Kakashi vs Minato

[Lariatoo]

Location: Forest of Death
Distance: 35 meters
Intel: Manga
Conditions: War Arc Kakashi. Minatobwill only be able to summon Pain Arc Gamakichi.
Restrictions:
For Kakashi: Kamui. Hagoromo chakra
For Minato: Kurama. FTG. Sage Mode.

Scenario 2: Minato cab acess Sage Mode and summon Pain Arc Gamahiro as well.

 

[Selan]

If you take off their respective trump cards, MS with Kamui for Kakashi and Hiraishin for Minato, Kakashi is definitely above the Fourth. He has comparable physical speed and same, if not better, reflexes, he is smarter and a lot more complete and versatile. Minato is fast, smart and has fuuinjutsu and ninjutsu (Rasengan, Kuchiyose, Kage Bunshin) skills, but without Hiraishin he is really not that beastly. Hiraishin is what makes him really strong. Kakashi on the other part has the 3T Sharingan with precognition, jutsu copying and genjutsu, is a Raiton master who is fast and skilled in taijutsu and enhances his CQC with Raikiri in his hands and weapons and the Sharingan precognition, he is a very good user of Suiton and Doton ninjutsu, can use Rasengan too and copy Minato's, has things like Raiden and Raijuu Tsuiga, it's a far better user of trickery and clones than Minato and so on.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

If you take off their respective trump cards, MS with Kamui for Kakashi and Hiraishin for Minato, Kakashi is definitely above the Fourth. He has comparable physical speed and same, if not better, reflexes, he is smarter and a lot more complete and versatile. Minato is fast, smart and has fuuinjutsu and ninjutsu (Rasengan, Kuchiyose, Kage Bunshin) skills, but without Hiraishin he is really not that beastly. Hiraishin is what makes him really strong. Kakashi on the other part has the 3T Sharingan with precognition, jutsu copying and genjutsu, is a Raiton master who is fast and skilled in taijutsu and enhances his CQC with Raikiri in his hands and weapons and the Sharingan precognition, he is a very good user of Suiton and Doton ninjutsu, can use Rasengan too and copy Minato's, has things like Raiden and Raijuu Tsuiga, it's a far better user of trickery and clones than Minato and so on.

Kakashi's physical speed is far under that of minato.

And Minato had shown to be smarter than him.

 

[LuckyMan]

> Say's Kakashi has better reflexes than Minato.

> Kakashi can't even evade Susanoo arrows.

> Raikage can evade Susanoo arrows.

> Minatos reflexes are better than Raikages.

> Legit.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Give Minato Sage Mode and this turns in to a better fight.

Minato without it or FTG or any useful toad summonings is going to get beat, and beat pretty badly at that. Rasengan and Minato's base speed isn't beating War Arc Kakashi, kamui or no kamui.

 

[LuckyMan]

Give Minato Sage Mode and this turns in to a better fight.

Minato without it or FTG or any useful toad summonings is going to get beat, and beat pretty badly at that. Rasengan and Minato's base speed isn't beating War Arc Kakashi, kamui or no kamui.

Pretty badly? What's that to you, low or neg difficulty? I'm interested now.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Pretty badly? What's that to you, low or neg difficulty? I'm interested now.

Low-ish. Minato's intelligence would keep him alive for a while, but there's only so much you can do with rasengan and being fast, which Kakashi has 100% knowledge on both things(with intelligence that rivals if not surpasses Minato), where as Minato is clueless to a lot of Kakashi's abilities given he died 16 years ago/Kakashi had 16 years to develop new techniques and the like.

And I'm really not sure what Kichi's use is here. He's a small(compared to Bunta/Ken/Hiro) toad with no feats in the Pain Arc other than carrying Tsunade away from danger. He's small enough to where a single raiton infused kunai probably ends him, among other things.

Kakashi's OP chakra reserves, sharingan precog, and overall superior everything outside of foot speed(which even then we really didn't get to see much of Minato using foot speed in battle, and is countered with precog/Kakashi's reaction abilities) to this retardedly nerfed Minato. Not to mention, raikiri gives Kakashi quite the speed boost himself, matching Gai's Asa Kujaku punches in speed.

Give him Sage Mode and he can at least compete in taijutsu with Kakashi, although I still think Kakashi holds the overall edge in that fight, but not by nearly as much as he does here.

 

[Lariatoo]

Give Minato Sage Mode and this turns in to a better fight.

Minato without it or FTG or any useful toad summonings is going to get beat, and beat pretty badly at that. Rasengan and Minato's base speed isn't beating War Arc Kakashi, kamui or no kamui.

Added a second scenario then

 

[EliteKakashi]

Added a second scenario then

With SM and a giant summon to worry about it definitely gets a lot harder to deal with. Kakashi would need to deal with Hiro quickly, not because Hiro is necessarily an issue to Kakashi by himself, but he could get in the way and hinder him trying to fight Minato. The issue here for Minato/Hiro, though, is that Kakashi's bunshin feints should allow him to stall Minato just long enough to get rid of Hiro with Raiden, or using Raiju Tsuiga to stun him(which it's noted in the databook to be able to do) then throwing a raiton kunai through his brain.

Then SM Minato vs Kakashi becomes interesting, and while it'll let Minato compete with Kakashi for a while, Minato himself notes he can't stay in SM long:

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This scenario turns the fight in to a high end mid-ish to low end high-ish difficulty win for Kakashi.

 

[LuckyMan]

Kakashi's OP chakra reserves, sharingan precog, and overall superior everything outside of foot speed(which even then we really didn't get to see much of Minato using foot speed in battle, and is countered with precog/Kakashi's reaction abilities) to this retardedly nerfed Minato. Not to mention, raikiri gives Kakashi quite the speed boost himself, matching Gai's Asa Kujaku punches in speed.

Give him Sage Mode and he can at least compete in taijutsu with Kakashi, although I still think Kakashi holds the overall edge in that fight, but not by nearly as much as he does here.

Cut out the stuff that didn't matter because I'm on a phone ATM but you can expect full replies later today.

Kakashi is not faster than Minato. Not in movement speed, reaction speed, hand speed, or anything that has to do with speed. There's not a piece of evidence that even begins to support it. I can't post links ATM but there's panels of Minato throwing his kunai to his mark before Kakashi can complete a Kamui warp, and there's also a panel of him throwing a Kunai behind V2 Ay when his fist was on his nose so fast we didn't even see it. That far eclipses anything Kakashi has in the reaction and hand speed category. Far. Way far.

Minatos chakra is way above Kakashis. Kakashi has admitted on several occasions he has little chakra and dislikes using shadow clones because of the fact. Minato is also a sage, and one needs extreme chakra levels for that. FTG takes a shitload of chakra. So much it takes all 3 of Minatos personal guards to preform it and Minato spams it like nothing in battles. Even his clones with only half his power can do it. The size of what he teleports dictates how much chakra he uses. Teleports Full Kurama in base. Teleports Max Jubi Dams in base, something that's at least 15x Kuramas size. His standard Rasengans are 3x the size of Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Naruto. There's no debate on who would outlast who.

That's it. I can't go deep into specifics but Kakashi gets whooped by Minatos speed and stamina. Literally his whole arsenal is non factor. Everything he has is evade. He gets raped in CQC hard regardless of precog. His clones are countered by superior clones.

Don't expect a reply until later today. Going to work ATM and won't be back until tonight.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Cut out the stuff that didn't matter because I'm on a phone ATM but you can expect full replies later today.

Kakashi is not faster than Minato. Not in movement speed, reaction speed, hand speed, or anything that has to do with speed. There's not a piece of evidence that even begins to support it. I can't post links ATM but there's panels of Minato throwing his kunai to his mark before Kakashi can complete a Kamui warp, and there's also a panel of him throwing a Kunai behind V2 Ay when his fist was on his nose so fast we didn't even see it. That far eclipses anything Kakashi has in the reaction and hand speed category. Far. Way far.

I never said Kakashi was faster, so I'm not even sure what this paragraph is supposed to be for.

Minatos chakra is way above Kakashis. Kakashi has admitted on several occasions he has little chakra and dislikes using shadow clones because of the fact. Minato is also a sage, and one needs extreme chakra levels for that. FTG takes a shitload of chakra. So much it takes all 3 of Minatos personal guards to preform it and Minato spams it like nothing in battles. Even his clones with only half his power can do it. The size of what he teleports dictates how much chakra he uses. Teleports Full Kurama in base. Teleports Max Jubi Dams in base, something that's at least 15x Kuramas size. His standard Rasengans are 3x the size of Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Naruto. There's no debate on who would outlast who.

I never said it was about who was outlasting who. I simply stated Kakashi has chakra reserves to do as he pleases in this fight. 8 raikiri, 5 kamui, 2 shadow clones and a doton wall. So Kakashi split his chakra in half..twice..but still used 8 raikiri, 5 kamui and a doton wall on top of that before he needed any chakra from Kurama.

So without 5 kamui draining him(which is well noted to drain him severely more than any other technique in his arsenal), Kakashi has chakra for days. Does it surpass Minato's? Nope. But the point with this is Kakashi has the chakra to use everything in his arsenal without any worry whatsoever of running out of stamina.

That's it. I can't go deep into specifics but Kakashi gets whooped by Minatos speed and stamina. Literally his whole arsenal is non factor. Everything he has is evade. He gets raped in CQC hard regardless of precog. His clones are countered by superior clones.

Don't expect a reply until later today. Going to work ATM and won't be back until tonight.

Minato's speed isn't going to kill Kakashi, and certainly isn't going to "whoop" him.

Minato in scenario 1 is beaten badly.

Scenario 2 he puts up quite the fight but still loses.

I also lol @ raped in CQC when Minato has no CQC feats and Kakashi is one of the greatest CQC fighters in the manga.

Kakashi isn't using clones to fight for him. He's using them for traps. Minato hits a raiton kage bunshin and it's game over.

 

[Eternal Sage]

How does Kakashi avoid getting blitzed though?

 

[EliteKakashi]

How does Kakashi avoid getting blitzed though?

Full knowledge of Minato's speed > 35 meters > bunshin feint/sharingan precog/travel underground/meet him straight up with raikiri.

 

[Eternal Sage]

Full knowledge of Minato's speed > 35 meters > bunshin feint/sharingan precog/travel underground/meet him straight up with raikiri.

Hmmm. Fair enough. I don't think he can survive once he gets marked, but Minato will have trouble getting marked in the first place

 

[EliteKakashi]

Hmmm. Fair enough. I don't think he can survive once he gets marked, but Minato will have trouble getting marked in the first place

FTG is restricted.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Lol at Kakashi not getting blitzed. "Praised as the greatest in God like speed amongst all shinobi". Not only is minatos shunshin compared to the likes of kcm Naruto multiple times (and even paralleled with BM Naruto at one point). The databook says it's on par with that of Raikage's Lightning chakra mode. Minatos hand speed is way above anything Kakasho can comprehend, he gets wrecked in cqc. Able to toss a kunai above v2 raikages head from point blank range is a greater feat than anything Kakashi has ever accomplished. Without kamui he doesn't stand a ghost of a chance.

Ftg isn't needed against Kakashi. Not even rasengan. Shunshin and shadow clones are more than enough. And lol at whoever said Kakashi has large chakra reserves, Minato takes a big fat dump on kakashis chakra. Minatos stamina is far greater. Whoever thinks Minato needs sage mode against Kakashi is deluded.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Lol at Kakashi not getting blitzed. "Praised as the greatest in God like speed amongst all shinobi". Not only is minatos shunshin compared to the likes of kcm Naruto multiple times (and even paralleled with BM Naruto at one point). The databook says it's on par with that of Raikage's Lightning chakra mode. Minatos hand speed is way above anything Kakasho can comprehend, he gets wrecked in cqc. Able to toss a kunai above v2 raikages head from point blank range is a greater feat than anything Kakashi has ever accomplished. Without kamui he doesn't stand a ghost of a chance.

Ftg isn't needed against Kakashi. Not even rasengan. Shunshin and shadow clones are more than enough. And lol at whoever said Kakashi has large chakra reserves, Minato takes a big fat dump on kakashis chakra. Minatos stamina is far greater. Whoever thinks Minato needs sage mode against Kakashi is deluded.

What's the worst is people think high level ninja in this manga are just going to be blitzed and that be the end of it.

When that's never, ever going to be the case and is why Kumogakure didn't rule the ninja world with Ay and his Father just blitzing everyone.(inb4 OMG PLOT)

War Arc Kakashi isn't losing to an FTG-less, SM-less, toad summon-less(might as well be) Minato.

That's dumb, and you should honestly feel dumb for thinking that.

It'd be as dumb as me saying that in every fight Kakashi uses his bunshin feints to end every single fight ever with a raiton kage bunshin to stun his opponent then kills them with raikiri while they're stunned, because intelligent fighters obviously just blitz their opponent right off with no means of defense against their opponent they're lacking in knowledge on.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Kakashi isn't gonna get outright blitzed. But none of Kakashi's tricks are touching minato. His elementals are too slow, his feints yield no returns. And his clones get matched by clones.

 

[Gold Lightning]

What's the worst is people think high level ninja in this manga are just going to be blitzed and that be the end of it.

When that's never, ever going to be the case and is why Kumogakure didn't rule the ninja world with Ay and his Father just blitzing everyone.(inb4 OMG PLOT)

War Arc Kakashi isn't losing to an FTG-less, SM-less, toad summon-less(might as well be) Minato.

That's dumb, and you should honestly feel dumb for thinking that.

It'd be as dumb as me saying that in every fight Kakashi uses his bunshin feints to end every single fight ever with a raiton kage bunshin to stun his opponent then kills them with raikiri while they're stunned, because intelligent fighters obviously just blitz their opponent right off with no means of defense against their opponent they're lacking in knowledge on.

Minato faced MS Obito and obliterated him in more ore an 2 minutes. Kamui less Kakashi isn't even on Ms Obito's level (Hashirama cells, Mangekyou, superior space time ninjutsu, direct training from Madara Uchiha himself). And look what happened.

Everything you said is irrelevant, because Minato proves you wrong canonically by owning top tiers. Yes top tiers can be blitzed/one shotted/fodderized. Itachi did it to Orochimaru, Bee did it to Sasuke, Gai did it to Kisame (no low diff but it was short work), and Minato did it to Obito. Minato blitzed him twice and didn't receive a single bit of damage. Now keep in mind, that was Minato with 0 Intel and knowledge, in a hurry and under pressure. Now image if he had Intel and all the time in the world, without any distractions, it would have been a slaughter.

Your Raikage point is silly. How many people has Ay faced in battle that we know of for you to even make a statement(he was unable to blitz Obito, Madara and kcm Naruto, all of which are greater than 3 tomoe Kakashi)? Did Minato not almost one shot Ay? If not for killer bee, he would have. Minatos fights don't last long, either seconds or couple minutes at most. Nor is tomoe Kakashi even remotely as strong as Ay or MS Obito, both of which Minato handled without struggle.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Itachi used genjutsu, he didn't blitz Orochimaru. Bee and Sasuke fought each other, he didn't blitz him. Gai hit Kisame with Hirudora, he didn't blitz him. The only "blitz" in your scenario might be Kisame getting hit by 6th Gate Gai, but it was a 30% Kisame that was just trying to buy time and was completely taken off guard by Gai's gates, having no idea what to expect.

And you're using Minato's FTG feats/fights to try and argue here, which is all 100% irrelevant, because the OP restricts FTG. The only reason he beat Ay was FTG. The only reason he beat Obito was FTG.

FTG is not a factor here.