Kakuzu vs Hiruzen

[Curse Mark]

@Doctor Proof
@Zexion

Do you believe Kakuzu's masks can use their elemental attacks while still on his back?

 

[Zexion~]

@Doctor Proof
@Zexion

Do you believe Kakuzu's masks can use their elemental attacks while still on his back?

Yes :lol he's used them when they were merged with his body, which is basically the same thing is it not?

 

[Zexion~]

Old Hiruzen is Edo Hiruzen, he's simply in the living. It's not wank. Kakuzu would lose.

Nope he gets more chakra and greater stamina, therefore alive Hiruzen can't get the feats smh.

 

[Curse Mark]

Yes :lol he's used them when they were merged with his body, which is basically the same thing is it not?

So he could essentially use the wind one as a booster to send himself flying to escape or speed towards someone
if he saw kakashi coming to raikiri him he could have sent him flying instead.

YA BOI just created kakuzu's coolest new tactic you're all welcome

 

[Paulson3lt]

Danzo seemed pretty agile despite his old age. I imagine Hiruzen would at least be on his level if not faster

 

[Zexion~]

So he could essentially use the wind one as a booster to send himself flying to escape or speed towards someone
if he saw kakashi coming to raikiri him he could have sent him flying instead.

YA BOI just created kakuzu's coolest new tactic you're all welcome

:lol but the wind technique didn't send the lighter mask flying, nor did it send Kakuzu moving when used in a condensed form....so why would it push back Kakuzu ?

 

[Kages]

Nope he gets more chakra and greater stamina, therefore alive Hiruzen can't get the feats smh.

No, he just regenerates his chakra. Has the same exact amount of chakra as Living Old Hiruzen.
It just heals itself..
Hiruzen can use every feat he used in the war.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nope he gets more chakra and greater stamina, therefore alive Hiruzen can't get the feats smh.

Wrong. He only has unlimited chakra and stamina. The amount of chakra he has is the same as it was when he was alive just like it is for all Edo Zombies. Manga pretty much confirmed this when the Edo Hokage couldn't use the normal amount of clones while holding up the barrier, and when Minato ran out of chakra for a bit despite being an Edo.

So yes. Alive Hiruzen gets all of Edo Hiruzen's feats. Only thing that would differ is how it affected his body.

 

[Zexion~]

No, he just regenerates his chakra.

Allowing him to spawn larger jutsu along with clones......You can't say that jutsu wouldn't have been helpful in his fight with Orochimaru?

With age stamina/chakra is weakened.


@KG *sigh* That pretty much means that he could possible use one jutsu, but 4 at a time simultaniously with clones was obviously thanks to his unlimited chakra .-.

 

[Kages]

Allowing him to spawn larger jutsu along with clones......You can't say that jutsu wouldn't have been helpful in his fight with Orochimaru?

With age stamina/chakra is weakened.


@KG *sigh* That pretty much means that he could possible use one jutsu, but 4 at a time simultaniously with clones was obviously thanks to his unlimited chakra .-.

No, the only reason he didn't use those is because of them being useless, due to the Edo's Regeneration. Why would he waste his chakra on accomplishing nothing?

@bold- No, he can use all five simultaneously. Old Hiruzen can use 5 shadow clones and five bijuu sized elements.

@KG- what happened to your debate against Apex?

 

[Zexion~]

No, the only reason he didn't use those is because of them being useless, due to the Edo's Regeneration. Why would he waste his chakra on accomplishing nothing?

@bold- No, he can use all five simultaneously. Old Hiruzen can use 5 shadow clones and five bijuu sized elements.

@KG- what happened to your debate against Apex?

No as the clones sever his chakra, but since he's an edo it regenerates allowing him to then use the jutsu all on the same large scale whereas clones usually weaken the jutsu thus used .-.

 

[Kages]

No as the clones sever his chakra, but since he's an edo it regenerates allowing him to then use the jutsu all on the same large scale whereas clones usually weaken the jutsu thus used .-.

The chakra is regenerated AFTER he uses the attack.

 

[KidGamer65]

Allowing him to spawn larger jutsu along with clones......You can't say that jutsu wouldn't have been helpful in his fight with Orochimaru?

With age stamina/chakra is weakened.


@KG *sigh* That pretty much means that he could possible use one jutsu, but 4 at a time simultaniously with clones was obviously thanks to his unlimited chakra .-.

Wrong again for reasons already stated. If Edo Hiruzen can use that, then Alive Hiruzen has enough chakra to do the same. The only thing that differs is the effect on his body. The possibility of that feat is not debatable.

@KG- what happened to your debate against Apex?

It's ongoing. It's his turn to respond.

No as the clones sever his chakra, but since he's an edo it regenerates allowing him to then use the jutsu all on the same large scale whereas clones usually weaken the jutsu thus used .-.

Bold is false for obvious reasons.

-Edo Hokage were limited in amount of clones that could be made.
-Clones were weaker than the originals by far (at least for Hashirama)

The underlined is fanfiction and Naruto's existence is enough to debunk it. Terrible point.

 

[Zexion~]

Wrong again for reasons already stated. If Edo Hiruzen can use that, then Alive Hiruzen has enough chakra to do the same. The only thing that differs is the effect on his body. The possibility of that feat is not debatable.



It's ongoing. It's his turn to respond.



Bold is false for obvious reasons.

-Edo Hokage were limited in amount of clones that could be made.
-Clones were weaker than the originals by far (at least for Hashirama)

The underlined is fanfiction and Naruto's existence is enough to debunk it. Terrible point.

Woodclones =/= Shadow clones, has less to do with the amount of chakra and more to do with the technique, but anyways the fact remains that if a jutsu is used by alive hiruzen, he may not have the chakra to do all 4, wheras if it were used by edo hiruzen the chakra is constantly filled smh.


Are you trying to say that clones don't usually siphon the chakra in half or a certain percentage is fan fiction?

 

[Curse Mark]

:lol but the wind technique didn't send the lighter mask flying, nor did it send Kakuzu moving when used in a condensed form....so why would it push back Kakuzu ?

He would have to hop a little first, once he's off the ground, niiiiiiiyyyooooom

 

[Zexion~]

He would have to hop a little first, once he's off the ground, niiiiiiiyyyooooom

Wind mask was also in the air lmfao

 

[KidGamer65]

Woodclones =/= Shadow clones, has less to do with the amount of chakra and more to do with the technique, but anyways the fact remains that if a jutsu is used by alive hiruzen, he may not have the chakra to do all 4, wheras if it were used by edo hiruzen the chakra is constantly filled smh.

:lol

1. Wood Clones are no different from Shadow Clones apart from the fact that they are wood, and that the user can pick how much chakra he allocates to each individual clone. So wrong. Not even sure where you got the first sentence from, but it's fanfic.

2. Tobirama made Shadow Clones, and could only make 2 due to most of his chakra being used to sustain the barriers. His clones were not at full power either.

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"Even if we cancel the remaining clones...."

Meaning that cancelling the clones would up their power, but wouldn't make a difference.

When clones are made their chakra obviously does not refill to match the original's full chakra pool.

Are you trying to say that clones don't usually siphon the chakra in half or a certain percentage is fan fiction?

No. Clones weakening your jutsu, specifically in this scenario, is pure fanfiction.

 

[Curse Mark]

Wind mask was also in the air lmfao

Confused by what you're talking about

 

[Zexion~]

:lol

1. Wood Clones are no different from Shadow Clones apart from the fact that they are wood, and that the user can pick how much chakra he allocates to each individual clone. So wrong. Not even sure where you got the first sentence from, but it's fanfic.

2. Tobirama made Shadow Clones, and could only make 2 due to most of his chakra being used to sustain the barriers. His clones were not at full power either.

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"Even if we cancel the remaining clones...."

Meaning that cancelling the clones would up their power, but wouldn't make a difference.

When clones are made their chakra obviously does not refill to match the original's full chakra pool.



No. Clones weakening your jutsu, specifically in this scenario, is pure fanfiction.

I thought there was something about woodclones being weaker.... Guess not in the DB though.

I guess your right then.

 

[Draegod]

I thought there was something about woodclones being weaker.... Guess not in the DB though.

I guess your right then.

Wood clones are stayed to be stronger then shadow clones.

Ot: alive hiruzen can literally do everything edo has shown with out question what so ever.