SacredSaberTooth
Member
This thread is obviously about how well Kakashi and naruto performed individually against Pain. For the sake of keeping it short and simple I will give the conclusion first and then if you feel like it you can read the rest.
So to summarize I'd like you to consider the following points.
1. Kakashi doesn't have the same chakra issues he once had.
Raikiri count 4
Wolf thing
lightning clone
Kumai 2
And that nail he removed.
This is a long way from Part one Kakashi who could only perform 4 raikiries a day
2. Kakashi got trolled by Kishi... It was bullshit that he lost to Deva realm. However even if it was a loss valuable information was gained. Information which ended up being the reason why Naruto ultimately won.
And even with Kishi's trolling it was still a good fight. Kakashi showed off how clever he was by outsmarting Nagato almost every step of the fight.
3. Naruto was fighting a man with a collapsed lung or something along those lines.
The entire reason why Pain lost was that Nagato could not maintain the Jutsu. After all he had fought Konoha + Kakashi + kyuubi before he had his final match with Naruto.
In my opinion Kakashi outperformed Naruto. And considering that he can now pick off nails flying at his face with Kumai I think that he is stronger then Naruto.
Kakashi vs Pain
So the setup is that it's Kakashi vs Deva realm. Both are fresh. Kakashi has no knowledge of Pain's abilities.
And we begin with Kakashi starting to learn about Deva realm's ability. Which is smart. A shinobi shouldn't just dive in not knowing what his enemy is capable of. One could say that discovering your enemies abilities is half the battle.
Now let's be fair. Whatever was going on off screen Kakashi clearly was taking one both bodies and by the looks of it he was winning as well.
Kakashi had been using a replacement the entire time and also had a good sniping position to pick off both bodies using Kumai there. Or at the very least being able to pick off the deva realm. However Kakashi got reinforcements.
Now at this point people might bitch that it wasn't actually Kakashi doing the fighting all alone. (Yes but Naruto also got to go 1 on 1 with Deva realm Kakashi was fighting two bodies at the same time)
Now Kakashi doesn't know the exact interval but he knows it's there. So he sets up a trap for Deva realm.
At this point I'd like to point out that Deva realm should have been killed and that there is no reason that this didn't happen.
If they can get chains why the **** can't they get the ones that rip people to shreds, that would have been perfect here. But plot does not permit that Deva realm dies yet. (Although it would have been a much more becoming death the the one he got.)
But whatever it was a trap after all and let's play it through.
note that there is no indication that robo realm is anywhere near deva realm.
But somehow he manages to get in the way. Kishi is trolling my fandom here...
And then Kakashi decides to start removing building suplies instead of Deva realm with his MS... Whatever Naruto's turn at bat.
For the sake or arguement I will ignore the first 5 Pain bodies Naruto killed. The reason is that Nagato at the time did not have enough chakra to maintain all of the bodies. That and Kakashi's fight was against the deva realm which is significantly more powerful then the other bodies.
So let's start with Naruto vs Deva realm.
In my opinion their fight starts on that page. Naruto does not have sage mode however he does have Katsu, he knows that Deva realm is a puppet and most importantly he knows of the 5 second rule the Deva realm has. However the real advantage he has here is that Deva isn't trying to kill him
Deva starts out by going for Pa. Here is Naruto's first mistake. He doesn't take advantage of the opening.
And falls flat on his face. Naruto lets his anger get the best of him at this point. He is then surprised that Pain would throw the frog at him...
I think this page captures Naruto vs Deva realm nicely. Basically Naruto got raped with little effort from Pain.
Some things to take away from this. Notice that Deva realm is spamming ST. This is his normal fighting style and it works out pretty well.
Now we all know what happens next. Through the magic of the Kyuubi + Yondaime this happens.
Naruto is in sage mode and Nagato is looking dead. So at this point we get to watch the plot shit all over Nagato. Yay PNJ.
Now what's wrong here? Deva realm isn't spamming ST... He isn't using his abilities at all here... And he gets raped for it.
Naruto uses double FRS to take advantage of the 5 second rule. (Great move but how did he do it? It takes 2 clones to make a single FRS or more specifically 5 hands. Naruto only had 2 clones out meaning he had 6 hands to take advantage of. It is obvious he could make 1 FRS but how did he make the second with only 1 hand?)
At this point he is out of sage chakra. And as it turns out he has placed two clones right where Deva realm was earlier. Convenient.
But useless. Without Sage mode Deva realm's taijutsu outclasses Naruto's.
Take not that Deva realm can't stand at this point because of exhaustion.
Now over that distance you'd think he would be able to dodge an incoming person. But that's Naruto for you...
He was too tired to dodge... Shit finish to be honest but whatever. Naruto is a chakra beast so why not take advantage of it? (Naruto needs to consider getting some new pants.)
But that is the reason why I have a low opinion of Pain. He can't dodge nor use counter attacks against people if he doesn't have ST. (Didn't kishi go over this? Or did he forget why the sharingan was needed for chidori?)
So to summarize I'd like you to consider the following points.
1. Kakashi doesn't have the same chakra issues he once had.
Raikiri count 4
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Wolf thing
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lightning clone
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Kumai 2
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And that nail he removed.
This is a long way from Part one Kakashi who could only perform 4 raikiries a day
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2. Kakashi got trolled by Kishi... It was bullshit that he lost to Deva realm. However even if it was a loss valuable information was gained. Information which ended up being the reason why Naruto ultimately won.
And even with Kishi's trolling it was still a good fight. Kakashi showed off how clever he was by outsmarting Nagato almost every step of the fight.
3. Naruto was fighting a man with a collapsed lung or something along those lines.
The entire reason why Pain lost was that Nagato could not maintain the Jutsu. After all he had fought Konoha + Kakashi + kyuubi before he had his final match with Naruto.
In my opinion Kakashi outperformed Naruto. And considering that he can now pick off nails flying at his face with Kumai I think that he is stronger then Naruto.
Kakashi vs Pain
So the setup is that it's Kakashi vs Deva realm. Both are fresh. Kakashi has no knowledge of Pain's abilities.
You must be registered for see links
And we begin with Kakashi starting to learn about Deva realm's ability. Which is smart. A shinobi shouldn't just dive in not knowing what his enemy is capable of. One could say that discovering your enemies abilities is half the battle.
You must be registered for see links
Now let's be fair. Whatever was going on off screen Kakashi clearly was taking one both bodies and by the looks of it he was winning as well.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Kakashi had been using a replacement the entire time and also had a good sniping position to pick off both bodies using Kumai there. Or at the very least being able to pick off the deva realm. However Kakashi got reinforcements.
Now at this point people might bitch that it wasn't actually Kakashi doing the fighting all alone. (Yes but Naruto also got to go 1 on 1 with Deva realm Kakashi was fighting two bodies at the same time)
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Now Kakashi doesn't know the exact interval but he knows it's there. So he sets up a trap for Deva realm.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
At this point I'd like to point out that Deva realm should have been killed and that there is no reason that this didn't happen.
You must be registered for see links
If they can get chains why the **** can't they get the ones that rip people to shreds, that would have been perfect here. But plot does not permit that Deva realm dies yet. (Although it would have been a much more becoming death the the one he got.)
But whatever it was a trap after all and let's play it through.
You must be registered for see links
note that there is no indication that robo realm is anywhere near deva realm.
You must be registered for see links
But somehow he manages to get in the way. Kishi is trolling my fandom here...
And then Kakashi decides to start removing building suplies instead of Deva realm with his MS... Whatever Naruto's turn at bat.
For the sake or arguement I will ignore the first 5 Pain bodies Naruto killed. The reason is that Nagato at the time did not have enough chakra to maintain all of the bodies. That and Kakashi's fight was against the deva realm which is significantly more powerful then the other bodies.
So let's start with Naruto vs Deva realm.
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In my opinion their fight starts on that page. Naruto does not have sage mode however he does have Katsu, he knows that Deva realm is a puppet and most importantly he knows of the 5 second rule the Deva realm has. However the real advantage he has here is that Deva isn't trying to kill him
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Deva starts out by going for Pa. Here is Naruto's first mistake. He doesn't take advantage of the opening.
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And falls flat on his face. Naruto lets his anger get the best of him at this point. He is then surprised that Pain would throw the frog at him...
You must be registered for see links
I think this page captures Naruto vs Deva realm nicely. Basically Naruto got raped with little effort from Pain.
Some things to take away from this. Notice that Deva realm is spamming ST. This is his normal fighting style and it works out pretty well.
Now we all know what happens next. Through the magic of the Kyuubi + Yondaime this happens.
You must be registered for see links
Naruto is in sage mode and Nagato is looking dead. So at this point we get to watch the plot shit all over Nagato. Yay PNJ.
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Now what's wrong here? Deva realm isn't spamming ST... He isn't using his abilities at all here... And he gets raped for it.
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Naruto uses double FRS to take advantage of the 5 second rule. (Great move but how did he do it? It takes 2 clones to make a single FRS or more specifically 5 hands. Naruto only had 2 clones out meaning he had 6 hands to take advantage of. It is obvious he could make 1 FRS but how did he make the second with only 1 hand?)
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At this point he is out of sage chakra. And as it turns out he has placed two clones right where Deva realm was earlier. Convenient.
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But useless. Without Sage mode Deva realm's taijutsu outclasses Naruto's.
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Take not that Deva realm can't stand at this point because of exhaustion.
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Now over that distance you'd think he would be able to dodge an incoming person. But that's Naruto for you...
He was too tired to dodge... Shit finish to be honest but whatever. Naruto is a chakra beast so why not take advantage of it? (Naruto needs to consider getting some new pants.)
But that is the reason why I have a low opinion of Pain. He can't dodge nor use counter attacks against people if he doesn't have ST. (Didn't kishi go over this? Or did he forget why the sharingan was needed for chidori?)