuse for you not to back up your claims. Without warnings even people like KCM Naruto would have issues evading Obito's warp+attack, let alone a point blank warp+touch for Human Path. Jiongu isn't an issue as he can warp to a place where he can touch it and not have to worry about it's attack unless it's fast enough, which it isn't. As for the mask attacks, it all depends on which mask is attacking him. Trapping himself and Kakuzu in Uchiha Kaenjin prevents any mask that is outside from hitting Obito when he comes for the blindside attack.





[ ]


Ok.
They have similar reaction abilities to Kakuzu who can react to Kakashi. So waiting for arms reach is all thats needed, due to full intel.

Since when? And reacting to Kakashi charging=/=Reaching to a blindside attack from Obito. Stop comparing the two types of attacks when they are different. This logic is tantamount to me saying that since X character can react to Minato's Shunshin, he can react to Minato's Hiraishin.




I wasnt using strawman. I was using poor choice of words, and assumed you would get what I was saying. Mind = the head area. Obito usage of Human Path, Im going by what he states how his feats can perform[ ].So I can only assume that works the same has Nagato's puppet

Never said straw man, I said grasping at straws. Basically you are reaching. Zero evidence from you that he needs to touch someone's head to use Human Path. Obito states that he can use Human Path to learn everything, but it will kill him as his soul will be taken as a result. Where does that even hint that it needs him to touch their head? :lol.


Addressed by link, and also OBito is using 1 Rinnegan, which could also have an effect its power

Nope. The last sentence is also a baseless assumption. From what we can tell, the number of Rinnegan only affects the amount of jutsu you can use. Not how these jutsu work.
 

EZQ

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By saying Kakashi+++++ I meant that Kakuzu fight Kakashi.
Huge difference between war arc kakashi and immortal duo arc Kakashi.
And in this fight Obito can teleport himself to Kamui. We've seen how fast he is when he teleports himself for attacking purposes. He even got a KCM Naruto off guard.
All of Kakuzu's ninjutsu are countered by his absurdly huge Katon. Once Kakuzu's vision is blocked Obito teleports himself behind Kakuzu and soul rips him.

The difference betwee war arc Kakashi and immortal duo kakashi is not all those ++++ you suggested. Not to mention, Kakashi's improvement in the war is mostly stamina = spamming kamui, which he didn't use against Kakuzu anyways, so if you ask me, Kakuzu still beats War arc Kakashi if this last one doesn't resort to kamui like he did on canon (total asspull anyways).

And i never disagreed on Obito beating Kakuzu here, i just quoted you about the kakashi thing
 

Brother Numpsay

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Irrelevant. Kakuzu not having the feats isn't an excuse for you not to back up your claims. Without warnings even people like KCM Naruto would have issues evading Obito's warp+attack, let alone a point blank warp+touch for Human Path. Jiongu isn't an issue as he can warp to a place where he can touch it and not have to worry about it's attack unless it's fast enough, which it isn't. As for the mask attacks, it all depends on which mask is attacking him. Trapping himself and Kakuzu in Uchiha Kaenjin prevents any mask that is outside from hitting Obito when he comes for the blindside attack.

@Bold, I made no such claim, so what do I need to back up? I know for sure Kakuzu can react to Kakashi physically, so a back stab is irrelevant when he has eyes from the back this time. KCM Naruto scenario is not relevant, as Naruto isn't being surrounded by Jingou, which is waiting for physical encounter and a point blank one is even worst, as he going to be point blank touching Jingou first.

P.S. the whole premise is Kakuzu using long range mode[ ] with all of his hearts inside.

Since when? And reacting to Kakashi charging=/=Reaching to a blindside attack from Obito. Stop comparing the two types of attacks when they are different. This logic is tantamount to me saying that since X character can react to Minato's Shunshin, he can react to Minato's Hiraishin.

Did I forget to mention having 4 other "eye" from different cornors of his body, plus massive amount of Jingou coverage, as the scenario?


Never said straw man, I said grasping at straws. Basically you are reaching. Zero evidence from you that he needs to touch someone's head to use Human Path. Obito states that he can use Human Path to learn everything, but it will kill him as his soul will be taken as a result. Where does that even hint that it needs him to touch their head? :lol.

That will go back to Nagato's usage. Kabuto wasn't able to capture Naruto's intel the moment Nagato touch him. So the usage goes back to Puppet's use.



Nope. The last sentence is also a baseless assumption. From what we can tell, the number of Rinnegan only affects the amount of jutsu you can use. Not how these jutsu work.

I dont see how thats baseless. Double Rinne Madara had better performance of Limbo.. At the end were both speculating the "usage", at this point.

So do I need to change the conditions again? Lol
 

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The difference betwee war arc Kakashi and immortal duo kakashi is not all those ++++ you suggested. Not to mention, Kakashi's improvement in the war is mostly stamina = spamming kamui, which he didn't use against Kakuzu anyways, so if you ask me, Kakuzu still beats War arc Kakashi if this last one doesn't resort to kamui like he did on canon (total asspull anyways).
Everything about Kakashi was upgraded. He went from keeping up with Hidan to keeping up with multiple v6 jins, and pulling off techniques that even MS Obito couldn't see. So to me Kakashi got a huge upgrade.
And i never disagreed on Obito beating Kakuzu here, i just quoted you about the kakashi thing
Ok then
 

NarutoX28

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experience is irrelevant to actually physical feats. Kakashi is inferior. Especially by feats

Being more experienced in CQC implies greater Taijutsu ability. This is important as KCM Naruto is a close-mid range fighter, so Kakashi's superior in an aspect that KCM Naruto tends to get involved in.


There is no significant gap in that time line. Unless you can show me that he can react to Arrow now

That doesn't really matter considering many people attained power-ups when the plot asked for it.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Being more experienced in CQC implies greater Taijutsu ability. This is important as KCM Naruto is a close-mid range fighter, so Kakashi's superior in an aspect that KCM Naruto tends to get involved in.

Not by feats you can't prove it.

That doesn't really matter considering many people attained power-ups when the plot asked for it.

So you have no evidence/feats to prove your right? Not sure what to say.
 

NarutoX28

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Not by feats you can't prove it.

Being able to fight just as effectively as 6th Gate Gai against V2 Jin doesn't prove anything, esp. when KCM Naruto was struggling against Base Jin and also Obito who Base Gai, someone who's inferior to his 6th Gate self performed better than?

I certainly can prove it, but you can't.

So you have no evidence/feats to prove your right? Not sure what to say.

Of course I do. Your assumption that it being a short gap doesn't really prove anything when many characters received power-ups within a short period of time.

Hell, your statement of his stamina being the only thing improving is ridiculous, esp. when it's been such a short time gap. You can't honestly believe that his stamina improved to the point where he could use Kamui repeatedly after fighting against many high level ninja in the war in just a short period of time if you're actually following what you believe. It makes no sense using your logic.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Being able to fight just as effectively as 6th Gate Gai against V2 Jin doesn't prove anything, esp. when KCM Naruto was struggling against Base Jin and also Obito who Base Gai, someone who's inferior to his 6th Gate self performed better than?

I certainly can prove it, but you can't.

When the hell was Naruto struggling to physically react to jins Lol? All you doing so far is reaching to make a point. @Bold, you have no point as Naruto was along side them, facing his own V2[ ], so how is he inferior?


Of course I do. Your assumption that it being a short gap doesn't really prove anything when many characters received power-ups within a short period of time.

Hell, your statement of his stamina being the only thing improving is ridiculous, esp. when it's been such a short time gap. You can't honestly believe that his stamina improved to the point where he could use Kamui repeatedly after fighting against many high level ninja in the war in just a short period of time if you're actually following what you believe. It makes no sense using your logic.

Except your points are baseless.

Lol Im going by evidence, therefore stand by what Manga represent, and you think its ridiculous? Doesnt change that your wrong and have no point
 

NarutoX28

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When the hell was Naruto struggling to physically react to jins Lol? All you doing so far is reaching to make a point. @Bold, you have no point as Naruto was along side them, facing his own V2[ ], so how is he inferior?

Thanks for proving my point. KCM Naruto couldn't do anything offensively which is why we witness him fighting defensively. When we did witness him fighting offensively, he was merely overpowered by Base Jin.

Except your points are baseless.

Lol Im going by evidence, therefore stand by what Manga represent, and you think its ridiculous? Doesnt change that your wrong and have no point

Your points are baseless. Claiming that the time gap is short is irrelevant considering people such as Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, Karin, Suigetsu, etc. have all received better feats in a short period of time without any justification for it.

My point was also not baseless. I disproved the logic of a brief time gap indicating little improvement. There's absolutely no justification for why his stamina improved drastically, so the idea of his strength not improving whereas his stamina increased the most it ever has despite it being a rather short time gap seems rather like narrow-minded thinking.

You can choose ignore my evidence, but I actually presented feats as to why War Arc Kakashi improved drastically.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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This is becoming a drag.

Thanks for proving my point. KCM Naruto couldn't do anything offensively which is why we witness him fighting defensively. When we did witness him fighting offensively, he was merely overpowered by Base Jin.

That very scan proves your wrong. As YOU are trying to prove that Kakashi > KCM in reaction. Yet alone strike speed. In that very scan no one showed inferiority over the other.

Reaction has been debunked completely. Call me when Kakashi can react to V2 Ay. Let alone react to Arrow. These scenario your trying to prove via against Jins, isnt helping you at all. As 1) Its freaken Team battle, which can lead to hitting opponents LoS. 2) Nothing Kakashi shown that Naruto couldnt do himself.

And strike speed has been debunked completely. Call me when Kakashi was able to outshine KCM in this category.

Until then you have no point


Your points are baseless. Claiming that the time gap is short is irrelevant considering people such as Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, Karin, Suigetsu, etc. have all received better feats in a short period of time without any justification for it.

You can choose ignore my evidence, but I actually presented feats as to why War Arc Kakashi improved drastically.

When? All you did was presented how his stamina has improved. You have not once showed how he gotten faster then he did before.
You have not once show how he had better reaction then he had before.
 
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