Kakuzu & Hidan VS 4 Tailed Naruto

Brother Numpsay

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Its invalid because the blood is on the inside of the shroud that he can not pierce in the first place, not like everything the shroud touches is left with the jins blood dripping on it.
Then I suggest re reading or visually see it in more context:

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The blood is rising above his skin floating up to the top of the aura, and once reach the outer area, it evaporates. As the blood stains gives the chakra a crimson color.

So any sort of impact can shed that chakra mixed with blood

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TRE MERCER

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Everyone argument is that they lose because they can't hurt him so your back tracking the reason behind it.

You also act like 4T is even intellectual do constantly stop Hidan form forming the ritual, when the only thing that keep Hidan from moving is chakra arms. The killing machine is going to use more then 1 move to kill his opponent so once he switches it up, opens for Hidan to make the seal. 4T doesnt have any other jutsu, bar chakra arms, that has the execution to stop Hidan forming the seal.

Then you have Kakuzu who can constantly push him back.
Shockwaves,Bijuudama's and hands coming from underground is more than enough. What is Kakuzu going to do? A bijuudama erases him.
 

Zexion~

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Then I suggest re reading or visually see it in more context:

You must be registered for see images

The blood is rising above his skin floating up to the top of the aura, and once reach the outer area, it evaporates. As the blood stains gives the chakra a crimson color.

So any sort of impact can shed that chakra mixed with blood

You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images
Thats a good scan actually I suppose you're correct, however no blood got on Oro so why would it get on Hidan? Once it leaves the shroud it evaporates as you said.
 

Apêx1

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Welcome back

Orochimaru wasnt getting manhandle, though he was struggling with 4T DC and defense. Why would he love to continue the fight, if he really was getting manhandle?

That was 4T power up that made that made that crater, not the shockwave, though really dont matter (as neither hurt Orochimaru) . But even then why can't it be compare to Matabi's Katon that took out the entire building it was in (huge location where it can whole a FULL Buijuu and alot of free roam too)?
thx fam

Because he knows he won't die and he's interested in Naruto. He still got manhandled regardless. He was getting bisected and smacked 100's of meters across the forest.

Because Matabi's Katon destroying a building (buildings are very fragile in NV terms) doesn't say too much. Yes it's a large Katon and it's surely powerful on a large scale, but that doesn't necessarily mean it can damage Domu. Hidan logically survives any Katon that doesn't vaporise him. No reason for me to believe Matabi was fast enough to directly hit either of them so I'm gonna go with Matabi being significantly slower than KN4 Naruto. Then there's it being prone to being harmed by either of them, whilst KN4 Naruto isn't.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Thats a good scan actually I suppose you're correct, however no blood got on Oro so why would it get on Hidan?
. While it serves no purpose for Kishimoto to draw Yamato and Orochimaru to have blood on themselves in a Teen-Manga. Kishi shows blood only for context, same logic applying to the durability in manga-character's clothing.

Once it leaves the shroud it evaporates as you said.
Based on science and base on the context of Jiraya comment: Blood does not actually evaporate. Only the water in it does. The iron in the hemoglobin, salts & other minerals remain. Only water inside the blood is what you see getting vaporize from the shroud. Otherwise Jiraya wouldn't of mentioned chakra being mixed with the blood despite it being "vaporized".

So blood can still be accessed by shedding off chakra.





Because he knows he won't die and he's interested in Naruto. He still got manhandled regardless. He was getting bisected and smacked 100's of meters across the forest.
Orochimaru said he would die if he got hit by a Buijuudama and still wanted to fight. Right he was getting manhandled by lower levels of Naruto chakra forms too, yet tells Naruto he could of killed him in their encounter if he wanted to.


Because Matabi's Katon destroying a building (buildings are very fragile in NV terms) doesn't say too much. Yes it's a large Katon and it's surely powerful on a large scale, but that doesn't necessarily mean it can damage Domu. Hidan logically survives any Katon that doesn't vaporise him.
I agree with this. Im simply arguing that the destructive power of KN4 shockwave and power up was no better then Matabi's Katon blast.

No reason for me to believe Matabi was fast enough to directly hit either of them so I'm gonna go with Matabi being significantly slower than KN4 Naruto. Then there's it being prone to being harmed by either of them, whilst KN4 Naruto isn't.

I dont even know how to even compare them with KN4 hasnt moved his feet at all during his only encounter in the manga. While we have seen how Matabi/Yuugito can move in the war arc vs KM Naruto.

And we have implication that no other Buijuu's who have been hyped of their reflexes for its size [ ]
 

Apêx1

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Orochimaru said he would die if he got hit by a Buijuudama and still wanted to fight. Right he was getting manhandled by lower levels of Naruto chakra forms too, yet tells Naruto he could of killed him in their encounter if he wanted to.
It's obvious you're ignoring Orochimaru's personality. I'd completely agree with you if the claim was made by anyone else. Orochimaru is a different story so these statements being repeatedly referred to by you add no value to your point.


I agree with this. Im simply arguing that the destructive power of KN4 shockwave and power up was no better then Matabi's Katon blast.
The power-up was far beyond the Katon. But lets say the AOE of the shockwave and the Katon are the same/comparable. It doesn't take away from my point since this [ ] is KN3's AOE and KN4 is a massive power-up from KN3.


I dont even know how to even compare them with KN4 hasnt moved his feet at all during his only encounter in the manga. While we have seen how Matabi/Yuugito can move in the war arc vs KM Naruto.

And we have implication that no other Buijuu's who have been hyped of their reflexes for its size [ ]
No reason for me to believe Matabi is as fast as Yugito, and Yugito only fought in Bijuu form. Matabi is swift for its size, as is clearly stated. That doesn't make it swift compared to a V2 Kyuubi Jinchuriki. It being the only 'swift' one on a DB page which consists of the first 3 Bijuu means little (in the sense of it being some sort of implication) unless you're willing to argue that it's as fast as the Kyuubi. Hidan/Kakuzu's arsenals are far more suited for Bijuu than they are v2 Jinchuriki as far as I'm concerned.
 

Brother Numpsay

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It's obvious you're ignoring Orochimaru's personality. I'd completely agree with you if the claim was made by anyone else. Orochimaru is a different story so these statements being repeatedly referred to by you add no value to your point.
I'm not ignoring anything. I really dont know anything about Oro's personality that would effect his statement that would make me believe he was exaggerating or surely implying to be true. So your going to have to share with me.

The power-up was far beyond the Katon. But lets say the AOE of the shockwave and the Katon are the same/comparable. It doesn't take away from my point since this [ ] is KN3's AOE and KN4 is a massive power-up from KN3.
What was main point if 2-Tails and KN4 actually do have comparable AoE? I'm not seeing what you are talking about bringing out KN3 reference.

No reason for me to believe Matabi is as fast as Yugito, and Yugito only fought in Bijuu form. Matabi is swift for its size, as is clearly stated. That doesn't make it swift compared to a V2 Kyuubi Jinchuriki. It being the only 'swift' one on a DB page which consists of the first 3 Bijuu means little (in the sense of it being some sort of implication) unless you're willing to argue that it's as fast as the Kyuubi. Hidan/Kakuzu's arsenals are far more suited for Bijuu than they are v2 Jinchuriki as far as I'm concerned.
Never said it isnt. I even mentioned it was implied for its size too. I brought up Yuigto because she clearly was using/sharing her beast characteristics.

So in a sense I am referencing both Yugito fight with Bee andreferencing Full BM Matabi fight against Kurama Mode Naruto.

@Bold I could argue, hypothetically, Kakuzu with Suiton can deal with V2 cloak (cant hurt, it drown it). And Hidan I have already mentioned in this thread, so if your interested you can start on the end of page 4 to now for reference.
 
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..........
Those scans you posted makes sense but there are some holes in your entire premise.

  • How would Hidan even know that their cloaks have blood in them in the first place? It looks like raw chakra Hidan does not have some special ability in which allows him to know when blood is on his scythe.
  • That splatter you showed in your scans evaporates the moment it leaves the cloak and the manga suggust this simply because their isn't splatter left around when the cloak is hit.
So you have no argument until you can prove the following. Hidan will be aware of the blood and chakra fusing that the cloaks do. You need evidence suggesting that the 4 tails splatter sticks around instead of evaporate.



Would Raiton be capable of paralyzing KN4 Naruto especially when integrated into Suiton?
Wouldn't a simple shockwave suffice in destroying that combination?
 

Apêx1

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I'm not ignoring anything. I really dont know anything about Oro's personality that would effect his statement that would make me believe he was exaggerating or surely implying to be true. So your going to have to share with me.
Not bothering because this is retarded. And forgot to reply to the part you mentioned him having 2 chances of killing Naruto. You mean this chance and the one during the Chunin exams against Sasuke/Naruto/Sakura? Clearly he did not have the chance to kill Naruto in KN4 and this goes to prove it (or he'd have said three times).

What was main point if 2-Tails and KN4 actually do have comparable AoE? I'm not seeing what you are talking about bringing out KN3 reference.
Because AOE doesn't mean shit? Naruto's direct hit causes a massive explosion with comparable AOE to the Katon, but the direct contact of his hit is far beyond the power of the resulting explosion. I'm saying KN4 Naruto's speed coupled with his power defeats the duo.

Never said it isnt. I even mentioned it was implied for its size too. I brought up Yuigto because she clearly was using/sharing her beast characteristics.

So in a sense I am referencing both Yugito fight with Bee andreferencing Full BM Matabi fight against Kurama Mode Naruto.
Therefor was an irrelevant point to bring up as it adds no value to your points. Unless it would correlate to Matabi being as fast as Yugito, which it doesn't, that point means nothing.

Yugito fight with Bee has no place in this discussion since Yugito's feats aren't Matabi's just like Bee's feats aren't the Hachibi's. Full BM Matabi vs Kurama's only feats are getting roared away and getting smacked away with Saiken. 0 speed feats, hence why you didn't link anything. Any feat you want to mention in your counter needs to be supported by actual manga, or concede.

@Bold I could argue, hypothetically, Kakuzu with Suiton can deal with V2 cloak (cant hurt, it drown it). And Hidan I have already mentioned in this thread, so if your interested you can start on the end of page 4 to now for reference.
Except the location is a completely open field so unless you can prove Kakuzu uses Water Dome or something along those lines, KN4 Naruto is definitely not drowning (let alone slow enough to get caught by a massive scaled drowning Suiton).
 

Brother Numpsay

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Would Raiton be capable of paralyzing KN4 Naruto especially when integrated into Suiton?
When integrated with Suiton, I dont see why not. Cloaks have feats of blocking conductivity of heat via Katon but no feats of nullifying conductivity of lightening via electricity.


[*]How would Hidan even know that their cloaks have blood in them in the first place? It looks like raw chakra Hidan does not have some special ability in which allows him to know when blood is on his scythe.
This is something that can't be proven nor disprove. Hidan, being the newest member, doesnt have as much intel of Akatsuki plans and goals. So wouldn't be surprising that it doesnt know full details of jinjirukis and their abilities/characteristics. But at the same time Akatsuki assign him for a reason, as his ability benefits the team to actuallycapture them. So that much intel they can provide. Then you have Kakuzu, his partner, that could give him all the intel needed, since he does have full intel on that.

That splatter you showed in your scans evaporates the moment it leaves the cloak and the manga suggust this simply because their isn't splatter left around when the cloak is hit.
This was addressed already:

. While it serves no purpose for Kishimoto to draw Yamato and Orochimaru to have blood on themselves in a Teen-Manga. Kishi shows blood only for context, same logic applying to the durability in manga-character's clothing.



Based on science and base on the context of Jiraya comment: Blood does not actually evaporate. Only the water in it does. The iron in the hemoglobin, salts & other minerals remain. Only water inside the blood is what you see getting vaporize from the shroud. Otherwise Jiraya wouldn't of mentioned chakra being mixed with the blood despite it being "vaporized".

So blood can still be accessed by shedding off chakra.


Not bothering because this is retarded. And forgot to reply to the part you mentioned him having 2 chances of killing Naruto. You mean this chance and the one during the Chunin exams against Sasuke/Naruto/Sakura? Clearly he did not have the chance to kill Naruto in KN4 and this goes to prove it (or he'd have said three times).
Your picking and choosing Orochimaru's words. Orochimaru encounter Naruto 4 times in his life.

-Chunin exam
-Sanin battle
-Bridge (part 2)
-Hideout (part 2)

And his emphasis, clearly implying their last 2 recent encounters

Because AOE doesn't mean shit? Naruto's direct hit causes a massive explosion with comparable AOE to the Katon, but the direct contact of his hit is far beyond the power of the resulting explosion. I'm saying KN4 Naruto's speed coupled with his power defeats the duo.
Stop right there. KN3 explosion is no where near comparable. The explosion isnt even Buijuu scale for KN3. Yet alone powerful enough to ruin an entire location like what the 2 tails did.

What speed has KN4 provided that enables him blitz the duo?


Therefor was an irrelevant point to bring up as it adds no value to your points. Unless it would correlate to Matabi being as fast as Yugito, which it doesn't, that point means nothing.
Ok. Humanioid form Buijuu's dont have the same speed of their full BM form, I get it. But at the same time there is no way you can compare short burst of linear speed to a Full Buijuu's movement speed, to a specific destination they have to reach. One can make it to their destination further, due to its size, then one can make it with it speed alone.

None of these speeds (both V2 or Matabi) has shown something the Zombies can't react to.

]Full BM Matabi vs Kurama's only feats are getting roared away and getting smacked away with Saiken. 0 speed feats, hence why you didn't link anything. Any feat you want to mention in your counter needs to be supported by actual manga, or concede.
Dont need to linked them when you know about them. As I said, it was implied to move faster then the 3 Buijuu's that were introduced, despite them moving the same speed to gang on Kurama Mode, for the sake of the story. You see that many times characters moving the same speed as someone with better Shinsuin speed. Doesnt mean they are as fast as them. Same for getting smacked away with Saiken, only means Kurama can react to its speed, not because its slow. I'm not mentioning anything of Matabi having some type of profound speed here, just arguing that it isnt slow at all, and was implied to have fast movement for its size.

Except the location is a completely open field so unless you can prove Kakuzu uses Water Dome or something along those lines, KN4 Naruto is definitely not drowning (let alone slow enough to get caught by a massive scaled drowning Suiton).
I'm sure Kakuzu would be a water blast, as is all his other elements. But yeah, I was thinking more of a line of Suiton being integrated with Raiton. Which will null movement and drown from the remaining water after the hit. Wither how KN4 gets caught it based on the debate. Which is for another discussion
 
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Apêx1

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Your picking and choosing Orochimaru's words. Orochimaru encounter Naruto 4 times in his life.

-Chunin exam
-Sanin battle
-Bridge (part 2)
-Hideout (part 2)

And his emphasis, clearly implying their last 2 recent encounters
Uh what? Orochimaru against the Sanin isn't an example because Orochimaru clearly wanted to kill Naruto AS HE SAID . He failed, he didn't let Naruto survive. Fact. That leaves 3 encounters. We know he could kill Naruto at the hideout and in the Chunnin exams, so logically by saying he could kill Naruto twice, he's denouncing 2 of the 4 encounters they had. And I don't know were you pulled this implication out of your ass about the last 2 recent encounters? [ ] Not even a glimpse of such an implication. Time to concede this point buddy.

Stop right there. KN3 explosion is no where near comparable. The explosion isnt even Buijuu scale for KN3. Yet alone powerful enough to ruin an entire location like what the 2 tails did.

What speed has KN4 provided that enables him blitz the duo?
What? They are definitely comparable, Matabi's explosion was the size of the building [ ] and it didn't blow off any of Hidan's limbs - Naruto's blew off Oro's arm and that wasn't even KN4.

Who the hell is talking about blitzing buddy? I sure as hell haven't mentioned anyone blitzing, I said Naruto's speed+power combo will overwhelm the Duo, and that's a fact.


Ok. Humanioid form Buijuu's dont have the same speed of their full BM form, I get it. But at the same time there is no way you can compare short burst of linear speed to a Full Buijuu's movement speed, to a specific destination they have to reach. One can make it to their destination further, due to its size, then one can make it with it speed alone.

None of these speeds (both V2 or Matabi) has shown something the Zombies can't react to.
Completely irrelevant because this isn't a 5km race. It's a CQC fight. Not to mention, for Matabi to turn its body to someone behind it would take significantly longer than KN4 Naruto to react to someone behind him. Especially since Matabi's vision would be blocked by his own massive body in a lot of situations.

Dont need to linked them when you know about them. As I said, it was implied to move faster then the 3 Buijuu's that were introduced, despite them moving the same speed to gang on Kurama Mode, for the sake of the story. You see that many times characters moving the same speed as someone with better Shinsuin speed. Doesnt mean they are as fast as them. Same for getting smacked away with Saiken, only means Kurama can react to its speed, not because its slow. I'm not mentioning anything of Matabi having some type of profound speed here, just arguing that it isnt slow at all, and was implied to have fast movement for its size.
Yes, I never denied it's fast for its size and I never said Kurama reacting to it by smacking it with Saiken means Matabi is slow. What I am saying is he's not close to as fast/agile as KN4 Naruto in a CQC situation. If you want to refute this you'll need to give me some evidence. Saying it's as fast as the first 7 Bijuu means nothing when none of them have speed feats. You're just grasping on straws with the Matabi argument.

I'm sure Kakuzu would be a water blast, as is all his other elements. But yeah, I was thinking more of a line of Suiton being integrated with Raiton. Which will null movement and drown from the remaining water after the hit. Wither how KN4 gets caught it based on the debate. Which is for another discussion
Yes, and as I ALREADY said, it's an open location. The water will flatten out within moments unless you think he's in control of the water like Kisame is (proof?). No reason for Naruto to be affected by Raiton when his shroud covers his nerves. There's a reason Raikiri making contact with V2 Jins in the war arc had no electrifying effects, because the nerves aren't vulnerable while they're beneath the shroud. And anyways, I have absolutely no reason to believe the Suiton is fast enough to hit KN4 Naruto, and I have no reason to believe a swing of his arm won't completely blow it away like it blew those 10,000 snakes away.
 

Brother Numpsay

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And I don't know were you pulled this implication out of your ass about the last 2 recent encounters? [ ] Not even a glimpse of such an implication. Time to concede this point buddy.
Not out of my ass. Something explained 3 times, the reason Orochimaru wanted them to live via Part 2 series.
[ ][ ][ ]


What? They are definitely comparable, Matabi's explosion was the size of the building [ ] and it didn't blow off any of Hidan's limbs - Naruto's blew off Oro's arm and that wasn't even KN4.
Once I again I suggest you read my first response to you, because you just compared a building where it can hold a FULL Buijuu. [ ]. While your picture of KN3 small explosion took out little amount of trees, which Orochimaru can just jump back and land on one for a platform(plus Orochimaru actually got caught in the direct blast). , which Matabi's is relatively the same size.

Who the hell is talking about blitzing buddy? I sure as hell haven't mentioned anyone blitzing, I said Naruto's speed+power combo will overwhelm the Duo, and that's a fact.
@Bold: What makes you pass around facts like that? , you cant.

Completely irrelevant because this isn't a 5km race. It's a CQC fight. Not to mention, for Matabi to turn its body to someone behind it would take significantly longer than KN4 Naruto to react to someone behind him. Especially since Matabi's vision would be blocked by his own massive body in a lot of situations.
Ok

Yes, I never denied it's fast for its size and I never said Kurama reacting to it by smacking it with Saiken means Matabi is slow. What I am saying is he's not close to as fast/agile as KN4 Naruto in a CQC situation. If you want to refute this you'll need to give me some evidence. Saying it's as fast as the first 7 Bijuu means nothing when none of them have speed feats. You're just grasping on straws with the Matabi argument.
KN4 feats is no better then Matabi's when it comes to movement so idk why you keep bringing it up.

Yes, and as I ALREADY said, it's an open location. The water will flatten out within moments unless you think he's in control of the water like Kisame is (proof?). No reason for Naruto to be affected by Raiton when his shroud covers his nerves. There's a reason Raikiri making contact with V2 Jins in the war arc had no electrifying effects, because the nerves aren't vulnerable while they're beneath the shroud.
If Kakuzu Suiton is truly the same scale as his other elements (Katon or Futon), the size capable of engulfing a Boss Size/Buijuu size being. Then I'm sure that, once flatten, it can cover at least 6 feet of water.

Raikiri making contact to V2 isnt proof that the armor nullifies conductivity. As Raikiri focus was used to penetrate, not electrocute. . So no reason to believe the electricity stops its flow from the shroud.

And anyways, I have absolutely no reason to believe the Suiton is fast enough to hit KN4 Naruto, and I have no reason to believe a swing of his arm won't completely blow it away like it blew those 10,000 snakes away.
If someone argues that Kakuzu sprays and prays via no form of plan then I agree.
 
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