[VS] Kakuzu vs Hiashi Hyūga

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Kisame couldn't dodge Neji's=Masks can't dodge a superior one (since you can't perceive the air palm unless you're a sensor).
Didn't TheEvilOne said that Mei counters that by using a Suiton Ninjutsu, which somehow parries this invisible burst? Though Hiashi only needs to raise his hand and hit her body, she forms the necessary hand seals and shots a Suiton dragon which catches this invisible vacuum palm halfway down. Though maybe he changed his mind regarding this.
 

Apêx1

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Didn't TheEvilOne said that Mei counters that by using a Suiton Ninjutsu, which somehow parries this invisible burst? Though Hiashi only needs to raise his hand and hit her body, she forms the necessary hand seals and shots a Suiton dragon which catches this invisible vacuum palm halfway down. Though maybe he changed his mind regarding this.

TheEvilOne has spouted lots of bullshit, I stopped keeping track long ago. And anyways, by the time Hiashi has raised his hand, Mei might have started with her hand seals, given she couldn't even counter Madara's Katon in time, which is far slower than the air palm. Unless Mei fires first and gets countered by a regular air palm, a vacuum air palm would plough right through it.
 

super yang

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air palm is faster than any orthodox ninjutsu, but hiashi still loses.

kakauzu overwhelms him w/ spam & rotation gets steamrolled by fuu'ton atsugai
 

RicardoA

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How exactly can he win?

Well, how can Hiashi win? You put him against the guy who would have soloed Kakashi, Choji and Ino in a 'fair' fight. I don't think Hiashi alone would've done any better.
I don't think there's any hype, portrayal or feats that suggest he can defeat any Akatsuki member by himself (excluding Zetsu and maybe Konan). Ask Zexion.
 
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Apêx1

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Well, how can Hiashi win? You put him against the guy who would have soloed Kakashi, Choji and Ino in a 'fair' fight. I don't think Hiashi alone would've done any better.
I don't think there's any hype, portrayal or feats that suggest he can defeat any Akatsuki member by himself (excluding Zetsu and maybe Konan). Ask Zexion.

So? Are you suggesting Kakashi Choji and Ino could've done anything to Hiashi without Kakashi having obtained Kamui? Moreover, he was a good match-up for them, so the ABC logic ain't working here either.
By hype he's the leader of the most powerful clan of Konoha, putting him above Kakashi in that sense. By feats he single handedly repelled the Juubi's tail and can do anything any other Hyuga has done to a greater extent. And what? Hidan is an Akatsuki member who would get raped, he's a terrible match-up for Hiashi. So that's one example, not to mention you failed to tell me any way regarding Kakuzu's win.

Counter these:
-Hiashi's Juubi sized Air palm which repelled the Juubi's tail, prove to me Domu tanks it, or that any of the masks are outside the AOE.
-Conventional air palms wipe out masks until you can show me them tanking something that can send Kisame flying.
-Domu is useless against someone who targets the insides. And yes, he does have Tenketsu.
-All jutsu are either repelled with Air palms, or in the case of Katon+Futon. If such a combo was pulled off, it's safe to assume by then, at least one air palm has occurred, meaning the Raiton mask is missing. Hiashi doesn't suffer any bad effects. And Zexion will argue that Gentle Fist does nothing since Kakuzu's insides are tendrils, despite him needing Tenketsu to utilise jutsu, nullifying his point.
 

RicardoA

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Why u so into this though :mad:_@:

So? Are you suggesting Kakashi Choji and Ino could've done anything to Hiashi without Kakashi having obtained Kamui? Moreover, he was a good match-up for them, so the ABC logic ain't working here either.

No. I'm implying the trio is more of a force to be reckoned with than Hiashi by himself regardeless of the match up.

By hype he's the leader of the most powerful clan of Konoha, putting him above Kakashi in that sense. By feats he single handedly repelled the Juubi's tail and can do anything any other Hyuga has done to a greater extent. And what? Hidan is an Akatsuki member who would get raped, he's a terrible match-up for Hiashi. So that's one example, not to mention you failed to tell me any way regarding Kakuzu's win.

By hype Kakashi was the first choice for Hokage after Tsunade, during Hiashi's prime, and would later become one. That's more significant than any hype Hiashi has.
Overall (by feats, hype and portrayal) Hiashi should be like Neji and Hinata fused into one being, which is equivalent to a very strong shinobi, but nothing that puts him above Kakuzu imo.

Counter these:
-Hiashi's Juubi sized Air palm which repelled the Juubi's tail, prove to me Domu tanks it, or that any of the masks are outside the AOE.

A little correction. His Vacuum Wall Palm wasn't Juubi sized, that's a huge exaggeration. He 'simply' sent one of the Juubi's hands back on his own.
Domu certainly tanks this given that those air blasts destructive power isn't properly their greatest asset, while Domu's performance was quite impressive. Nothing suggests an air blast is enough to bypass that Doton whose weakness is Raiton only.

-Conventional air palms wipe out masks until you can show me them tanking something that can send Kisame flying.

How does one validate the other. If Kisame was sent flying why not the masks as well? Kisame wasn't morbidly obese you know.
I don't see what's so impressive about Vacuum Palms to suggest their destructive power is so high.

-Domu is useless against someone who targets the insides. And yes, he does have Tenketsu.

Never said otherwise.

-All jutsu are either repelled with Air palms, or in the case of Katon+Futon. If such a combo was pulled off, it's safe to assume by then, at least one air palm has occurred, meaning the Raiton mask is missing. Hiashi doesn't suffer any bad effects. And Zexion will argue that Gentle Fist does nothing since Kakuzu's insides are tendrils, despite him needing Tenketsu to utilise jutsu, nullifying his point.

If it was that easy Kakashi wouldn't have had any trouble countering them with his own elemental attacks.
I severely doubt Vacuum Palms would be all it would take to defeat a guy who can attack from four different places, from a distance and needs to be killed five times.
 
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Apêx1

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No. I'm implying the trio is more of a force to be reckoned with than Hiashi by himself regardeless of the match up.

That's your opinion, holds no merit in the discussion.

By hype Kakashi was the first choice for Hokage after Tsunade, during Hiashi's prime, and would later become one. That's more significant than any hype Hiashi has.
Overall (by feats, hype and portrayal) Hiashi should be like Neji and Hinata fused into one being, which is equivalent to a very strong shinobi, but nothing that puts him above Kakuzu imo.

That's because clan leaders are controversial figures since disputes will emerge. And either way, pretty sure that was MS Kakashi. Kakashi that fought Kakuzu was 3T, so your point is moot.

A little correction. His Vacuum Wall Palm wasn't Juubi sized, that's a huge exaggeration. He 'simply' sent one of the Juubi's hands back on his own.
Domu certainly tanks this given that those air blasts destructive power isn't properly their greatest asset, while Domu's performance was quite impressive. Nothing suggests an air blast is enough to bypass that Doton whose weakness is Raiton only.

Yes, the Juubi tail's size. It was figurative, don't see what it you are getting at, fact is Kakuzu is getting hit. Once again you speak blatantly, where is Domu's feats? Blocking Choji's roll, a metal rod and some paper bombs? How exactly does that compare to sending the Juubi tail backwards? You fail to provide proof, again. And Lol@bold, the burden of proof is on you, since the Juubi tails were sent backwards, which have far greater strength than anything Domu has been up against.


How does one validate the other. If Kisame was sent flying why not the masks as well? Kisame wasn't morbidly obese you know.
I don't see what's so impressive about Vacuum Palms to suggest their destructive power is so high.

Dude what are you talking about? Kisame isn't morbidly obese, I never suggested he was. My point is that he casually stopped Gai's kicks [ ] without being moved an inch while focused on the fight. Meanwhile Kisame goes flying from air palms from a far inferior Hyūga. How exactly can one suggest the masks have enough durability to sustain the damage a far larger air palm would inflict? Makes no sense. Vacuum Palm blocked the Juubi tail, that's more than enough to suggest it's destructive power is insane. Meanwhile, the Juubi's finger is flicking dense jutsu like Hachibi's TBB. Please don't come with this ignorance if you reply..

Never said otherwise.



If it was that easy Kakashi wouldn't have had any trouble countering them with his own elemental attacks.
I severely doubt Vacuum Palms would be all it would take to defeat a guy who can attack from four different places, from a distance and needs to be killed five times.

Since when was the air palm an elemental jutsu? It's pure chakra flying with high pressure. Kakashi's elemental attacks were all overpowered bar his dual Raikiri which stalemated Gian. Don't see how you can draw out a comparison between something which needs an elemental advantage to overcome something else and an air palm which is pushing aside any jutsu regardless of element due to its pressure. And Lol, he can attack from all 5 places while having 5 lives? You do know each of the masks is a heart, it needs to be in his body for him to keep living again and again. If they were all inside him, then Kakuzu has no chance of winning at all, since they all get crushed simultaneously. If they aren't all inside of Kakuzu, but rather surrounding Hiashi, then Hiashi uses an air palm per hand, crushing two masks. Gian would still be left (or any other) which gets blocked by Rotation. Kakuzu has no chance of winning.
 

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Neji can win this. So one can guess my opinion about matter.
 

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hiashi mid diff if he can immobilize kakazu completely
 

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Hiashi wins this very easily.

Divine Revolution and Air Palm can be used to defend against Kakuzu's elemental attacks, and they can also be used to take out his hearts.

Domu is ineffective against Gentle Fist.

If Kakuzu attempts to use his threads to strangle or hod down Hiashi, he can simply release chakra through the threads and harm Kakuzu that way, in a manner similar to how Neji did to Kidomaru.

He takes this fairly easily .
 

RicardoA

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That's your opinion, holds no merit in the discussion.

I know.

That's because clan leaders are controversial figures since disputes will emerge. And either way, pretty sure that was MS Kakashi. Kakashi that fought Kakuzu was 3T, so your point is moot.

I don't remember ever seeing this implied anywhere in the manga.
The Kakashi who became Hokage only had access to 3T as well. That's not a major difference when he couldn't use it to its full potencial until the war and therefore was limited to a more defensive use of the jutsu.

Yes, the Juubi tail's size. It was figurative, don't see what it you are getting at, fact is Kakuzu is getting hit. Once again you speak blatantly, where is Domu's feats? Blocking Choji's roll, a metal rod and some paper bombs? How exactly does that compare to sending the Juubi tail backwards? You fail to provide proof, again. And Lol@bold, the burden of proof is on you, since the Juubi tails were sent backwards, which have far greater strength than anything Domu has been up against.

How is the burden on proof on me? An air blast doesn't rip through solid defences, its not like FRS or Raikiri. It only pushes the target with great strenght. Kakazu's Domu is not getting broken simply by colliding against the ground or a bunch of trees. That would be ridiculous.

Dude what are you talking about? Kisame isn't morbidly obese, I never suggested he was. My point is that he casually stopped Gai's kicks [ ] without being moved an inch while focused on the fight. Meanwhile Kisame goes flying from air palms from a far inferior Hyūga. How exactly can one suggest the masks have enough durability to sustain the damage a far larger air palm would inflict? Makes no sense. Vacuum Palm blocked the Juubi tail, that's more than enough to suggest it's destructive power is insane. Meanwhile, the Juubi's finger is flicking dense jutsu like Hachibi's TBB. Please don't come with this ignorance if you reply..

I know. But he's bulky. You could've been mistaken.
He casually blocked Gai's kick because of his great taijutsu and strenght. Now, he can't block an air bullet the same way can he?
How does pushing something back necessarily translates into parallel destructive power? Its not like the hand took any damage just because Hiashi managed to lift it a bit. There's the difference.

Since when was the air palm an elemental jutsu? It's pure chakra flying with high pressure. Kakashi's elemental attacks were all overpowered bar his dual Raikiri which stalemated Gian. Don't see how you can draw out a comparison between something which needs an elemental advantage to overcome something else and an air palm which is pushing aside any jutsu regardless of element due to its pressure. And Lol, he can attack from all 5 places while having 5 lives? You do know each of the masks is a heart, it needs to be in his body for him to keep living again and again. If they were all inside him, then Kakuzu has no chance of winning at all, since they all get crushed simultaneously. If they aren't all inside of Kakuzu, but rather surrounding Hiashi, then Hiashi uses an air palm per hand, crushing two masks. Gian would still be left (or any other) which gets blocked by Rotation. Kakuzu has no chance of winning.

I never claimed it was a elemental jutsu. I did however compared its strenght to Kakashi's own elemental jutsus.
You just assume Vacuum Palm is a super strong taijutsu, but completely ignore Kakuzu's arsenal. If anyone is getting pressured here that's Hiashi.
I claimed he can attack from 4 different places and needs to be killed 5 times. Where's the mistake?
How is a single Vacuum Palm enough for every mask when its not even a long ranged attack? Hiashi would only close the distance and have time to rest if Kakuzu let him.
 
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Forbidden Technique

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Hiashi without a doubt takes this. Pitting him against Kisame (No WD) or Deidara would be more interesting.
 
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